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2012-02-16 3:29 PM

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Master
2621
2000500100
Almaden Valley, San Jose, California
Subject: ethical dilemna

You may have read that there is a shortage of methotrexate in the US.  It's a chemo drug that is commonly used for treatment of a type of childhood leukemia.  It's been around for a while, is very effective, and pretty darn inexpensive. 

It's also used for people with Rheumatoid Arthritis.  It's sold in little vials, and injected subcutaneously at home.  It's pretty effective, often in conjuction with other highly advertised drugs (Enbrel, Humira, etc.).

I have RA, and I use Methotrexate.  My pharmacy is out of it.  When I went to pick up my supply, the pharmacist told me that they were looking around for it at other locations, and would call me if/when they could find it.

As I exited the store, a woman approached me and told me that I should be ashamed of myself - that there were children that needed this drug to live, and that my obtaining the drug was directly harming a child.

I don't find myself speechless very often - but that's what happened.  She left, I left.

She knows nothing about me.  Medical treatment allows me to do many things that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do.  It's not a cure, but it is a pretty effective treatment.  Without this drug, and others, my life would be very different - but RA isn't going to kill me.

So now it's got me thinking.  Am I taking medicine from a child? Is this a moral dilemna?  What thinks COJ?



2012-02-16 3:31 PM
in reply to: #4051477

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Member
5452
50001001001001002525
NC
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
velcromom - 2012-02-16 4:29 PM

Am I taking medicine from a child? Is this a moral dilemna?  What thinks COJ?

Ask yourself these same questions about warm clothes, nutritious food and safe housing.  In other words: no, no and I think you're fine.  Good luck finding your medicine.

 

 

 

2012-02-16 3:40 PM
in reply to: #4051477

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Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

Frankly, it's none of her freaking business what medication you are on, and to do that is a blatant violation of your privacy rights (that's why they have the little "wait back here" signs at pharmacies).

You are not taking medicine out of the mouths of babes.  No moral dilemma here

2012-02-16 3:43 PM
in reply to: #4051477

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Pro
5755
50005001001002525
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
velcromom - 2012-02-16 4:29 PM

You may have read that there is a shortage of methotrexate in the US.  It's a chemo drug that is commonly used for treatment of a type of childhood leukemia.  It's been around for a while, is very effective, and pretty darn inexpensive. 

It's also used for people with Rheumatoid Arthritis.  It's sold in little vials, and injected subcutaneously at home.  It's pretty effective, often in conjuction with other highly advertised drugs (Enbrel, Humira, etc.).

I have RA, and I use Methotrexate.  My pharmacy is out of it.  When I went to pick up my supply, the pharmacist told me that they were looking around for it at other locations, and would call me if/when they could find it.

As I exited the store, a woman approached me and told me that I should be ashamed of myself - that there were children that needed this drug to live, and that my obtaining the drug was directly harming a child.

I don't find myself speechless very often - but that's what happened.  She left, I left.

She knows nothing about me.  Medical treatment allows me to do many things that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do.  It's not a cure, but it is a pretty effective treatment.  Without this drug, and others, my life would be very different - but RA isn't going to kill me.

So now it's got me thinking.  Am I taking medicine from a child? Is this a moral dilemna?  What thinks COJ?

That's idiotic. You are not responsible for the shortage and have a valid use due to your medical condition.

I am pretty sure that the dosages you would require for RA and the dosages used for cancer are quite different. And that dosages at the level for cancer treatment would be administered in a clinical setting such as a hospital, not at home. So you're talking two different supply chains too.

2012-02-16 3:45 PM
in reply to: #4051477

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Pro
6191
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Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

Agree with the above.

Correct response: "That's my business."

2012-02-16 3:46 PM
in reply to: #4051477

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Melon Presser
52116
50005000500050005000500050005000500050002000100
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

I agree with all of the above.

I am sorry you are having trouble getting this drug, and very sorry that the incident in the drugstore happened and caused you worry.

I think the woman was horrifically out of line.



2012-02-16 3:47 PM
in reply to: #4051477

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Pro
6191
50001000100252525
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

Did some research: http://www.medpagetoday.com/HematologyOncology/Chemotherapy/31211

New supplies expected today.

"Product will be allocated to oncology clinics, hospitals, and pediatric facilities beginning Thursday, Feb. 16, 2012, and will continue over the next several weeks. We hope this supply will help address near-term patient needs while other companies licensed to manufacture methotrexate increase production," according to a Bedford statement."

Other patients get first dibs because of distribution, and I hope some arrives at a local pharmacy for you soon.

ETA: Let the pros do the allocating. If it's there for you, you should not feel badly at all for taking it.



Edited by ratherbeswimming 2012-02-16 3:48 PM
2012-02-16 3:49 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Subject: ...
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2012-02-16 3:54 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Champion
10668
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

Wow... I don't think I would have found myself speechless, but what I did say would probably rhyme with:

Kiss doff, witch!

2012-02-16 4:13 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Expert
1416
1000100100100100
San Luis Obispo, CA
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
I'm way more sarcastic.  I probably would have responded "there's far too many children in the world".
2012-02-16 4:13 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Elite
3090
20001000252525
Spokane, WA
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

As others have said, Wow. I'm actually glad that you remained speechless--for your sake. Sometimes in these situations we later think of hurtful replies that we should have given when the offending party was clearly in the wrong--her in this case, obviously.

But then we've stooped to their level. And again, as everyone else has pointed out, this is not a moral dilemma. You have done nothing wrong and she was WAY out of line. Hopefully someday she realizes that.



2012-02-16 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4051541

Veteran
345
10010010025
SE TX
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
ratherbeswimming - 2012-02-16 3:47 PM

Other patients get first dibs because of distribution, and I hope some arrives at a local pharmacy for you soon.

ETA: Let the pros do the allocating. If it's there for you, you should not feel badly at all for taking it.

This is all you need to know. You are a health care consumer, exercising your choice. Other actors in the market will decide whether that choice needs to be restricted.

By the logic of the butt-insky, you should also start buying all the meth and crack you can, to keep it out of the hands of innocent children.

2012-02-16 4:28 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Veteran
458
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
Just wow.  Take care of yourself and best wishes in getting the meds.  You are equally deserving.
2012-02-16 4:30 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

Perhaps they were out of her meds, too.

I hear public scoldings are all the rage, but I wouldn't assume from her behavior that your behavior should be questioned.

2012-02-16 5:05 PM
in reply to: #4051657

Veteran
458
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
Renee - 2012-02-16 4:30 PM

Perhaps they were out of her meds, too.

 

AWESOME....made me laugh out loud!!!

2012-02-16 5:09 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Veteran
663
5001002525
Central Point
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
Was her name Gladys Kravitz?


2012-02-16 5:54 PM
in reply to: #4051531

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
ratherbeswimming - 2012-02-16 4:45 PM

Agree with the above.

Correct response: "That's my business."

No moral dilemma here...my dream version of a "correct response" would have been a big smile and a, "%^&* you, have a great day" as I walked past her...but I too would have responded the same way you did.  

Weren't we recently talking about crazy stranger scolding?  If this aint it, I don't know what is!   

2012-02-16 5:58 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

No dilemma in my book.  As the others have said, the supply side isn't your concern.

2012-02-16 6:20 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Member
208
100100
Longview, Texas
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

Not sure why you would even consider hearing this crap from a stranger. My wife has RA since she was 7, we meet in 1997 and even not having the problem, I feel her pain. 

 

don't be speechless, just tell the person to &*%@&#^$ off 

 

RA SUCKS!

2012-02-16 6:25 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Expert
924
500100100100100
Western WI
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

That lady is a knucklehead!  And undeucated on how drug allocation and distribution works.  You are in no way taking meds from a child and should put your worries to rest asap.  You are equally as entitled to that medication as anyone else and should not feel bad using it.  I'm glad you've found something that makes your RA more manageable.  Rest easy Velcro,  I'm sure the kiddos who really need it are receiving it - hospitals and cancer centers have plans for how to deal with drug shortages.

2012-02-16 6:54 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Expert
2189
2000100252525
Dodge County, MN (out in the corn)
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
In the South, there's an easy response for these situations. Just sweetly smile and say, "Well, bless your heart."  It's Southern code for eff off and go away. Kiss


2012-02-16 10:50 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Extreme Veteran
1112
1000100
Las Vegas
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

I also have the Arthur brothers visiting me (arthur and Ritis) and take Methotrexate. 

I received a call from my pharmacy to tell me they were out and looking around, and would let me know when and if they found a supply for me.

If that "lady" has spoken to me that way, I might have born the brunt of the pain from kicking her with my swollen and bent toes.

I used to be soooooo mellow and patient, but as I age......look out



Edited by SWIM2LIVE 2012-02-16 10:53 PM
2012-02-16 11:09 PM
in reply to: #4051477

Pro
5361
50001001001002525
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
You could have very politely and calmly shared with her that you have leukemia.
2012-02-17 7:26 AM
in reply to: #4052161

Veteran
298
100100252525
West Henrietta, NY
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna

It's so nice that she is taking up a cause she saw a 1 minute segment about on the nightly news.  Maybe instead of confronting all those at the pharmacy she should learn a little more about the subject and not be such a d-bag.

2012-02-17 7:36 AM
in reply to: #4051477

Champion
16151
50005000500010001002525
Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: ethical dilemna
The fact that drug manufacturers have outsourced (or staff cut beyond effectiveness) their manufacturing to facilities who can't maintain cleanliness and compliance standards is the problem. Not the treatemtn for your debilitating arthritis.

Benvenue and Johnson & Johnson are the real culpable players here. There are serious doubts whether J&J will ever be able to manufacture at Ft. Washington again because the plant has SO many violations (such as mold) which may never allow it to reopen. Simple Benadryl isn't available now in certain formulations. Benvenue are the ones who failed to produce methotrexate, again due to contamination issues.

http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/leukemia-drug-shortage-averted-no...

Shows you what short term profit focus does.

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