To Fin or not to Fin, that is the question

I am a slow kicker too

Better way is without for now.  You shouldn't use fins merely as a reson to get through a set faster.  Keep at it.  You will get better at it.

You know I did keep thinking that this would go so much faster if I just had my fins on.  lol

Oh. I like sharing an unpopular opinion with you, then, I guess

I started doing pull sets and it feels like I am better about rotating my body to each side while doing pull sets.  Maybe I am doing it wrong but it felt like it to me. 

Fins are great for short, hard sets where you are going as fast as possible and trying to get anaerobic.   For straight kick sets I would stay away from the fins.  Do you only use a board?  It might be worthwhile mixing up the sets a bit by kicking some on your back with your arms outstretched over your head.

I have to disagree with the comment regarding kick sets having no value.  While its true that triathletes and distance swimmers do not use their kick as much for propulsion having at least a decent kick is vital for maintaining a good body position throughout the course of the swim.  A weak kick or one that is out of sync can cause your lower body to drop in the water and increase drag significantly.  This is somewhat mitigated in a wetsuit swim since the suit can help hold your legs up somewhat but a steady kick is still advantageous to not fatiguing yourself with unnecessary drag. 

AdventureBear:  I'd down with the advice about not doing kicking drills because I don't like doing them.  While I suck at kicking to propel, my kick while swimming (used for rotation and balance) is apparently good (I have the video to prove it).  But when it comes to propelling myself down the pool, not so much, but fortunately that's not required in triathlon.   Would you advise ALL swimmers against kicking drills or just the competent ones?

I might be inclined to hand a kick board (and maybe fins) to a new swimmer to work on ankle flexibility and form.   Is that a bad idea?   

I am not sure about saying that pull sets don't have a place, because it's how I am able to focus on my pull with less distraction.   So I guess if I follow that advice, maybe kicking's not so bad either.   Or do you mean we should do pull sets but without a pull buoy?

That doesn't answer the OP's question really, but I am curious about the blanket advice against both kicking and pulling.

Probably has more to do with the buoy than the pull.  Try doing your pull sets without the buoy and see if you are still rotating well.

This is absolutely true, and the phrase "saving my legs for the bike and run" irks me (for example).

I just don't think kick sets are the best way, or even a particularly good way, to reinforce what needs to be a continuously rolling body position, nor do they help with that all-important sync.

The problem with kicksets is a lot of people read them and just think "kickboard" and try to get them over as fast as possible.  Doing the majority of your kicksets without the board forces you to think about how your kick affects your body position in the water and help to make the steady, efficient kick second nature so when swimming you can concentrate on other aspects of your stroke. 

heres a quote i found on another forum that ive never forgotten.

You don't need drills, you just need to man the f*** up and kick. It's not complicated. Seriously. Hips and quads move the legs up and down while your toes are more or less pointed.

 Grab some fins (long ones, not that Zoomers crap) and kick (on your back, on your stomach in a streamline, with a board, whatever). Kick hard. Don't just give up because you suck at it either. If need be, have a friend come and yell degrading things at you from the side of the pool until you can do one pathetic lap. Then turn around and do another lap.

If it's tiring, it's much more likely that it's because you're weak than because you're doing it wrong. It's hard to screw up swimming with fins, as long as your toes are pointed and you don't have too much knee bend. If you've got your legs straight and your toes pointed and your feet are moving up and down (in the direction perpendicular to the bottom of the pool) then that's a start. I've seen some people that point their toes, keep their legs straight, and then when I tell them to kick they make small, alternate forward/backward jabbing motions with their feet.

If you look like you're having a seizure, or it looks like you're trying to push buttons with your toes then you're doing it wrong.

And we now agree.  Too many people don't understand the reason for the set they are doing.  Whether it be kicksets or drills, there should be a specific aspect of your swim that you are trying to improve by doing it. 

I disagree.  Kick sets is when I rest my lats.  Very valuable to me. 

I would only recommend kick sets if you want to swim faster  

Last year I had Achilles tendonitis and could only swim for a couple of months--to keep my legs strong I did a bunch of kick sets in the evenings.  Got my 100 kick time down to 1:29.  My swim speed increased directly with my kick speed during this time.  To your question--do both. Mix it up.  Kicking with fins increases resistance and helps with ankle flexibility.  It's hard to use bad form with fins.  But in the end you don't get to use fins so you should practice without as well. 

Try adding 5 x 100 @ x:xx with fins or 10 x 50 @ x:xx without at the end of your swim sets and see if what that does.

Fins or no fins...it's a complicated question and really depends on the swimmer.

If you have an ineffeicent kick, your ankles may no be flexible enough, your hips may be opening up to much (legs separating too much), your knees may be bending too much etc.

The kick only accounts for about 12% of the force driving you forward in freestyle. Seems small, but if you have a lag in your stroke,or don't kick because it causes you to expend too much energy, working to improve your kick will be very helpful, not only for swimming faster, but more effeicently, smoother and might even lower your stroke rate if it's too high.

Longer flippers are meant to be an extension of your foot and having a flexible ankle is an important factor in having an effeicent kick. The only other athletes that have the same ankle flexibility are dancers and gymnist. Stretch if you can't point your toes and create a straight line with your foot when pointed.

If you are not kicking from the core and using your hip flexors to kick, you will also have a hard time moving. Your knees should not bend too much and your feet should not break the surface. Too much of either will cause you to break your streamline and fall outside of the channel your head creates for you body to go through.

Fins are a great way to increase flexibility and strength in the muscles not commonly used.

How many of you have gotten a foot cramp or two in while swimming? This is because there are two phase of your kick. Kicking down, using the top of your foot, and the kick up (using the bottom of your foot), this is often the part that is underutilized. If you swim butterfly, you should know how important the second phase of the kick really is.

If you can, kick with fins and no kickboard. Practice in streamline (arms over your head) and do two types of kicks to truly understand how a kick should feel and find the kick that best works for you. Try small fast kicks first for one lap and then wide slow kicks. You will feel in the wide kicks how your legs and feet should work together, if you are doing it right and really feel how much power can truly come from your kick.

It's much easier for those who have an ineffeicent kick to kick occassionally or sometimes not at all. Two beat kick is also popular for folks who have trouble kicking. Without a proper kick or movement of your legs, they could become heavy in the water and either create drag, making your upper body work harder, or throw your streamline and body rotation off because it's easy to get sloppy through your car without your legs engaged.

I admit, while I have a very efficient kick, I do not kick as much when at a cruising speed in freestyle, however, when I am sprinting my kick adds a significant amount of speed. This, I imagine would be a handy tool to have in your back pocket when either beginning and trying to break ahead of the pack, or finishing and trying to sprint to the end.

Everyone has their own opinion about the kick, but in the end it's what works for you. Kicking more will make your workout more aerobic (ie using the pull buoy is much easier because you're not kicking and your body is in the right position). Adding the kick will increase your endurance quicker than ignoring it and depending on upper body to pull you through your race.

Some have mentioned that it takes a while to get feeling back into your legs when swimming in cold water. Kicking more will cause blood to flow to your legs and they won't become stiff over your swim when you have to run out and get on your bike!

Freakin' awesome.