Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics

I guess "aspect" was the wrong word. I was referring to the advantage of automatic rotation you mentioned in the OP. 

A clearer question would be why this arm entry is better suited to OWS while the traditional entry is better for pool swimmers. In other words, if the straight arm presumable leads to a faster OWS time, why wouldn't it also work for a pool swimmer (or would it)?

Thanks for the video!

Janet Evans!

Also, I'm on a slow connex so having a hard time searching and videos take forever, but if you can find the epic TJ Fry swim video, you can see many of the leaders doing a straight-arm recovery, despite it being a very flat swim.

I have a much straighter-arm recovery in the ocean as well--it does help you rotate more (uneven surface means you may have to rotate further to breathe), you can swim over swells instead of crashing into them with your arms, and a wetsuit seems to kind of just make your arm boing out that way.

I was thinking of Janet Evans too.  But she also does some things that would make coaches really shake their heads -- if she wasn't an Olympic champion.

As a pool and open water racer I strongly disagree that there are two distinct stroke types for each type of racing.  I believe that best practices in the pool, where we spend the majority of our training, are also best practices in open water.

The notion of putting your arms in halfway between your head and end point of your reach has largely gone out of fashion, about 8-10 years ago.  The straight arm, maximum reach recovery and set is much more prevalent and generates the most power. The "ride the glide" approach is simply dated, along with drills like finger tip drag and body zipper.  As with all sports, swim training evolves.

As much as possible you should try to emulate your pool swimming in the open water, keeping your head down except to sight/breathe, use a straight arm recovery, etc.  When I focus on these elements in the open water as opposed to some open water style I always swim faster and place better.  

I do totally agree than not crossing your mid line is a critical element of successful swimming.  

I think we also have to be careful comparing ourselves and styles to Evan, Phelps, Yang, etc.  These are one in a billion swimmers.  Evans has sets named after her, the "Janet Evans Set" is standard fare for most AG teams.  Phelps' walls are legendary.  Yang is well on his way to some sort of aquatic immortality.

I get nervous when I read and hear tri coaches preach a one step solution for swimming, such as SPL, or this different type of OW stroke.  The bottom line is, if possible, find a swim coach who is up to date on the latest training techniques who doesn't have a magic formula that only he/she is in possession of.

Jane Evans 800 Olympic Final

Perfect stroke isn't everything.  

It is sort of a hybrid.  It is almost impossible to sustain a true straight arm for more than a few yards/meters.  It requires enormous strength.  High elbow recovery is pretty slow and isn't conducive to a longer recovery and catch.  I was a huge fan of the high elbow when it was all popular but now have switched to the modified straight arm recovery.  It is faster.

Thanks for posting Karen!  I've been swimming a bit more regularly (but less frequently)  than this time last year but I have so much more to work on to just be a MOP triathlon swimmer (it will take a LOT more to be a MOP pure swimmer!). These 'swim thoughts' will help. I've been wondering about my hand entry since I tend to enter further away from my head so I won't worry about that and continue to focus on reaching.  

I just signed up for my 2nd 70.3 race and I hope to improve on my 50 min swim time last year!

So for this modified straight arm recovery, how close to the water is your arm actually swinging?  So if you were to create an angle with respect to the water, 0 is the water, 90 is straight up, is your recovery arm closer to the water or closer to the 45?  Hope that makes sense, just trying to visualize.  And is that angle based on your body rotation alone? So small angle or closer to the water means less rotation?  Or is it closer to the 90?

Thanks in advance.

Think about it as a rainbow where you try to extend your arm more than the old high elbow recovery stroke.  With high elbow you'd have your arm bent at about 90 degrees and therefore your arm would enter the water way too early.  You'd then have to extend your arm in the water, or, "ride the glide."  With straight arm you try to put your arm in as far forward as possible so that you immediately begin your catch and pull.  It all clicked for me when my swim coach just said that the high elbow generally just doesn't afford you the opportunity to really pick up your stroke rate at all.  High elbow looks pretty but it is fairly slow.  

As with some other things, this is at the more technical end of swimming.  Modifying a good high elbow to a modified straight arm took me 7 months of 6X week swimming.  The ole ride the glide feels good and is hard to give up, but I did become much faster.  In Sept with a high elbow mostly I was at a 18:59/1650.  By the next April had it down to 18:07.

Um, no.  This notion that people sink needs to be shelved permanently.  Every single elite level or OT level swimmer is nothing but a bundle of muscle and none of them sink.  I've seen Evans in warm up and cool down doing a fairly easy stroke and she's not stuck to the bottom of the pool.  Once and for all people need to move beyond this "muscular people sink" notion.  It simply is untrue. 

Some people are more buoyant than others.  That's a fact.  So some people sink more easily than others.  That's just physics.

I think the truth in what you say is that even a much less buoyant person can learn good position in the water, even at relatively slow speeds (though I'd venture to say that Janet Evans' cool-down speed is close to my sprint speed, and that difference might matter...).  Learning good body position just might be harder, initially, for those who aren't bearing the equivalent of a wetsuit on board.  Doesn't mean that low body fat should become an excuse for poor body position in the water -- I agree -- but let's be realistic that learning good body position might be different for people with different body types.