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2012-04-23 7:40 PM

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Subject: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

A couple months ago, I bought myself a Specialized Secteur Sport Triple.  I love it, but I bought it when I was unsure if I wanted to really get into road biking, so I bought a low model with pretty entry level components (mostly Sora).  Now that I LOVE biking, I'm looking at either upgrading my road bike to a better one, or picking up a triathlon bike.  My MAX price range is $2000.  There's a lot of road bikes I can upgrade to at that price, but if I got a triathlon bike, I'd probably pick up the Cannondale Slice 5 105.  Checked it out this weekend and I loved it.  I figure I need to have a road bike for local meetups and rides where tri bikes aren't allowed, so either way I'd have a road bike. 

When I went to the Cannondale dealership, the guy I spoke with was telling me that the tri-bikes are so great because they're lighter, faster, and easier to transition from biking to running, because you use different leg muscles than you do when running.  Is this all true?  If so, do most tri bike riders primarily ride their tri-bikes?  If I do hill climbs, are tri-bikes a LOT worse, or just harder in general than road bikes?  Any other differences I should be aware of? 



2012-04-23 8:12 PM
in reply to: #4168466

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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

Without going too deep into it...learn about bike fits and their importance.  Lots of threads about them, so I won't go into detail besides encouraging you to strongly weigh a bike fit into your thought process.

Ok...that being said...on to your specific questions.

1.  Assuming you know which bikes fit you, looking used is a good way to get maximum value on a tight budget.

2.  Tri bikes put you in a more aerodamic position.  Thus making you faster when you're in the aero position (on the aero bars).  Other than that, a tri bike frame in itself is not really faster than a road bike.  Maybe a few seconds faster due to more aerodynamic frame shapes...but the frame doesn't make nearly as much a difference as people think.  It's certainly NOT lighter...they usually run about 2-3 pounds heavier than a road bike made of similar material.

3.  The theory about using different running muscles to improve your run is more of a myth.  There hasn't been any significant studies to actually prove it helps you run.  Most people who claim they suddenly run better now that they are using a tri bike are likely seeing the simple benefits of increased running and biking fitness now that they've been in the sport for a longer time.  You may also feel that you run better because you're simply spending less time biking.  If you're simply more aerodynamic, you'll go faster at the same effort level.  Which means you spend less time biking at that effort level...which means more energy left for the run.

4.  What bike you ride most of the time during training is up to you.  I prefer to ride my road bike whenever possible...but that's just me.  I also like to group ride.

5.  Climbing on a tri bike is a little more challenging.  First, the bike weighs more, and you don't have as many comfortable hand positions to choose from.  Your handlebar setup might also be a bit lower than you'd like to climb.  So while not ideal, it's not like it's impossible either to climb on a tri bike.

6.  I think you should know that the Slice is not meant to fit everyone.  In general, it's meant for people with long legs and a short torso.  Some tri bikes can be made to fit a wider range of body types...not so much the Slice.  If you're a short leg, long torso person...you'd probably shouldn't even consider the Slice.



Edited by tri808 2012-04-23 8:14 PM
2012-04-23 8:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

Depends on what you want to do.  Tri bikes are made for non-draft racing, while road bikes are more versatile and comfortable for longer-distance rides. I love my Tri bike but really don't think I'd want to take on the Alps with it.  If you want to road ride 90% of the time then get a better roadie and use it for the occasional tri.  If what you really want to do is tri and need a roadie for the occasional ride with the buds, get the Slice.

Awesome advise, huh?

2012-04-24 12:22 PM
in reply to: #4168531

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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
tri808 - 2012-04-23 6:12 PM

Without going too deep into it...learn about bike fits and their importance.  Lots of threads about them, so I won't go into detail besides encouraging you to strongly weigh a bike fit into your thought process.

Ok...that being said...on to your specific questions.

1.  Assuming you know which bikes fit you, looking used is a good way to get maximum value on a tight budget.

2.  Tri bikes put you in a more aerodamic position.  Thus making you faster when you're in the aero position (on the aero bars).  Other than that, a tri bike frame in itself is not really faster than a road bike.  Maybe a few seconds faster due to more aerodynamic frame shapes...but the frame doesn't make nearly as much a difference as people think.  It's certainly NOT lighter...they usually run about 2-3 pounds heavier than a road bike made of similar material.

3.  The theory about using different running muscles to improve your run is more of a myth.  There hasn't been any significant studies to actually prove it helps you run.  Most people who claim they suddenly run better now that they are using a tri bike are likely seeing the simple benefits of increased running and biking fitness now that they've been in the sport for a longer time.  You may also feel that you run better because you're simply spending less time biking.  If you're simply more aerodynamic, you'll go faster at the same effort level.  Which means you spend less time biking at that effort level...which means more energy left for the run.

4.  What bike you ride most of the time during training is up to you.  I prefer to ride my road bike whenever possible...but that's just me.  I also like to group ride.

5.  Climbing on a tri bike is a little more challenging.  First, the bike weighs more, and you don't have as many comfortable hand positions to choose from.  Your handlebar setup might also be a bit lower than you'd like to climb.  So while not ideal, it's not like it's impossible either to climb on a tri bike.

6.  I think you should know that the Slice is not meant to fit everyone.  In general, it's meant for people with long legs and a short torso.  Some tri bikes can be made to fit a wider range of body types...not so much the Slice.  If you're a short leg, long torso person...you'd probably shouldn't even consider the Slice.

Thank you for all the information.  It's really leading me to upgrade my road bike instead of investing in a tri-bike right now.  I love climbing, and love group rides, which might not always want to include triathlon bikes.  This year, I'm doing a Sprint, an Olympic, and if training goes as planned, I might do a HIM in October, but not sure yet.  I think I can get away with a road bike for all three of those, and maybe then next year add a triathlon bike.  Might be a dumb question...but having a good road bike on a HIM should be fine right?  I can already ride 56 miles, but would incorporate bricks into my training to work on the running part after. 

2012-04-24 12:23 PM
in reply to: #4168534

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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Oysterboy - 2012-04-23 6:13 PM

Depends on what you want to do.  Tri bikes are made for non-draft racing, while road bikes are more versatile and comfortable for longer-distance rides. I love my Tri bike but really don't think I'd want to take on the Alps with it.  If you want to road ride 90% of the time then get a better roadie and use it for the occasional tri.  If what you really want to do is tri and need a roadie for the occasional ride with the buds, get the Slice.

Awesome advise, huh?

Great advice actually.  I'm pretty much decided on upgrading my current road bike, and then see if I'm into tri's enough to buy a tri bike.  Maybe next year.  Thanks!

2012-04-24 4:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
djake80 - 2012-04-24 12:23 PM
Oysterboy - 2012-04-23 6:13 PM

Depends on what you want to do.  Tri bikes are made for non-draft racing, while road bikes are more versatile and comfortable for longer-distance rides. I love my Tri bike but really don't think I'd want to take on the Alps with it.  If you want to road ride 90% of the time then get a better roadie and use it for the occasional tri.  If what you really want to do is tri and need a roadie for the occasional ride with the buds, get the Slice.

Awesome advise, huh?

Great advice actually.  I'm pretty much decided on upgrading my current road bike, and then see if I'm into tri's enough to buy a tri bike.  Maybe next year.  Thanks!

 

Great approach and what i would have recommended. Tri808 post is right on. The aero advantages of a tri  bike are somewhat exaggerated. Take a look at the Brits: they are kicking our mostly on road bikes with clip ons.



Edited by Bonafide505 2012-04-24 4:21 PM


2012-04-24 4:24 PM
in reply to: #4170604

Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

Bonafide505 - 2012-04-24 5:19 PM

Take a look at the Brits: they are kicking our mostly on road bikes with clip ons.

Uh ... draft legal?

2012-04-24 6:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
djake80 - 2012-04-24 12:22 PM
tri808 - 2012-04-23 6:12 PM

Thank you for all the information.  It's really leading me to upgrade my road bike instead of investing in a tri-bike right now.  I love climbing, and love group rides, which might not always want to include triathlon bikes.  This year, I'm doing a Sprint, an Olympic, and if training goes as planned, I might do a HIM in October, but not sure yet.  I think I can get away with a road bike for all three of those, and maybe then next year add a triathlon bike.  Might be a dumb question...but having a good road bike on a HIM should be fine right?  I can already ride 56 miles, but would incorporate bricks into my training to work on the running part after. 

I volunteered at the Boise 70.3 last year and saw as least two people riding mtn bikes! I was stationed at the turn and they were a fair bit ahead of the bike cut-off. So I'd say you'll be fine with your upgraded roadie. Hell with your budget you should be able to put together a really fine machine. Let the questions about which is the better upgrade begin!!!

PS: Don't ask me, I don't know those answers! :-)

 

2012-04-24 7:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-24 6:19 PM

The aero advantages of a tri  bike are somewhat exaggerated. Take a look at the Brits: they are kicking our mostly on road bikes with clip ons.



According to my testing, the differences between my road bike with aerobars and tribike is about 3s/km. So 2 minutes over a 40km ride which seems pretty significant to me.

As to the Brits, it is probably worth bearing in mind that they are racing a draft legal event and are required to ride a road bike.

Shane
2012-04-24 7:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

I have the Specialized Tarmac and added the clip on aero bars and completed two 70.3's with them. Last year I bought the Cannondale Slice 5 and what a difference I am faster coming off the bike with what seems like less effort. The bike handles awesome smooth handle corners great seems to want to stay under you. I added the Speedplay Zeros, swapped the Fizik Saddle for the ISM Adamo Prologue and put on the Vittoria Diamente Pro tires. Tired of getting flats on the schwalbe's by just looking at them.

 

Good luck

2012-04-24 7:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Based on the description of your current roadie, a mid range tri bike may in fact be much lighter!


2012-04-25 12:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
I'm thinking I'm just going to sell my current road bike, add some extra, and pick up a carbon road bike.  Thinking Cannondale Super Six or Cannondale Carbon Synapse; both with 105.  Then after doing a few tri's, pick up a tri bike next year.  
2012-04-25 3:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Probably the right move.  If you only have one bike, a roady is the way to go.  I just built a road bike and wife picked up a tri bike for me for my B-day.  Took it out a couple days ago and wow....there is a learning curve to these vs. a road bike!  I will say, for the short ride I took it was faster but I can see it's limitations vs a road bike under certain circumstances.  Aside from being more aero they are designed to open your hip angle up keeping you fresh for the run.  There are PLENTY of people that do an HIM on a road bike so I say go for the road bike, more "bang for the buck" also!  
2012-04-25 5:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
If someone were just starting out in triathlon and had never spent much time on a bike other than perhaps their mountain bike, than for sure a road bike is their best option.

It is simply more forgiving when it comes to cornering, climbing and overall control and has many different hand positions options with the traditional "drop handlebars".

It's a great way to learn bike-handling skills and gain some confidence.

If the rider is happy with the fit and feel of the bike --which is critical-- especially if they have the ability to run strong right after a good bike workout than the natural progression would be to "accessorize" the road bike with profile-bars, clip-less pedals etc. once they are ready to take on triathlons that are perhaps of a bit greater distance...say from the Olympic Distance and up as opposed to try-a-tri's and sprints distances.

There may never be a need to go the tri-bike route if you find the perfect road bike for you.

Often if someone has a great Ironman result they will assume that if they get a more expensive, seemingly faster tricked out triathlon bike that they will have even better results.

I had a great Ironman one year with my best bike and run splits ever and than I fell into that trap. I did that race on a Nishiki Altron back in the day and it had an aluminum frame. I came off my best bike spit ever and ran a 3:34 marathon as a 40 something age-grouper.

I went out and bought a Trek Y-Foil and it looked cool and cost three times what my Nishiki cost, but I was certain it would result in an even faster race. However it was a disaster in the next 3 Ironman races.

Like many tri-bikes of the day it was configured for straight-ahead speed. It was more difficult to control, stiffer, and it got harder and harder to stay in the profile position and keep by head sighting ahead as I got more and more tired.

I never came close to matching the bike time or race result again and most likely the biggest mistake I ever made was not staying with the bike that perfect for me.




Edited by ytriguy 2012-04-25 5:52 AM
2012-04-25 6:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
I may have missed it but what is wrong with your current bike that you feel the need to upgrade?
2012-04-25 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
What are you trying to achieve by upgrading?  I doubt your current bike is holding you back, so what do you gain by getting a better/more expensive road bike?  What do you potentially gain by keeping it and getting a tri bike?


2012-04-25 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

gsmacleod - 2012-04-24 7:23 PM
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-24 6:19 PM The aero advantages of a tri  bike are somewhat exaggerated. Take a look at the Brits: they are kicking our mostly on road bikes with clip ons.
According to my testing, the differences between my road bike with aerobars and tribike is about 3s/km. So 2 minutes over a 40km ride which seems pretty significant to me. As to the Brits, it is probably worth bearing in mind that they are racing a draft legal event and are required to ride a road bike. Shane

 

According to Len brownlie, PHD Sports Aerodynamicist,  the savings are 17 seconds /40k for a TT frame.

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Buying-Time-Which-Aero-Equipment-Offers-the-Most-Benefits.htm?page=2

 

 

2012-04-25 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-25 10:21 AM

gsmacleod - 2012-04-24 7:23 PM
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-24 6:19 PM The aero advantages of a tri  bike are somewhat exaggerated. Take a look at the Brits: they are kicking our mostly on road bikes with clip ons.
According to my testing, the differences between my road bike with aerobars and tribike is about 3s/km. So 2 minutes over a 40km ride which seems pretty significant to me. As to the Brits, it is probably worth bearing in mind that they are racing a draft legal event and are required to ride a road bike. Shane

 

According to Len brownlie, PHD Sports Aerodynamicist,  the savings are 17 seconds /40k for a TT frame.

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Buying-Time-Which-Aero-Equipment-Offers-the-Most-Benefits.htm?page=2

 

 

Can't access those sites so maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me the greatest aerodynamic advantage of a tri bike is not the aerodynamics of the frame but the position it puts the rider in.
2012-04-25 10:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

I started on a Secteur Sport Compact.  Fine, but I hated the Sora (I know some people do just fine) and wanted a slightly more aggressive position.  I upgraded to a Canndondale CAAD10 105.  Love, love love it.  If you like the Cannondales, don't underestimate their ability to make a first class, race-worthy aluminum bike, while saving you money.

 

 



Edited by Goosedog 2012-04-25 10:35 AM
2012-04-25 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Goosedog - 2012-04-25 11:35 AM

I started on a Secteur Sport Compact.  Fine, but I hated the Sora (I know some people do just fine) and wanted a slightly more aggressive position.  I upgraded to a Canndondale CAAD10 105.  Love, love love it.  If you like the Cannondales, don't underestimate their ability to make a first class, race-worthy aluminum bike, while saving you money.

 

 

Did u put clip on aero bars on it? Race wheels? Also, how did u make your position more aggressive?
2012-04-25 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-25 12:21 PM

According to Len brownlie, PHD Sports Aerodynamicist,  the savings are 17 seconds /40k for a TT frame.


There are two things that I would point out wrt to those numbers:

1) The numbers are based off a rider at 50km/h where time savings are compressed due to the nature of air drag
2) The 17s are based upon simply a frame change, not a position change

Further, this test shows results similar to what I've found in my field testing in both the wind tunnel and a road test:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/

All else being equal, there may only be a difference of 17s between my road bike and tribike, however, all else is not equal. While I have a solid road racing position and my position with aerobars on the road bike is not bad, my tribike allows me to have a much lower positioin while keeping my hip angle open. The end result is not only the aerodynamic difference between the two frames but also the reduction in CdA I can attain on the steeper geometry tribike.

Shane


2012-04-25 11:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Well let's compare apples to apples. You can get in a very similar position on a road bike therefore we should only look at those values- not rider position.
2012-04-25 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
My problem with the roadbikereview study is the rider position. He is clearly lower on the transition. He could easily get lower with a different stem.  
2012-04-25 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-25 1:04 PM

Well let's compare apples to apples. You can get in a very similar position on a road bike therefore we should only look at those values- not rider position.


I cannot replicate my tribike position on my road bike; that's the whole point of having a tribike.

Shane
2012-04-25 11:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Tri bike or upgrade my roadie?

gsmacleod - 2012-04-25 11:08 AM
Bonafide505 - 2012-04-25 1:04 PM Well let's compare apples to apples. You can get in a very similar position on a road bike therefore we should only look at those values- not rider position.
I cannot replicate my tribike position on my road bike; that's the whole point of having a tribike. Shane

 

I can with an inverted stem. And i thought the whole point was aero profile reduction?

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