General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon? Rss Feed  
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2012-02-04 10:59 AM

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Subject: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

Hi,

Can you recommend any training plan for me.   I would like to do a half marathon in March or April and a few  Oly triathlons in the summer or even in September. I finished my first Oly tri last June.

Since running is my weakest sport I decided to concentrate on running now. In November I started training for a half marathon. I was planning to do one on February 25, but I had problems with my ankles and also a back muscle spasm so I have not done much in the last three weeks.

I feel injury free now , but I'm not sure what to do.   I'm looking for a training plan with two days off if it's possible. My body does not really recover quickly. I found that with two days off a week I train harder and my performance is much better.  Also I often cannot sleep and I need an extra day a week just to catch up on sleep.

As soon I get over a cold I will start following a half=marathon training plan with three runs a week. One long run, one tempo run and a speed work. If I feel rested I can always do an extra run a week.I also swim once a week, take a spin class once a week, lift and do balance/core excesizes three times a week. 

Since biking is my strongest sport I do not worry about it for now, but it would be nice to do a 50 or 100 -mile bike ride in the spring. I would also have to start training for it.

Should I change my routine now or should I finish my half marathon and then start training for my tris? Do you have any suggestions? I generally build endurance quickly, but speed is my problem. On my long slow runs, I often feel like I can go forever. Often planned 5-6 mile runs became 8-10 mile runs , just because I felt good.

When I do 400m speed work on the track I do 4-6 400m . My time is 1.30 per 400m. It's a very intense training session for me. I usually need a day off to recover after this. I  never done a running speed workout before in my life and I'm 38. In November last year I started doing a speed work for the first time in my life.

I can probably train 10-12 hours a week. 6 hours on the weekends plus 2 hours three times a week. What would be the best training plan for me ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



2012-02-04 12:57 PM
in reply to: #4029292

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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

I would follow a 1/2 Mary plan that has 3-4 runs a week.  On the days you don't run, I would swim.  Maybe take 1 or 2 days a week to ride the bike.  Some days when you don't run you might consider a swim/bike brick type workout.

If you swim in the evening that might help you to get to sleep easier.

2012-02-04 8:24 PM
in reply to: #4029292

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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?
slonce5 - 2012-02-04 11:59 AM

I feel injury free now , but I'm not sure what to do.   I'm looking for a training plan with two days off if it's possible. My body does not really recover quickly. I found that with two days off a week I train harder and my performance is much better.  [...]

When I do 400m speed work on the track I do 4-6 400m . My time is 1.30 per 400m. It's a very intense training session for me. I usually need a day off to recover after this. I  never done a running speed workout before in my life and I'm 38. In November last year I started doing a speed work for the first time in my life.

I would recommend to change your approach. With the level of running intensity that you're talking about, coupled with what sounds like a limited base of running mileage, it's perhaps no surprise that you feel the need for multiple days to recover, or that you recently got injured. Train in a way that allows you to train the next day. For the time being, this would mean for running that you would get rid of the track workouts, and forget about going hard on your continuous runs. Just run steady, and as often as possible. Avoid having any individual run account for more than one third of your weekly mileage. This kind of run training is highly effective, and it can also build the resilience that you'll need to safely undertake more intense run training in the future. Feel free to hammer the bike and swim workouts, as they're less likely to do any damage (as long as your bike fit is good). 

2012-02-04 8:28 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

Train for a HIM. If you don't have time, do the best you can with the bike and swim but make sure you do the runs.

I agree with what Colin said - you may be going too hard with the limited base you have.

2012-02-04 8:40 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

I reccomend you check out a couple books at your local library on running. When I started running I read all kinds of books on the subject. You'll get the most information. You'll also come to find out many concepts that have/have not worked for you through personal experience. Rather than go through alot of trial and error and getting many different anwers from many people, and may still not know how to go about it the best way. In all the running question ever asked in BT I have already encountered those same asnwers in running books. I'm not taking away from people's advice, but you'll get a ton of opinions and who will you follow.

If you need reccomendations on running books go to amazon.com and read through some reviews. They have excellent material. I don't think you can go wrong with that. Good luck.

2012-02-04 9:30 PM
in reply to: #4029831

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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?
Thanks for advice. Can you improve speed without a track/speed work? It  probably would take a long time to improve time without speed work. My goal is to finish a half in two hours.


2012-02-04 10:20 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

slonce5 - 2012-02-04 10:30 PM Thanks for advice. Can you improve speed without a track/speed work? It  probably would take a long time to improve time without speed work. My goal is to finish a half in two hours.

Yes, you can get fairly quick without track/speed work. And -- just as important -- you can't get quick if you keep getting injured. You can definitely meet your HM goal time off a diet of steady mileage. Run often, run sensibly, (... and be light if that's still an issue for you).

Like others here on BT I've been surprised at how fast one can go with consistent steady running and without speed work. Last year I ran a 1:24 HM and a 18:01 5k off zero speed work all year. Just steady miles. (Plenty of intensity on the bike, though.) The previous year I had tried to do too much intensity too soon (mistakenly thinking I could get away with what I did as a 20-year old), and I lost loads of time to injuries. Based on advice that I read here, I capitulated to the plan of running every day, all steady, and very gradually building mileage. At first I was doing a lot of really short 10-minute runs, and then built from there. The plan was based loosely on the BarryP 1-2-3 plan from slowtwitch.com. A number of us on BT have followed this approach with success. I have recently started to include some faster running into my training, and now I'm finding that my body can handle it much better, thanks to months of running every day (building to around 40 mpw).

Good luck with your HM preparation.

2012-02-04 11:18 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?
Similar situation last fall for me. I would say to focus on the run until the HM race, while doing maintenance work for swim and bike. Then, after you recover from the HM, switch to tri training with a bike-swim focus. For a half marathon you really should be running more than three days a week, esp. if you haven't been running that long and don't have a good base of fitness. Four as a minimum, five would be better; many folks swear by six (the 3-2-1 plan). I prefer five, but I've been running for 32 years! Really only one day needs to be any kind of "speedwork", and even then, you should build a base before you start that. It doesn't have to be track intervals; could be fartlek or tempo running on a road or trail, or even just throwing in 30 seconds of strides every 5-10 minutes to start. The track workout you describe is more suitable for an experienced runner training for a 5K race; not necessary and inadvisable for the HM distance. As for maintenance, maybe 1-2 swims and 1-2 bikes per week, depending on time. Swims don't typically take much out of you for running; I've found that hard biking does. You might want to just cut back to a longer, easy ride when your run training gets intense. Swimming, even hard, is great for recovery from long runs, though.
2012-02-05 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

Hi,

Very interesting. I would like to try this approach.  I know a guy who has been running every day for the last 20 or 20 years. Heis in his 60 's, still pretty  and I think injury free.He is in my running club, I have to talk to him more.

The question is where to start. I'm looking at phase 1 of 16 week program and I do not think that have to start  in week 1. I run about 15 miles a week now. I do not think that I would be tired to do 15 minutes of running 6 times a week.

Also what pace should I keep. He writes that these runs should be kept at 65-80% of maximum HR. I have never measured my max but my HR can go up to 199. ( I wore  a halt  monitor for 24 hours a month ago and it registered 199 during one run.) I think if I kept  my HR in 150 which would be 0.75% of 199 it would be ok.

2012-02-05 1:27 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?
I have not read many books about running, but I do read many articles  online. I'm also a member of a runners club with many experienced and excellent members.    I have learn a lot. But  there are so many different theories and   approaches and sometimes they conflict with each other.
2012-02-05 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

I'm just curious what is the theory behind the approach that every day running at kind of comfortable  pace improves speed?     It is hard to imagine that without sprint and speed work the body will get used to and start feeling comfortable to run fast.  

For example if a someone runs at 9:30 pace how the body will start running and adapt  to 7:30 or 7:00 without ever experiencing this type of speed?



2012-02-05 3:02 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?
slonce5 - 2012-02-05 2:33 PM

I'm just curious what is the theory behind the approach that every day running at kind of comfortable  pace improves speed?     It is hard to imagine that without sprint and speed work the body will get used to and start feeling comfortable to run fast.  

For example if a someone runs at 9:30 pace how the body will start running and adapt  to 7:30 or 7:00 without ever experiencing this type of speed?

Yes, it's a little counterintuitive. Hence my initial resistance to drinking the Kool Aid. And it doesn't do everything, but it goes a hell of a long way. Some relevant factors are:

-- Plenty of aerobic adaptations occur even at steady running paces
-- Building resilience to sustained pounding is very beneficial for running performance, and this happens a lot at steady paces
-- Steady running improves running efficiency, so that the same pace gets to feel easier over time, or the steady pace increases
-- This type of training makes it feasible to run often; more intense training does not; that allows for greater benefits
-- If your body is not yet ready for the beating that it takes from more intense running, then it doesn't matter how effective high intensity training is, as you'll be injured before you get to reap the rewards

As one of the running gurus on here likes to say: speed work is the icing on the cake, but you've gotta have a cake first.



Edited by colinphillips 2012-02-05 3:03 PM
2012-02-05 3:12 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?

I cannot wait to get over my cold to try this technique. Bythe way I ran 2 miles yesterday with the cold. It was not so bad. 

I'm not sure if you read my previous post by do you have any suggestions where and what pace should I start training like this?

2012-02-05 7:39 PM
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Subject: RE: How should I train for Oly and Half Marathon?
slonce5 - 2012-02-05 4:12 PM

I cannot wait to get over my cold to try this technique. Bythe way I ran 2 miles yesterday with the cold. It was not so bad. 

I'm not sure if you read my previous post by do you have any suggestions where and what pace should I start training like this?

Don't sweat the paces and HR values too much. Run at a pace that you would describe as 'comfortable', 'conversational', or 'could go out and do it again right away'. Some days this will turn out to be a bit quicker, some days it will turn out to be a bit slower, but don't worry about the day-to-day fluctuations. It's the long-term trend that really matters. But for some guidelines on paces you could do a lot worse than starting with the McMillan Calculator.

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