26.2 vs 50Km
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Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2012-04-09 6:17 PM |
Pro 5361 | Subject: 26.2 vs 50Km OK- here's the deal. I'm looking at running the Mt. Lemmon marathon. (3 weeks) Granted, it's only 26.2mi, but given the 6000ft climb and the high average altitude (it goes up to about 8400ft I think), I've got to be treating this like an Ultra and not a marathon. Given the average %grade of 5% and its altitude, it's equivalent (at the same exertion) to ~20% slower pacing (or a 32mi distance). but wait- if I'm running effectively 20% longer, then I cannot maintain the same exertion level, so I've got to slow my pace down even more. This isn't my 'A' race and I'm not going to PR or BQ on this course, so I don't really care about my time... except that I really do. And- I also want to enjoy the experience and not kill myself like I did at my marathon in January (3:23 BQ thank you very much). I'm 48. 134lbs. Haven't really done a dedicated training plan for this event, but have been averaging 45mpw for the last 6 weeks and have had a few 20milers, with a solid 22mi mountain run this past weekend which went well. I haven't been over on this part of the forum before. So- help me out. Put me into the Ultra mentality. How do I treat this differently. Pacing, nutrition, feel, attitude, altitude...bonking? |
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2012-04-09 11:19 PM in reply to: #4139226 |
Expert 944 Waller County, TX | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km I don't have anything specific or magic words, but I think you already have the fitness and the discipline to deal with the added effort. The real ultra experience doesn't really kick in until you go 50 miles or more; then all the things you mention become doubly important. I would tend to agree that the elevation gain makes the 26.2 seem like 31, so yeah, you may go a little slower, but you're still going to be in great shape to post a very respectable time and do well against the field, especially your AG. You might want to be thinking about eating a bit more when you're not hungry and drinking when you're not thirsty, but other than that, you've got what it takes to get it done. BTW, congrats on the BQ (been there).
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2012-04-10 6:21 AM in reply to: #4139226 |
Expert 1145 Ann Arbor, MI | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km Here are my steps for putting you into the ultra mentality. Camp out at the race start. Fuel with your choice of IPAs and pizza around a campfire the night before. Share your beer and listen to stories with other campers. Morning of the race, chat with other runners. Share your story and listen to theirs. Some will just be starting to run ultras while many more will have fifty and hundred plus mile races, multi-day stage races, thru-hikes, and other tests of extreme endurance under their buckles. Often, the people are even more amazing than the courses they're running. When the gun goes off, walk/jog for a few minutes to warm up. Make friends, make every moment fun, and hang on to everything that has gone right to get you here. I look at your post and I see a lot of numbers: distance numbers, elevation numbers, percentages, weight, age, PR numbers, etc. My advice for seeing this as an ultra: drop the numbers. Numbers don't mean anything in the long run (pun intended). It's about the form, not the formula. It's not an equation, it's an experience, and the experience is everything. |
2012-04-10 10:46 AM in reply to: #4139226 |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km Is it on the road or a trail? If you train/race by HR, keep your HR well into Z1/2 even if that means walking (uphill, or just if your HR starts to creep up). If it's on the road, expect typical marathon aid stations, and make sure you drink a fair amount. The exertion can be deceptive if you're used to running 7:30 miles and now are "loafing" along at 9 minutes/mile... Ultra attitude is about finishing, not about time (while the events are timed, they're typically titled "runs" not "races"). Be willing to jog along with a new found friend rather than a competitor you have to run down and crush. If you're still feeling good after 20 miles, you can pick it up in the last 6. |
2012-04-10 11:09 AM in reply to: #4139959 |
Master 1883 San Antone, Texas | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km yeats - 2012-04-10 6:21 AM Here are my steps for putting you into the ultra mentality. Camp out at the race start. Fuel with your choice of IPAs and pizza around a campfire the night before. Share your beer and listen to stories with other campers. Morning of the race, chat with other runners. Share your story and listen to theirs. Some will just be starting to run ultras while many more will have fifty and hundred plus mile races, multi-day stage races, thru-hikes, and other tests of extreme endurance under their buckles. Often, the people are even more amazing than the courses they're running. When the gun goes off, walk/jog for a few minutes to warm up. Make friends, make every moment fun, and hang on to everything that has gone right to get you here. I look at your post and I see a lot of numbers: distance numbers, elevation numbers, percentages, weight, age, PR numbers, etc. My advice for seeing this as an ultra: drop the numbers. Numbers don't mean anything in the long run (pun intended). It's about the form, not the formula. It's not an equation, it's an experience, and the experience is everything. ^^^ this. If I could copy and past it into my signature line, I would. |
2012-04-10 11:57 AM in reply to: #4139959 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km yeats - 2012-04-10 4:21 AM Here are my steps for putting you into the ultra mentality. ... Love your answer! Thanks- just what I needed. Yeah- you got me. I'm all about the numbers. When I race; I watch my HR, %LT, pace. My garmin virtual partner is set to my goal time or McMillan prediction of what's possible, etc etc. Of course- this isn't really an 'ultra', it's just a real B*&^$ of a road marathon. There won't be any camping before the start- but it will be an 'experience'. So, I'll land somewhere in between. Someday I will likely enter the Ultra fray. Perhaps a 50 miler for my 50th birthday (ack- only 2 years away). Edited by morey000 2012-04-10 12:10 PM |
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2012-04-10 12:04 PM in reply to: #4140719 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km McFuzz - 2012-04-10 8:46 AM Is it on the road or a trail? If you train/race by HR, keep your HR well into Z1/2 even if that means walking (uphill, or just if your HR starts to creep up). If it's on the road, expect typical marathon aid stations, and make sure you drink a fair amount. The exertion can be deceptive if you're used to running 7:30 miles and now are "loafing" along at 9 minutes/mile... Ultra attitude is about finishing, not about time (while the events are timed, they're typically titled "runs" not "races"). Be willing to jog along with a new found friend rather than a competitor you have to run down and crush. If you're still feeling good after 20 miles, you can pick it up in the last 6.
It's on the road. Water stations are sparse tho- 3-4mi apart, so I'll run with a small bottle to re-fill at each, and start downing my preffered flavor of Cliff shot bloks early. Yeah I train/race by HR. I got it: Z1/2 (with HR drift calculated in). The course climbs steadily 5-7% to 20mi, and from there it's rolling hills, so whatever I've got left for those last miles. that's the plan. |
2012-04-13 6:46 PM in reply to: #4139226 |
Champion 5312 Calgary | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km If you are a numbers person then that is cool. Doesn't mean you cant have a blast. The key is to not go too fast. In theory your effort level for a 50k would not be much less than your effort level for a marathon on the same type of course, if of course you are trained to do the 50k. But that is the theory. Anyways. Your long run on the weekend is solid but 2000ft isn 6000ft, but you know that. Sure be nothing like climbing a mile into the sky I guess. Sounds like a blast. But yeah, drink enough. Suppose this wasnt much help. |
2012-04-13 9:55 PM in reply to: #4139959 |
Veteran 468 STATESBORO, GA | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km yeats - 2012-04-10 6:21 AM Here are my steps for putting you into the ultra mentality. 3years on BT and a long time lurker who has not made the plunge into ultra. Of all the post I've read this is the most inspiring and best reminder of what all races of any challange should be! Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience. It made my night better. My experience at st. George in 3 weeks and my entire endurance life will be better. Simply awesome. |
2012-04-14 10:23 AM in reply to: #4139226 |
Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km I did it the first year. I can tell you what not to do. Some dude stopped part way and laid down and took a nap. Woke up covered in ants. I just raced by HR. I knew from training that if I went above a certain level I'd be in trouble. So I just stayed under that number, kept a nice easy pace, and all was well. It's a fun race, enjoy the day. |
2012-04-15 11:44 PM in reply to: #4150355 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: 26.2 vs 50Km took a nice jog up the Lemmon this morning. As it's 2 weeks out- I only did 12 mi (3500ft vert.) it was surprisingly pleasant. Going up is quite a bit slower, but far less pounding than running on the flat. yeah- it'll be a long grind, but frankly, I can't wait. Oddly, the part of the race I'm not looking forward to is when I crest that 8200ft level at 19.5mi and have to start running down. |
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