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2012-02-13 4:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama

bryancd - 2012-02-13 1:21 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 12:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.
Not a magical switch, but the decrease in athletic perfromance takes an appreciable nose dive for men in the early 40's. I'm just trying to hang on myself. It's a physiological fact, ask Dr. Fred D. here on the board.

Yes, obviously age plays a huge factor in athletic performance.  But take yourself as an example. You're not exactly hanging it up or failing to improve post 40. A lot of other factors play a role too, whether that's TRAINING age, general health and motivation etc.

That said, his training age is pretty OLD, too!



2012-02-13 5:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
powerman - 2012-02-13 3:02 PM

ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 12:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.

The fact is he CAN'T win the TDF again because he is too old. He proved that one last year. Lance most certainly could have won Kona in his prime... it remains to be seen if he can now... due to his age. Sorry it bugs you, but it is a medical fact, the older you get, the less you perform, the less you recover in time.

Yes, I realize that, I don't think he's going to be racing Kona as a pro at age 60. I just think people put a lot of limits on themselves and others based on age. Maybe he can do top ten at Kona, maybe he can't, but either way there are a lot of other factors at play besides being 40 years old.

2012-02-13 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
saltman95 - 2012-02-13 3:31 PM

Agree, no question his clock is ticking.  I am just saying, the clock doesn't appear to have stopped just yet.

1 week ago, I wouldn't have thought a Kona win remotely possible.

He laid down a good one. Only he knows how much reserve he had on the bike and what he had left for the run. I'm sure a few pros are not happy at the prospect of an "unknown" threat entering the mix.

2012-02-13 5:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 4:02 PM
powerman - 2012-02-13 3:02 PM

ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 12:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.

The fact is he CAN'T win the TDF again because he is too old. He proved that one last year. Lance most certainly could have won Kona in his prime... it remains to be seen if he can now... due to his age. Sorry it bugs you, but it is a medical fact, the older you get, the less you perform, the less you recover in time.

Yes, I realize that, I don't think he's going to be racing Kona as a pro at age 60. I just think people put a lot of limits on themselves and others based on age. Maybe he can do top ten at Kona, maybe he can't, but either way there are a lot of other factors at play besides being 40 years old.

I understand... obviously he is not going to spontaneously combust on the start line... but winning and competeing are two different things. People can compete forever, but Lance can't win forever and that is due to age. And Lance has never been the "compete" type... he is certainly a "win" guy. But obviously, that is the only Lance we have known. We may learn a new one after his pro days are over and he "competes" for the rest of his life with joy, and toes the line like the rest of us for the fight.

Wouldn't that be funny a bunch of AGers standing around at 55 and here comes Lance.... bunch of grumpy old men pissed they have no shot at first... "why did he have to come here"!

2012-02-13 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 3:59 PM

bryancd - 2012-02-13 1:21 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 12:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.
Not a magical switch, but the decrease in athletic perfromance takes an appreciable nose dive for men in the early 40's. I'm just trying to hang on myself. It's a physiological fact, ask Dr. Fred D. here on the board.

Yes, obviously age plays a huge factor in athletic performance.  But take yourself as an example. You're not exactly hanging it up or failing to improve post 40. A lot of other factors play a role too, whether that's TRAINING age, general health and motivation etc.

That said, his training age is pretty OLD, too!



Actually in my case I think it also has to do with my "athletic age". I got into the sport later in life and don't have the same mileage on me yet, and that makes a difference as well.
2012-02-13 5:52 PM
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2012-02-13 5:55 PM
in reply to: #4045665

Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama

Fred D - 2012-02-13 12:52 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 2:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.
It seriously bugs you? Really?

Way to stir the pot Fred...

2012-02-13 6:02 PM
in reply to: #4045674

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
tri808 - 2012-02-13 4:55 PM

Fred D - 2012-02-13 12:52 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 2:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.
It seriously bugs you? Really?

Way to stir the pot Fred...



Don't mind him, he had PRP therapy injections today, that will make anyone crabby.
2012-02-13 6:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
saltman95 - 2012-02-13 4:05 PM

Here is another interesting question:

Who is the best American long course triathlete today?

Potts, Reed, Lieto, Lovato.......Armstrong??

This is a very interesting question. Which long course though? There is a significant difference between the two. At 70.3, Lance is definitely in the mix now. I wouldn't put him out front yet because it's still only one race whereas the other guys have some body of work. I think he's entirely capable though. He's a much better tactician than people realized before. You don't win as much as he has without it. He also knows what he wants. He didn't try mixing it up with someone on the TdF unless there was a tactical advantage, so it shouldn't be a surprise (at least not that much) that he wasn't going to gun it and try to blow everyone away on the bike. Especially in the later TdF wins, there were very few stage wins or other points that he picked up. Everything was geared towards the goal of the yellow jersey.

Wish I wasn't busy over the weekend and could have said something about a prediction. His results really didn't surprise me, but at the same time it was really exciting to see him do it. I wouldn't have given an exact time or place, but more like within 5 minutes of the winner.

2012-02-13 6:39 PM
in reply to: #4045665

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama

Fred D - 2012-02-13 5:52 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 2:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.
It seriously bugs you? Really?

 

Not really, since I'm a long way from 40 personally Laughing

2012-02-13 6:43 PM
in reply to: #4045469

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
saltman95 - 2012-02-13 11:05 PM

Here is another interesting question:

Who is the best American long course triathlete today?

Potts, Reed, Lieto, Lovato.......Armstrong??

C'mon, seriously?



2012-02-13 6:54 PM
in reply to: #4045653

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
bryancd - 2012-02-13 5:43 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 3:59 PM

bryancd - 2012-02-13 1:21 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 12:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.
Not a magical switch, but the decrease in athletic perfromance takes an appreciable nose dive for men in the early 40's. I'm just trying to hang on myself. It's a physiological fact, ask Dr. Fred D. here on the board.

Yes, obviously age plays a huge factor in athletic performance.  But take yourself as an example. You're not exactly hanging it up or failing to improve post 40. A lot of other factors play a role too, whether that's TRAINING age, general health and motivation etc.

That said, his training age is pretty OLD, too!

Actually in my case I think it also has to do with my "athletic age". I got into the sport later in life and don't have the same mileage on me yet, and that makes a difference as well.

Yea, athletic age. Thats actually what I meant by training age. The one benefit of starting later in life....Wink



Edited by ATLrunr 2012-02-13 6:55 PM
2012-02-13 8:46 PM
in reply to: #4045469

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
saltman95 - 2012-02-13 4:05 PM

Here is another interesting question:

Who is the best American long course triathlete today?

Potts, Reed, Lieto, Lovato.......Armstrong??

Potts, IMO.  But it sure isn't an easy choice.

2012-02-14 3:43 AM
in reply to: #4045614

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
powerman - 2012-02-13 6:19 PM
ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 4:02 PM
powerman - 2012-02-13 3:02 PM

ATLrunr - 2012-02-13 12:18 PM It seriously bugs me when people say someone can't do xyz because of age. Like there is some magical switch that flips at 40, rendering one incapable of something they may have been able to do before?Anyways, I have no doubts now that LA will get to kona and put on a good show. Probably not win, but def a top 10 contender.

The fact is he CAN'T win the TDF again because he is too old. He proved that one last year. Lance most certainly could have won Kona in his prime... it remains to be seen if he can now... due to his age. Sorry it bugs you, but it is a medical fact, the older you get, the less you perform, the less you recover in time.

Yes, I realize that, I don't think he's going to be racing Kona as a pro at age 60. I just think people put a lot of limits on themselves and others based on age. Maybe he can do top ten at Kona, maybe he can't, but either way there are a lot of other factors at play besides being 40 years old.

I understand... obviously he is not going to spontaneously combust on the start line... but winning and competeing are two different things. People can compete forever, but Lance can't win forever and that is due to age. And Lance has never been the "compete" type... he is certainly a "win" guy. But obviously, that is the only Lance we have known. We may learn a new one after his pro days are over and he "competes" for the rest of his life with joy, and toes the line like the rest of us for the fight.

Wouldn't that be funny a bunch of AGers standing around at 55 and here comes Lance.... bunch of grumpy old men pissed they have no shot at first... "why did he have to come here"!

Kind of like the 55-59 AG when The Man races.
2012-02-14 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
Gladiador - 2012-02-13 6:43 PM
saltman95 - 2012-02-13 11:05 PM

Here is another interesting question:

Who is the best American long course triathlete today?

Potts, Reed, Lieto, Lovato.......Armstrong??

C'mon, seriously?

Yes seriously.  Last year Potts was the top American in Kona, he finished 17th.  No other American was in the top 20.   

2012-02-14 11:39 AM
in reply to: #4035629

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
Just the fact we are debating means he is having an effect on the sport......


2012-02-14 12:43 PM
in reply to: #4046605

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
saltman95 - 2012-02-14 4:55 PM
Gladiador - 2012-02-13 6:43 PM
saltman95 - 2012-02-13 11:05 PM

Here is another interesting question:

Who is the best American long course triathlete today?

Potts, Reed, Lieto, Lovato.......Armstrong??

C'mon, seriously?

Yes seriously.  Last year Potts was the top American in Kona, he finished 17th.  No other American was in the top 20.   

 

No matter the outcome, he is not the one.

I say we put an end on this topic finally Wink

2012-02-15 8:17 PM
in reply to: #4035629

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama

Does anyone find it odd that out of the blue, IM suddenly decides NOT to test the top 3 for PED's at IM Panama, but does random testing on 4-10?  This was unannounced prior to the race, just came up after the race. 

As for whether or not he is helping the sport-I have yet to see an IM race not sell out.  So, from a business standpoint, he can only help if they decide to either A) charge more for entry fees, or B) add more slots than was previously deemed safe.  So, how does that help the age grouper?  Additionally, pros who usually have their hotel and airfare paid by IM "show up bonuses" were paying out of pocket to race that day.  Some have theroized that this was because they wanted to keep pros away from the race.  I'm starting to get a bad feeling about this.

For the record I'm a fan...and I dont care if he did do PED's during the Tour.  I think PED's should be legal, just make it all open.  I worked with a guy who is a total jerk.  When he was on his mood stabilizers, he became easier to work with and was a harder worker.  His work preformance was enhanced.  How is that different?

 

2012-02-16 4:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
Hawaiimike - 2012-02-15 9:17 PM

Does anyone find it odd that out of the blue, IM suddenly decides NOT to test the top 3 for PED's at IM Panama, but does random testing on 4-10?  This was unannounced prior to the race, just came up after the race. 

As for whether or not he is helping the sport-I have yet to see an IM race not sell out.  So, from a business standpoint, he can only help if they decide to either A) charge more for entry fees, or B) add more slots than was previously deemed safe.  So, how does that help the age grouper?  Additionally, pros who usually have their hotel and airfare paid by IM "show up bonuses" were paying out of pocket to race that day.  Some have theroized that this was because they wanted to keep pros away from the race.  I'm starting to get a bad feeling about this.

For the record I'm a fan...and I dont care if he did do PED's during the Tour.  I think PED's should be legal, just make it all open.  I worked with a guy who is a total jerk.  When he was on his mood stabilizers, he became easier to work with and was a harder worker.  His work preformance was enhanced.  How is that different?

 

Do you have a source to verify 1-3 weren't tested, and that 6-10 were? How about verification that any pros who normally receive show up fees were denied? WTC events are not the only races. The fact that most sell out doesn't seem relevant to me, because there are many more triathlons put on by other companies that don't sell out. If anything, increased popularity of the sport would make it easier for other series such as Rev3 or HITS to succeed.
2012-02-16 7:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
TriMyBest - 2012-02-16 4:23 AM
Hawaiimike - 2012-02-15 9:17 PM

Does anyone find it odd that out of the blue, IM suddenly decides NOT to test the top 3 for PED's at IM Panama, but does random testing on 4-10?  This was unannounced prior to the race, just came up after the race. 

As for whether or not he is helping the sport-I have yet to see an IM race not sell out.  So, from a business standpoint, he can only help if they decide to either A) charge more for entry fees, or B) add more slots than was previously deemed safe.  So, how does that help the age grouper?  Additionally, pros who usually have their hotel and airfare paid by IM "show up bonuses" were paying out of pocket to race that day.  Some have theroized that this was because they wanted to keep pros away from the race.  I'm starting to get a bad feeling about this.

For the record I'm a fan...and I dont care if he did do PED's during the Tour.  I think PED's should be legal, just make it all open.  I worked with a guy who is a total jerk.  When he was on his mood stabilizers, he became easier to work with and was a harder worker.  His work preformance was enhanced.  How is that different?

 

Do you have a source to verify 1-3 weren't tested, and that 6-10 were? How about verification that any pros who normally receive show up fees were denied? WTC events are not the only races. The fact that most sell out doesn't seem relevant to me, because there are many more triathlons put on by other companies that don't sell out. If anything, increased popularity of the sport would make it easier for other series such as Rev3 or HITS to succeed.

I agree with this, and have the same questions. This was also a Half IM, not a full. The HIMs do not sell out as frequently or as quickly when they do.

2012-02-16 10:33 AM
in reply to: #4050131

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
Verification for the testing stuff can be found at Rasmus Hennings twitter page.  He finished 5th (i think).  As for the show up bonuses, I can tell you for a fact that Bree Wee and Yvonne Van Vlerken were not given show up bonuses, and I heard through the coconut wireless that Chris Leito did not get one either.   All 3 of them live in Kona.  I live in Kona.  I'll let you figure out how I found out. 


2012-02-16 10:45 AM
in reply to: #4035629

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Subject: RE: Lance is Racing 70.3 Panama
Such a travesty!!!
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