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 2012-02-12 8:24 PM in reply to: #4043551 |
Coach  9167     Stairway to Seven |  Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanicsH20 Killer - 2012-02-12 6:18 PM I have not seen or heard any evidence that the straight arm recovery causes any more shoulder injury than the high elbow.  But, I do agree you should always be mindful of not taking a stroke change too quickly.  And, never, ever wear paddles when contemplating or experimenting with a new stroke style. Application of anatomy & biomechanics will help the swimmer & coach make a good decision about any stroke changes. Many swimmers switching to straight arm recovery will exacerbate the shoulder extension already present in their recovery. I'm attaching an image of extension because it's a commonly misunderstood motion. Most swimmers can have happier shoulders, either with a straight or a bent arm by performing the adduction earlier in the recovery and minimizing the extension. (motion4b.jpg) Attachments ---------------- motion4b.jpg (4KB - 11 downloads) |
| 2012-02-12 8:48 PM in reply to: #4042851 |
Member 152 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics Here's a good example of the Olympic Pro's doing the straight arm into a head lock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1wnu0xzvjo |
| 2012-02-12 8:52 PM in reply to: #4042851 |
Extreme Veteran 662 Sunny San Diego | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics There's been much discussion about high stroke rate vs. gliding ie, Total Immersion. The extended arm entry goes along with the high stroke rate style. Total Immersion teaches you to slip your hand and arm through a slot in the water just past your head, creating as few bubbles as possible. For open water swimming, the high stroke rate has shown to be more powerful. But IMO it takes a huge amount of swim training to build the endurance and strength to be proficient with the high stroke rate method. Many triathletes who can't put in a high amount of swim training utilize the slower gliding method to "just get through" the swim leg, saving energy for the bike and run. |
| 2012-02-12 9:02 PM in reply to: #4043675 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics joker70 - 2012-02-12 7:52 PM There's been much discussion about high stroke rate vs. gliding ie, Total Immersion. The extended arm entry goes along with the high stroke rate style. Total Immersion teaches you to slip your hand and arm through a slot in the water just past your head, creating as few bubbles as possible. There doesn't have to be such polarization of either this or that. There are many stroke rates between what people might consider high stroke rate (80 strokes per minute??) vs what people might consider gliding (45 strokes per minute?). It all comes down to how far each stroke takes you and how often you take those strokes. Buy a tempo trainer and test for yourself. Of course, now we are getting back to that math thing again. |
| 2012-02-12 9:19 PM in reply to: #4043690 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics thanks Karen good things to remember |
| 2012-02-13 5:27 AM in reply to: #4043642 |
| Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics AdventureBear - 2012-02-12 8:24 PM Most swimmers can have happier shoulders, either with a straight or a bent arm by performing the adduction earlier in the recovery and minimizing the extension. Terms like "most" don't mean a thing. We have seen no increase in shoulder in injuries due to straight arm versus old and slow bent arm. I theorize that mega yardage is more to blame than arm position and since the mega yardage days are mostly behind us now, shoulder injuries are decreasing. I'd like you to support your use of the word "most" with actual evidence. I think TI is an awesome program. But, it does not produce very fast swimmers. Edited by H20 Killer 2012-02-13 5:28 AM |
| 2012-02-13 9:36 AM in reply to: #4043642 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics AdventureBear - 2012-02-12 8:24 PM H20 Killer - 2012-02-12 6:18 PM I have not seen or heard any evidence that the straight arm recovery causes any more shoulder injury than the high elbow.  But, I do agree you should always be mindful of not taking a stroke change too quickly.  And, never, ever wear paddles when contemplating or experimenting with a new stroke style. Application of anatomy & biomechanics will help the swimmer & coach make a good decision about any stroke changes. Many swimmers switching to straight arm recovery will exacerbate the shoulder extension already present in their recovery. I'm attaching an image of extension because it's a commonly misunderstood motion. Most swimmers can have happier shoulders, either with a straight or a bent arm by performing the adduction earlier in the recovery and minimizing the extension. So when I look at your diagram and you are talking about the straight arm recovery... I want to point out that in my original post, I did not mention anything about the recovery portion of the swim stroke. I was talking about arm entry... and changing from a bent arm overhead... to a straight arm... and stretching your arm out as far as it will go and flinging it in front of you... making the corresponding hip follow. I'm just making sure we are all talking about the same thing here. Based on your diagram, the recovery portion is what your arm does after pulling through... and I didn't mention or make any comments to that part of the swim stroke (Joe Friel did not either). |
| 2012-02-13 12:42 PM in reply to: #4044297 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics KSH - 2012-02-13 8:36 AM So when I look at your diagram and you are talking about the straight arm recovery... I want to point out that in my original post, I did not mention anything about the recovery portion of the swim stroke. I was talking about arm entry... and changing from a bent arm overhead... to a straight arm... and stretching your arm out as far as it will go and flinging it in front of you... making the corresponding hip follow. I'm just making sure we are all talking about the same thing here. Based on your diagram, the recovery portion is what your arm does after pulling through... and I didn't mention or make any comments to that part of the swim stroke (Joe Friel did not either). Rereading your original post, you are right you didn't mention anything about it...but everyone else seemed to start picking up on the recovery portion. I just wanted to make sure that if people were going to change things that they had a basic understanding of some anatomy & physics of hte recovery to help make their own decisions...so apologies if I derailed things. IN that case, I'll just go back to my original posts. The biggest ROCK for most triathletes that need help with their swimming is sinking hips and unless they have a really good feel and control of body position reaching all the way over the water before entry frequently causes a downward vector up front (in front of the leverage point) making the rear end sink. The motion you describe is being actively taught for many sprinting distances, basically throwing in a "meat hook" into the water. It requires a little more strength and power...if that's off set by increasing drag at the same time then its a net loss as far as energy expenditure. So you'll have to experiment. Edited by AdventureBear 2012-02-13 12:43 PM |
| 2012-02-13 1:03 PM in reply to: #4044297 |
| Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics KSH - 2012-02-13 9:36 AMI want to point out that in my original post, I did not mention anything about the recovery portion of the swim stroke. I was talking about arm entry... and changing from a bent arm overhead... to a straight arm... and stretching your arm out as far as it will go and flinging it in front of you... making the corresponding hip follow. Yes, we were talking about the same thing. This is the way faster swimming is being taught now. In reality, no one needs some hocus pocus biomechanics lesson. If it is being taught to six year olds, any adult can learn it. There is nothing inherently dangerous or more injury likely about straight versus bent. |
| 2012-02-13 2:09 PM in reply to: #4044918 |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics H20 Killer - 2012-02-13 2:03 PM KSH - 2012-02-13 9:36 AMI want to point out that in my original post, I did not mention anything about the recovery portion of the swim stroke. I was talking about arm entry... and changing from a bent arm overhead... to a straight arm... and stretching your arm out as far as it will go and flinging it in front of you... making the corresponding hip follow. Yes, we were talking about the same thing. This is the way faster swimming is being taught now. In reality, no one needs some hocus pocus biomechanics lesson. If it is being taught to six year olds, any adult can learn it. There is nothing inherently dangerous or more injury likely about straight versus bent. hi karen and h2o, i'm confused over your discussion and need some help understanding the following: 1. as an earlier poster noted, we are talking about distance swimming (ie 5k and above), correct? 2. here is a video of ryan lochte. in minutes 5-8 he demonstrates his 'normal' free versus his finish 'windmill' stroke. you are not speaking of this, i assume, as he states it is hard to do beyond a 100 or so yards. correct? youtube ryan lochte - Bing Videos 3. here is the video of sun yang which, from my view, is a perfect free stroke. let's disregard his final 100m and focus on the first 1400m, i am seeing a bent elbow and an underwater hand glide (say 6" or so from hand entry to dropping his fingers) with each stroke. are you both saying that this is not what is being taught now? sun yang 1500m freestyle - YouTube i train on my own but take lessons about 1x/mo. i am currently being corrected to have a high elbow recovery, letting my stroke 'mature' out front/hip rotation, and a high elbow pull. more of a hip driven vs. shoulder driven stroke. in a perfect world, i think i'm trying to do what both of the above videos demonstrate. this seems to be the opposite of what both of you are discussing. or, perhaps i'm just missing something somewhere? i am unfamiliar with TI so if your discussion above is in comparison to TI, then that is a discussion i'll leave for another day. if the above videos are not what you are referring to, could you please post an example for me? thanks for your thoughts! |
| 2012-02-13 2:29 PM in reply to: #4042851 |
| Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics I think it is counterproductive to compare yourself to Yang and Lochte. Try choosing mortals. The windmill is impossible to do for very long. Yang doesn't use a traditional bent arm but more of a straight arm. He's also 6'7" so his wingspan is huge so even with him entering early he still generates a huge amount of propulsive force with that wingspan. I think what we are saying is that it takes a whole lot less energy to put your arm in as far forward as possible than it does to put it in the water and then push it out before your catch. Plus, the bent arm is a slower stroke. Lochte puts his arms way out in front of him on his strokes. He is also incredibly strong. If you aren't competing or don't care to take the next step in speedy swimming, a bent elbow is perfectly fine. It just isn't being taught much anymore, in favor of the modified straight arm. If you have a nice bent arm and it works for you, unless you are a tinkerer I see no need to change. My coach sat me down and said if I wanted to go to the next level in swimming I'd have to drop the bent arm. Ignoring Yang's last 100 is kind of like ignoring the icing on the cake. That entire swim was designed around that last 100. But, I don't really like cupcakes. Edited by H20 Killer 2012-02-13 2:33 PM |
| 2012-02-13 2:34 PM in reply to: #4045109 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics trailsnail - 2012-02-13 1:09 PM i train on my own but take lessons about 1x/mo. i am currently being corrected to have a high elbow recovery, letting my stroke 'mature' out front/hip rotation, and a high elbow pull. more of a hip driven vs. shoulder driven stroke. in a perfect world, i think i'm trying to do what both of the above videos demonstrate. Regardless of who is teaching you are who is correcting you, simply ask them why the suggestions that are making will help your swimming, or why your current stroke needs to be changed. They may or many not have an answer. If they do have an answer, it might be "because so and so is doing it", or there might be some substance behind it. You seem insightful enough to sort it out. Always ask what the benefit is, and what is the cost. experiment for yourself and decide. |
| 2012-02-13 2:49 PM in reply to: #4045168 |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics H20 Killer - 2012-02-13 3:29 PM I think it is counterproductive to compare yourself to Yang and Lochte. Try choosing mortals. The windmill is impossible to do for very long. Yang doesn't use a traditional bent arm but more of a straight arm. He's also 6'7" so his wingspan is huge so even with him entering early he still generates a huge amount of propulsive force with that wingspan. I think what we are saying is that it takes a whole lot less energy to put your arm in as far forward as possible than it does to put it in the water and then push it out before your catch. Plus, the bent arm is a slower stroke. Lochte puts his arms way out in front of him on his strokes. He is also incredibly strong. If you aren't competing or don't care to take the next step in speedy swimming, a bent elbow is perfectly fine. It just isn't being taught much anymore, in favor of the modified straight arm. If you have a nice bent arm and it works for you, unless you are a tinkerer I see no need to change. My coach sat me down and said if I wanted to go to the next level in swimming I'd have to drop the bent arm. Ignoring Yang's last 100 is kind of like ignoring the icing on the cake. That entire swim was designed around that last 100. But, I don't really like cupcakes. thanks h20, this was the concise explanation of your view i was hoping to read. i guess what i'm seeing is bent elbows so perhaps i'm confused over the wording. |
| 2012-02-13 2:57 PM in reply to: #4045181 |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics AdventureBear - 2012-02-13 3:34 PM trailsnail - 2012-02-13 1:09 PM i train on my own but take lessons about 1x/mo. i am currently being corrected to have a high elbow recovery, letting my stroke 'mature' out front/hip rotation, and a high elbow pull. more of a hip driven vs. shoulder driven stroke. in a perfect world, i think i'm trying to do what both of the above videos demonstrate. Regardless of who is teaching you are who is correcting you, simply ask them why the suggestions that are making will help your swimming, or why your current stroke needs to be changed. They may or many not have an answer. If they do have an answer, it might be "because so and so is doing it", or there might be some substance behind it. You seem insightful enough to sort it out. Always ask what the benefit is, and what is the cost. experiment for yourself and decide. hi suzanne, yes, it was precisely this thread and apparently a new approach that really piqued my curiosity. i have been following this thread intently trying to visualize what was being discussed. Swimming, as you know, is difficult to write about! |
| 2012-02-13 3:25 PM in reply to: #4045238 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics trailsnail - 2012-02-13 2:49 PM H20 Killer - 2012-02-13 3:29 PM I think it is counterproductive to compare yourself to Yang and Lochte. Try choosing mortals. The windmill is impossible to do for very long. Yang doesn't use a traditional bent arm but more of a straight arm. He's also 6'7" so his wingspan is huge so even with him entering early he still generates a huge amount of propulsive force with that wingspan. I think what we are saying is that it takes a whole lot less energy to put your arm in as far forward as possible than it does to put it in the water and then push it out before your catch. Plus, the bent arm is a slower stroke. Lochte puts his arms way out in front of him on his strokes. He is also incredibly strong. If you aren't competing or don't care to take the next step in speedy swimming, a bent elbow is perfectly fine. It just isn't being taught much anymore, in favor of the modified straight arm. If you have a nice bent arm and it works for you, unless you are a tinkerer I see no need to change. My coach sat me down and said if I wanted to go to the next level in swimming I'd have to drop the bent arm. Ignoring Yang's last 100 is kind of like ignoring the icing on the cake. That entire swim was designed around that last 100. But, I don't really like cupcakes. thanks h20, this was the concise explanation of your view i was hoping to read. i guess what i'm seeing is bent elbows so perhaps i'm confused over the wording. I think "windmill" is the wrong way to describe this stroke. People think "windmill" means straight arm on top AND straight arm through the entire underwater portion of the stroke. I'm sure you are not talking about that... but I want to make sure people don't think we mean to do that. Per my first post, once the arm enters the water, the key is pointing the fingers/hand directly towards the bottom of the pool/lake/etc. This will ensure a high elbow UNDER the water and NOT doing a straight arm pull where you basically just PUSH the water down, versus moving through it. I know for me, being stuck at 1:40 ish per 100 in open water, I need to try something different. While I think it's sloppy looking, I also think it's worth a shot to see what it does for me. Mind you though, Joe Friel said this is what he tells all his athletes. And the story he was telling us, was about a guy who came to him with no history in the sport- he didn't tell us a story about helping a pro... he was coaching a newbie age grouper. |
| 2012-02-13 3:25 PM in reply to: #4045238 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics trailsnail - 2012-02-13 2:49 PM H20 Killer - 2012-02-13 3:29 PM I think it is counterproductive to compare yourself to Yang and Lochte. Try choosing mortals. The windmill is impossible to do for very long. Yang doesn't use a traditional bent arm but more of a straight arm. He's also 6'7" so his wingspan is huge so even with him entering early he still generates a huge amount of propulsive force with that wingspan. I think what we are saying is that it takes a whole lot less energy to put your arm in as far forward as possible than it does to put it in the water and then push it out before your catch. Plus, the bent arm is a slower stroke. Lochte puts his arms way out in front of him on his strokes. He is also incredibly strong. If you aren't competing or don't care to take the next step in speedy swimming, a bent elbow is perfectly fine. It just isn't being taught much anymore, in favor of the modified straight arm. If you have a nice bent arm and it works for you, unless you are a tinkerer I see no need to change. My coach sat me down and said if I wanted to go to the next level in swimming I'd have to drop the bent arm. Ignoring Yang's last 100 is kind of like ignoring the icing on the cake. That entire swim was designed around that last 100. But, I don't really like cupcakes. thanks h20, this was the concise explanation of your view i was hoping to read. i guess what i'm seeing is bent elbows so perhaps i'm confused over the wording. I think "windmill" is the wrong way to describe this stroke. People think "windmill" means straight arm on top AND straight arm through the entire underwater portion of the stroke. I'm sure you are not talking about that... but I want to make sure people don't think we mean to do that. Per my first post, once the arm enters the water, the key is pointing the fingers/hand directly towards the bottom of the pool/lake/etc. This will ensure a high elbow UNDER the water and NOT doing a straight arm pull where you basically just PUSH the water down, versus moving through it. I know for me, being stuck at 1:40 ish per 100 in open water, I need to try something different. While I think it's sloppy looking, I also think it's worth a shot to see what it does for me. Mind you though, Joe Friel said this is what he tells all his athletes. And the story he was telling us, was about a guy who came to him with no history in the sport- he didn't tell us a story about helping a pro... he was coaching a newbie age grouper. |
| 2012-02-13 3:40 PM in reply to: #4045371 |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics Karen, mystery solved!! i had the impression the discussion was about a straight arm recovery, not about the underwater pull. i am now completely understanding the straight/bent elbow distinction. i was on top of the water, you underwater. everyone... please forgive my, ughhh, stupidity!!!! |
| 2012-02-13 3:48 PM in reply to: #4044297 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics KSH - 2012-02-13 11:36 AM So when I look at your diagram and you are talking about the straight arm recovery... I want to point out that in my original post, I did not mention anything about the recovery portion of the swim stroke. I was talking about arm entry... and changing from a bent arm overhead... to a straight arm... and stretching your arm out as far as it will go and flinging it in front of you... making the corresponding hip follow. I'm just making sure we are all talking about the same thing here. Based on your diagram, the recovery portion is what your arm does after pulling through... and I didn't mention or make any comments to that part of the swim stroke (Joe Friel did not either). Unless I'm misreading your first post, your first point deals almost entirely with recovery. I'm not sure what I'm not understanding. Shane |
| 2012-02-13 4:01 PM in reply to: #4045435 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics gsmacleod - 2012-02-13 3:48 PM KSH - 2012-02-13 11:36 AM So when I look at your diagram and you are talking about the straight arm recovery... I want to point out that in my original post, I did not mention anything about the recovery portion of the swim stroke. I was talking about arm entry... and changing from a bent arm overhead... to a straight arm... and stretching your arm out as far as it will go and flinging it in front of you... making the corresponding hip follow. I'm just making sure we are all talking about the same thing here. Based on your diagram, the recovery portion is what your arm does after pulling through... and I didn't mention or make any comments to that part of the swim stroke (Joe Friel did not either). Unless I'm misreading your first post, your first point deals almost entirely with recovery. I'm not sure what I'm not understanding. Shane Here's what I wrote: (1) What regards to arm entry, he said that for pool swimming (competitive swimming) you think about slipping your hand in half way between your head and your arm stretch out all the way. For OWSing, you don't do this. Instead, you take your arm out of the water, fling/stretch it all the way out, and slap it into the water. If you watch some of the top pro triathletes, you will see this form. They kind of straight arm it, and fling their arm into the water. Which for me, it makes me cringe, being a pool swimmer. It's messy and sloppy. I love swimming fast, without hardly making any splash, but he said that it doesn't really work for open water. I will say that when I do swim coaching/instruction I have people do what I know to be correct... but I might be changing that. I'm also going to try this new arm entry and see how it works for me. I have been stuck at 1:40 ish per 100 for open water for YEARS... time to shake things up. He also said that this arm entry helps fix the lack of body rotation issue. He pointed out that if you are stretching your arm out fully that your hip will follow. Thus, body rotation. So you don't have to think about rotating your hips and body while swimming. (2) When your arms go into the water, you want them to be wide and not cross over your mid-line. Basically, think of your head as 12:00. Your left arm goes in at 11:00, and your right arm in at 1:00. He didn't use the "time" as a way to describe it, that's my way of helping people reading visualize it. (3) Once you have flung your arm all the way out, and you have entered at 11:00/1:00, you immediately take your hand, and point your fingers straight down. What a lot of people do, is start to pull through with a straight arm, which pushes the water down (so you don't propel yourself forward), then the fingers point down, and the elbow comes up. The fingers/hand need to point down immediately after entering the water, so the elbow is high and the pull starts when your hand immediately enters the water, versus that lag time. Edited by KSH 2012-02-13 4:02 PM |
| 2012-02-13 4:10 PM in reply to: #4045460 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics KSH - 2012-02-13 6:01 PM gsmacleod - 2012-02-13 3:48 PM Unless I'm misreading your first post, your first point deals almost entirely with recovery. I'm not sure what I'm not understanding. Here's what I wrote: Thanks but I was able to find your first post. My confusion is because point 1 deals almost entirely with what happens out of the water so I don't understand how nothing you wrote has anything to do with the recovery phase. Shane |
| 2012-02-13 4:10 PM in reply to: #4045460 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics KSH - 2012-02-13 3:01 PM (3) Once you have flung your arm all the way out, and you have entered at 11:00/1:00, you immediately take your hand, and point your fingers straight down. What a lot of people do, is start to pull through with a straight arm, which pushes the water down (so you don't propel yourself forward), then the fingers point down, and the elbow comes up. The fingers/hand need to point down immediately after entering the water, so the elbow is high and the pull starts when your hand immediately enters the water, versus that lag time. This deserves an entirely new thread.  |
| 2012-02-13 5:00 PM in reply to: #4042851 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics I am just going to briefly add that there are many things that I would disagree with what Friel is suggesting about swimming. I just don't have time to address them all. Thought I'd chime in though. |
| 2012-02-13 5:52 PM in reply to: #4045479 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics gsmacleod - 2012-02-13 4:10 PM KSH - 2012-02-13 6:01 PM gsmacleod - 2012-02-13 3:48 PM Unless I'm misreading your first post, your first point deals almost entirely with recovery. I'm not sure what I'm not understanding. Here's what I wrote: Thanks but I was able to find your first post. My confusion is because point 1 deals almost entirely with what happens out of the water so I don't understand how nothing you wrote has anything to do with the recovery phase. Shane Well I didn't really talk about it... other than to say that when the hand goes into the water, it should point downwards. Mind you, we are talking about "big rocks" here. Not the "small rocks". I'm not saying that the recovery portion isn't a "big rock"... I'm just relaying what was said to me. To me, how you pull your hand through the water, under the water, is part of the recovery. Then there's how your hand exits the water after the pulling portion. |
| 2012-02-13 5:59 PM in reply to: #4045578 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics tjfry - 2012-02-13 5:00 PM I am just going to briefly add that there are many things that I would disagree with what Friel is suggesting about swimming. I just don't have time to address them all. Thought I'd chime in though. Um, you need to tell us what you disagree with.  I'm not taking "sides" on this issue. Seriously. I'm just passing along what I heard. Obviously, everyone has their own beliefs and experiences. Here's all I know... is that I go to SMU and I see competitive swimmers and they have a long straight arm (out of the water), and they are slapping their hand into the water (swimming fast too)... I watch pro triathletes on TV in open water and they are doing the same thing (swimming fast!). So when Joe Friel says that a straight arm out of the water is best used for OWS and the old way of having a high elbow out of the water and slipping the hand in half way, is more for competitive swimmers (and dare I say from some of my own personal observations- the old school way of competitive swimming)... I'm going to certain consider it to be a viable option to try out the next time I'm in the pool. With all of that said, I'm pretty sure everything that was said has nothing to do with TI. |
| 2012-02-13 6:09 PM in reply to: #4045668 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Heard Joe Friel speak... what he said about swim mechanics KSH - 2012-02-13 7:52 PM To me, how you pull your hand through the water, under the water, is part of the recovery. Then there's how your hand exits the water after the pulling portion. Ok now I'm totally lost. I think you need to tell me how you define the recovery phase. Shane |
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