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2012-03-01 1:54 PM

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Melon Presser
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Subject: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

For those of you who have done iron races or other long-swim races where there are hundreds of people in the mass start ... where do you put yourself?

I'm very comfortable in the scrum, am good at making space for myself and progress, and expect to be in the top third to top half coming in (I really don't know ... this is for IM Melbourne, inaugural, and mostly Aussies so I imagine a much better swim field than most IMs).



2012-03-01 2:15 PM
in reply to: #4075631

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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
TriAya - 2012-03-01 1:54 PM

For those of you who have done iron races or other long-swim races where there are hundreds of people in the mass start ... where do you put yourself?

I'm very comfortable in the scrum, am good at making space for myself and progress, and expect to be in the top third to top half coming in (I really don't know ... this is for IM Melbourne, inaugural, and mostly Aussies so I imagine a much better swim field than most IMs).

Go front and center. You are a great swimmer and can take a little beating. Better to stay in front of everyone who goes out hard and then fades then to have to swim through them after 1,000 meters. I say start center because the real fast ones will be hugging the buoy line.
2012-03-01 2:27 PM
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2012-03-01 2:48 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

mndiver - 2012-03-02 4:15 AM Go front and center. You are a great swimmer and can take a little beating. Better to stay in front of everyone who goes out hard and then fades then to have to swim through them after 1,000 meters. I say start center because the real fast ones will be hugging the buoy line.

I ruv you and thanks for the vote of confidence

IN-teresting on the bold bit. Melbourne hasn't published full rules yet but it's possible swimming inside the buoy line would be an option (required to turn outside on the corners). Not sure what I'd do in that case.

Well, I'm not sure what I'd do or am going to do in any case, so that's why I'm asking.

2012-03-01 2:49 PM
in reply to: #4075631

Expert
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Las Vegas
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
I put my self in the front and when that gun goes off, I start swimming as if there were 3000 crazy people chasing me. Oh yeah....there are. 8-0
BTW, at IMAZ last year, I started just inside the buoy line thinking I was being clever. So did the other 100 or so triathletes, unfortunately.

Edited by TRICLOPICUS 2012-03-01 2:53 PM
2012-03-01 2:52 PM
in reply to: #4075631

Expert
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Alexandria, MN
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
TriAya - 2012-03-01 1:54 PM

For those of you who have done iron races or other long-swim races where there are hundreds of people in the mass start ... where do you put yourself?

I'm very comfortable in the scrum, am good at making space for myself and progress, and expect to be in the top third to top half coming in (I really don't know ... this is for IM Melbourne, inaugural, and mostly Aussies so I imagine a much better swim field than most IMs).

There you go, I fixed it for you.  Wink



2012-03-01 2:53 PM
in reply to: #4075757

Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

TRICLOPICUS - 2012-03-02 4:49 AM I put my self in the front and when that gun goes off, I start swimming as if there were 3000 crazy people chasing me. Oh yeah....there are. 8-0

I could be the leader of the crazies. Because I am (quite officially) beyond crazy.

So there's two votes for that strategy from superfly Ironmen I adore.

2012-03-01 2:57 PM
in reply to: #4075754

Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

Yanti,

I watched the mass start at IMFL last year and they allowed you to swim inside the buoys and make your way back to the turn buoy which everyone has to go around.  There was lots of clean water there per my observations.  Not sure about your race and their specific rules but just wanted to pass that along.

2012-03-01 3:04 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
Ask yourself "will 30 seconds really mean that much at the finish?"  If the answer is no, your strategy is very simple.  When the gun goes off - wait 30 seconds - then start.  You won't have people swimming on top of you and kicking you in the face.  If your have an uneventful swim, you can easily make up those 30 seconds on the bike.  If you have a terrible swim, you will loose more than that in T1 trying to get over the assualt.
2012-03-01 3:12 PM
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over a barrier
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
Wisconsin does a in water deep start. I seeded myself about third row back and against the buoy line. Came out at 1:03:XX...I would overseed yourself. IMO, there is less contact amongst the good swimmers, aside from the tight space....very little contact. Most of the fighting happens in the mid-back from what I hear as people are whip kicking and not holding a line.
2012-03-01 3:16 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

running2far - 2012-03-02 5:12 AM Wisconsin does a in water deep start. I seeded myself about third row back and against the buoy line. Came out at 1:03:XX...I would overseed yourself. IMO, there is less contact amongst the good swimmers, aside from the tight space....very little contact. Most of the fighting happens in the mid-back from what I hear as people are whip kicking and not holding a line.

So we're 3-for-1 on that strategy now. I also expect I'd more easily find some good feet towards the front.



2012-03-01 3:22 PM
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Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

Get up front. See who you can find to trail or lead the way.

What does the course look like? And is there a chance for current or waves that could push across the field? I'd base where up front off of that.

2012-03-01 3:27 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
brigby1 - 2012-03-02 5:22 AM

Get up front. See who you can find to trail or lead the way.

What does the course look like? And is there a chance for current or waves that could push across the field? I'd base where up front off of that.

Deepwater start about 50m in front of jetty. They actually have a video of the swim course (and I've spoken to people who do their swim training there, BRRRR) and it's fairly flat and currentless. There may be a bit of chop coming in perpendicularly to the course (towards shore).





(IM Melbourne Swim.jpg)



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IM Melbourne Swim.jpg (37KB - 13 downloads)
2012-03-01 3:34 PM
in reply to: #4075800

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

bhc - 2012-03-01 3:04 PM Ask yourself "will 30 seconds really mean that much at the finish?"  If the answer is no, your strategy is very simple.  When the gun goes off - wait 30 seconds - then start.  You won't have people swimming on top of you and kicking you in the face.  If your have an uneventful swim, you can easily make up those 30 seconds on the bike.  If you have a terrible swim, you will loose more than that in T1 trying to get over the assualt.

Unless you are in the back, you will physically not be able to "wait 30 seconds" as you will get dunked and swam over. At least that has been my experience. You just go when you can go, or risk being pushed under. Of course those who wanted to wait started in the very, very back on purpose. Always an option.

However, with Yanti's experience, speed and endurance I'm going to go with the team and say to start towards the front, close to or inside the bouey line. You can definitely handle it.

2012-03-01 3:36 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Strong Beach, CA
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
I started in the middle and second or third row back in my two iM's.  Went 1:09 and 1:07.. I didn't experience any more contact than i was expecting.
2012-03-01 3:40 PM
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Champion
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Williamston, Michigan
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
You are a stronger swimmer.  Put yourself in the middle of it.  I usually start about 3-5 rows of people back from the front and about a 1/3rd the way to the right of teh buoy line.  IM swim is great fun you will love it.  HUGE draft effect at first so use the free speed.  There will be contact but it won't be malicious or intentional.  Personally I would rather get swum over than have to swim around people so I seed myself aggressively


2012-03-01 3:58 PM
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Veteran
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Colorful Colorado
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

 

Seed yourself next to someone that looks tasty, so if there are sharks, they will take your neighbor instead of you...

2012-03-01 4:00 PM
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Coach
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Stairway to Seven
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
I vote for front strategy. You're a good enough swimmer you'r enot going to anyone off, you'll avoid the poor swimmers who are more likely to thrash and retaliate because they don't know what to do, and you'll avoid the breaststrokers as well.
2012-03-01 4:04 PM
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Expert
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
FoggyGoggles - 2012-03-01 2:27 PM

Out of curiosity: if you choose to start in the back, does it affect your swim time since you're essentially swimming farther?


I did this in an IM to avoid the manic-ness. It took me 38 seconds to reach the 'start' bouy which isnt really much time at all. But what seriously cost me time was having to pass so many people, pushing through groups, going around etc. That was a major time suck.
2012-03-01 4:05 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
rockymtnhigh - 2012-03-01 4:58 PM

 

Seed yourself next to someone that looks tasty, so if there are sharks, they will take your neighbor instead of you...

Now you see, that will be impossible.  Miss Yanti will be the tastiest looking fish out there.  WinkLaughing

2012-03-01 4:14 PM
in reply to: #4075631

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

I started along the buoy line at CdA, right in the middle of the scrum.  I'm not fast enough to get ahead of the pack so it was a lot of work and wasted energy.

At Western Australia, the swim goes around the Busselton jetty.  There was a good current perpendicular to the swim course, so I started way right.  By the time I got to the end of the jetty, I was right next to it.  I was surprised how few people started on the outside like I did.  I was still able to find some feet but I had much more elbow room, so to speak.



2012-03-01 5:14 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy
bhc - 2012-03-01 3:04 PMAsk yourself "will 30 seconds really mean that much at the finish?"  If the answer is no, your strategy is very simple.  When the gun goes off - wait 30 seconds - then start.  You won't have people swimming on top of you and kicking you in the face.  If your have an uneventful swim, you can easily make up those 30 seconds on the bike.  If you have a terrible swim, you will loose more than that in T1 trying to get over the assualt.
No offense to the poster but this would be terrible advice for Yanti. She is way too good of a swimmer to start in the very back and that is the only place you could get away with waiting 30 seconds. Even if she did she would then have to swim through chaos. Great strategy for someone who is planning a 1:30 or more swim. Not so great for OP.
2012-03-01 6:09 PM
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Pro
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

I vote front row (or very near) in whichever position suits you.  If they are offering an inside line between buoys I'd take it.  It has been my experience that few will take advantage of that and I've usually found pretty clear sailing inside the lines.

I've done several 1,000+ mass starts and hanging back at the start is not a good strategy if you are a strong swimmer. 

2012-03-01 6:36 PM
in reply to: #4075631

Pro
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Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

Yanti, I faced the same issue with IMFL in 2010 for my first mass start.  Here's a clip from my race report:

"This was a really rough swim. In the first 200 yds, I had my left goggle kicked off. Throughout the rest of the swim, I was punched in the head once, and kicked in the jaw 4 times. Considering this was also my first OW ocean swim and mass start, I'm not going to complain about my swim performance. I wasn't sure where to line up, and what strategy to use, because I figured my usual swim strategy of lining up at the front of the wave and jumping ahead of the majority of the pack in the first 200 yds wouldn't work with the number of strong swimmers that would be in this race and in a mass start. I opted to line up near the inside, and several rows back. Overall, my swim time was within the range I expected.

 

What would you do differently?:

Maybe try lining up in the front, but toward the outside in hopes of finding more clear water."

My swim ranking was 148/403 in M40-44 and 752/2301 overall, so I'm in the range you expect to be in.  Also, I'm comfortable with the scrum too, but after an hour+ in 3 ft waves and never getting clear of the washing machine, I was ready to get out of the water.

 



Edited by TriMyBest 2012-03-01 6:38 PM
2012-03-01 7:16 PM
in reply to: #4076098

Expert
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Subject: RE: MASSIVE Mass Swim Start Strategy

like the last poster, I did IMFL in 2010 as my first IM and I'm around the same ability as you.  On my coaches advise, I started 2nd row and far to the right (outside).  I will start more in the fray next time.  I found that I was surrounded by people that weren't as good as me and got punched way too many times by people swinging their arms around and couldn't get a good draft.

I was 731 OA and 16/83 OA. I didn't find a good draft anywhere in the race except to the the first turn due to where I started and getting way off course both times coming into shore due to the current.

My coach is crazy and thinks I can do 1:00 at IMWI this year.  I'm pushing for 1:05.

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