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2012-04-26 9:24 AM

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Subject: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

Here's the story

From the article: A legally blind athlete is suing three triathlon groups over a rule that makes him and other vision-impaired runners wear blackout glasses -- leaving them temporarily sightless -- in a controversial effort to "level the playing field.''

The groups are USAT, ITU, and 3-D Racing. I'm not entirely sure I understand the law related to voluntary events such as this, but my opinion is that if he chooses to race in this category, the rules are the rules for all.

Here's the rule (sorry about the formatting):

 17.14. Paratriathlon TRI 6 Conduct:

a.) The following additional rules apply to all visually impaired (TRI 6) paratriathlete and their guides:

(i) All paratriathletes must have a guide of the same gender. Both athlete and guide will hold a license from the same National Federation.

(ii) Each paratriathletes is allowed a maximum of one (1) guide during each race.

(iii) All paratriathletes must be tethered during the swim. The tether may be used around the waist, leg or foot.

(iv) All paratriathletes and guides must use a tandem bicycle. The specifications of the tandem bicycle are as follows:

• A tandem is a vehicle for two riders, with two wheels of equal diameter, which conforms to the general principles of UCI construction for bicycles. The front wheel shall be steerable by the front rider, known as the pilot. Both riders shall face forward in the traditional cycling position and the rear wheel shall be driven by both cyclists through a system comprising pedals and chains;

• The tandem top tube and any additional strengthening tubes, may slope to suit the morphological sizes of the riders.

(v) A paratriathlete must respect a waiting period of twelve (12) months after his/her last elite ITU event before competing as a guide.

(vi) All guides must comply with minimum age requirements as per the ITU Competition Rules Appendix A.

(vii) In the event of an injury or illness, and upon presentation of a medical certificate, a guide may be replaced up to 24 hours before the official start of the competition. No changes will be allowed after this deadline.

(viii) All TRI 6 paratriathletes must be tethered during the run. They may receive verbal instructions only from their guide.

(ix) All TRI 6 paratriathletes shall use approved "black out glasses" during the entire run portion (beginning at their assigned space in the transition area.

 



Edited by BrianRunsPhilly 2012-04-26 9:25 AM


2012-04-26 9:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

Ridiculous.  Are they also going to require all amputees to be amputated in the same spot?  All wheel chair competitors to be paralyzed from the same point?  Those who have use of their abdominal muscles have a clear advantage over those who don't...

Those that are completely blind have also more fully adapted to it in day to day life so it doesn't achieve the goal of leveling the playing field anyways.  An already blind person would have an advantage over any of us if we suddenly had our sight taken away.  I suspect the same could be said of fully blind people over those who are just made fully blind for racing.

2012-04-26 9:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
I don't understand how not wearing the black out glasses would give him an advantage over anyone else. Just because you can kind of see where you are going if you are partially blind, doesn't make them any faster or better with they are with their guide. That rule make no sense at all! That seems like a punishment!
2012-04-26 9:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

That makes perfect sense to me? Correct me if I'm wrong - but he doesn't have to wear them to compete, he has to wear them to compete as a vision-impaired athlete.

cafenervosa - 2012-04-26 10:43 AM I don't understand how not wearing the black out glasses would give him an advantage over anyone else.

The "else" being blind, not the legally blind. I consider some vision a considerable advantage over none.

 



Edited by JASpencer 2012-04-26 9:48 AM
2012-04-26 9:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses


Edited by JASpencer 2012-04-26 9:49 AM
2012-04-26 9:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

I have met at camp an impressive visually impaired triathlete Micheal Stone. He even does Xterra races. He and his guide have worked out a system where they each ride their own bike. They have worked out system of following and of yelling out obstacles that is unique.

Here is a blurb about him....impressive guy who works to inspire kids with visual impairments to dream big.



2012-04-26 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
I don't know. Van Damme seemed to do ok when blinded in "Bloodsport"...
2012-04-26 9:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

This reminds me of runner Aimee Mullins http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/aimee_mullins_on_running.html

She's a double amputee (below the knee), runs on prosthetic legs. Went to her first paralympics running event, and saw that many of the people she was competing against were disabled in ways much less relevant to running (ex: missing hand). Didn't seem fair to her... but didn't seem to discourage her, either.

2012-04-26 9:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
JASpencer - 2012-04-26 9:46 AM

That makes perfect sense to me? Correct me if I'm wrong - but he doesn't have to wear them to compete, he has to wear them to compete as a vision-impaired athlete.

cafenervosa - 2012-04-26 10:43 AM I don't understand how not wearing the black out glasses would give him an advantage over anyone else.

The "else" being blind, not the legally blind. I consider some vision a considerable advantage over none.

 

Agreed. A few of my friends are discussing this on Facebook this morning. That's a sticky one...I can see why the suing athlete is upset...but it's also not easy to create a category like this and have it fit everyone. Having 20% vision, I would agree with JASpencer, is an advantage over having absolutely none, as this man learned when he tried running in the blackout glasses. It would obviously require him to train for a while in them and learn to run with them.

But even for fully able-bodied triathletes, you can't level the playing field either, other than by sex and age. Even within those groups there are different body weights, illnesses, histories and any of a hundred other factors that may cause you to be faster or slower. Such is the slippery slope of political correctness and trying to make everybody feel equal. It is deceptively difficult to do, maybe impossible.

On an aside, I never thought about a blind person competing in a triathlon. Why not, I guess...but the part that baffles me is the bike. How do they get it so that a blind person can ride somewhat safely in a group? Is it as simple as having a guide/partner who gives them verbal coaching along the way to keep them in the right direction and a safe distance from others?



Edited by Neek-neek 2012-04-26 10:00 AM
2012-04-26 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

Neek-neek - 2012-04-26 10:59 AM How do they get it so that a blind person can ride somewhat safely in a group? Is it as simple as having a guide/partner who gives them verbal coaching along the way to keep them in the right direction and a safe distance from others?

Tandem.  See above.

 

 

2012-04-26 10:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

The inference that I take away is the rules drafters thought there might be some unfair advantage held by partially-sighted competitors versus those who were completely blind.  Maybe good in theory, but impossible to administer in the real world. 

This whole thing reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron, set in the future when the Constitution was amended to insure that everyone is equal and the Handicapper General enforced the laws of equality by applying idiotic "handicaps" to those who were more talented, smarter, etc.

Without sounding too cruel or heartless, the fact is that life isn't always fair and there's no way to legislate a completely even playing field.   

That being said, if those filing the lawsuit are doing so on the basis of safety reasons, I'd go along with that.  If their ultimate objective is to maintain or gain some type of competitive advantage, then I think that's sad.   

Mark



2012-04-26 10:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

I don't know,  i had a friend who participated in a soccer event for the visually impaired (She is legally blind).  the ball made a beeping noise.  Everyone was required to wear blackout glasses.  Nobody complained, everyone had an equal amount of sight, and everyone had fun..

2012-04-26 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
Yes, this applies to athletes who are competing in a specific division. Likely someone who is completely blind would feel he or she was at a disadvantage to a partially sighted athlete. I can understand why they would want to make the palying field within their division equitable.
2012-04-26 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

I can see trying to level the playing field but in biggest context it makes no sense. How does our abilities, genetics, weight and all that come into play when we race. It isn't like we are all equal ability going into any race.

Partially blind triathlete taking away what little vision he or she has, makes them compete in a manner they are not used to. Imagine having 20% sight then for your runs 3-4 hours a week they take that 20% away. How long will it take the athlete to adjust to that? In a way a fully blind person now has an advantage as they are used to having no sight. Even running with a guide there is a safety issue for guide, athlete and other athletes.

They idea of making things fair or even seems a bit over the top in this situation.

Otherwise they should make Age Groups made up of folks all same age, not 5 year span, everyone in Athena and Clydes weigh exactly the same, make everyone with same genetic abilities compete. It's impossible to make it level playing field for healthy well bodied folks.

Red Corvettes thoughts are quite interesting.

2012-04-26 10:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
this would be like if they took away my contacts/glasses for a race. There is no way I could compete, even running on a lined track without my glasses is hard. It messes with my depth perception.

This cannot be a safe rule, but it is a rule and if you decided you want to compete in their races (PRIVATE races, too, by my understanding) then you must abide by their rules, no matter how stupid.

The alternative is to not choose to race those races, no?
2012-04-26 10:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
Goosedog - 2012-04-26 10:00 AM

Neek-neek - 2012-04-26 10:59 AM How do they get it so that a blind person can ride somewhat safely in a group? Is it as simple as having a guide/partner who gives them verbal coaching along the way to keep them in the right direction and a safe distance from others?

Tandem.  See above.

 

 

 

Drr. I only read the article and not the rules, sorry.



2012-04-26 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

So I know Aaron, the athlete who is suing. 

But mostly, I'm friends with one of his primary guides: Matt West. I've been his swim coach for years. 

 

Initially, I feel like Aaron shouldn't be forced to wear those goggles. The measure of the race is on fitness. Its Aaron's training that is most impeded by his blindness. On race day, making everyone have the same exact lack of vision just makes things more dangerous. I hope Aaron wins. 

That said, I asked Matt what he thought. He wouldn't even comment. Perhaps there's more to this. I don't know. 

But with what I know, I currently think that making Aaron wear those goggles is totally unjustified. That's my opinion pending more information. 

2012-04-26 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

What if I have a condition where my leg is only 20% as strong as a normal leg.  Sort of like someone who is legally blind has 20% the vision of a normal person.  Should I be allowed to compete in the paratriathlete division?  Wouldn't that give me an unfair advantage over someone who has absolutely no leg?

 

 

2012-04-26 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
tri808 - 2012-04-26 12:26 PM

What if I have a condition where my leg is only 20% as strong as a normal leg.  Sort of like someone who is legally blind has 20% the vision of a normal person.  Should I be allowed to compete in the paratriathlete division?  Wouldn't that give me an unfair advantage over someone who has absolutely no leg?

 

 



Are you switching the argument to someone that is legally blind, is not blind enough to complete in the division?
2012-04-26 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

This is an interesting debate. I also suggest it may be a rather simple one.

The essence of competitive sport is pitting one set of abilities against another to measure an outcome.

Crucial to this is disparity between abilities.

When disparity of abilities are mitigated the activity changes materially.

It is no longer as essential.

While there are rules that moderate external technology and voluntary conduct, rules that govern innate capabilities affect the essential purpose of competitive events: To measure athletic disparity.

The extrapolation of this would be to administratively compel faster athletes to slow down, lighter athletes to carry more weight, stronger athletes to meter their effort so as to acheive effective parody with other athletes.

This would entirely erase the compelling reason to administer competitives events: To measure differences.

 

2012-04-26 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

Other than hoping visually impaired athletes had input into the establishment of the rule, I don't care about the rule either way.  However, if the rule applies to all legally blind athletes that participate, I don't understand how the rule discriminates against the plaintiff on the basis of his disability?  The plaintiff's attorney suggests that it is because the rule doesn't apply to able-bodied athletes.  This logic would make all rules applicable to paratriathletes illegal.  I only read the article.

 

 

 



2012-04-26 1:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
First world problem if I ever heard of one.

We are talking about competition. I don't anything is preventing him from participating without the glasses, just in qualifying for an award.
2012-04-26 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses

I guess the question is, how can a blind person read this topic on the internet and be able to defend themselves rather than us deciding for them

this is a tuff one though, my bro-inlaw is legally blind, he can't drive but he doesn't need a cain or anything to get around and function. in fact he actually plays pool etc from time to time so he can obviously function, knows what he is doing, is able to get around without bumping into things etc.

But how do we decide? do we make them wear black out glasses making them at a disadvantage becuase they are not used to it, at the same time they have the advantage of still be able to see corners, sticks, bumps, ruts in the trail etc the the 100% blind person has to rely on the guide for.

Tough to say

2012-04-26 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
running2far - 2012-04-26 7:32 AM
tri808 - 2012-04-26 12:26 PM

What if I have a condition where my leg is only 20% as strong as a normal leg.  Sort of like someone who is legally blind has 20% the vision of a normal person.  Should I be allowed to compete in the paratriathlete division?  Wouldn't that give me an unfair advantage over someone who has absolutely no leg?

 

 

Are you switching the argument to someone that is legally blind, is not blind enough to complete in the division?

Yes.  But I guess I would have to know more details of what the rules actually are.  If there is a blind division...does legally blind count as blind?  Just because parts of society considers legally blind as blind...it doesn't mean that a race organization has to as well.  If the race organization wants to allow legally blind athletes to participate in the blind division given a few stipulations (they have to wear black out glasses), then I don't see a problem.

If I were the race organization...I and I lost a lawsuit like this...I would simply change my rules to say that only 100% blind people can participate in the blind division...or that EVERYONE in the blind division (regardless if you can see nothing or 10%) has to wear black out glasses.  Problem solved.



Edited by tri808 2012-04-26 2:03 PM
2012-04-26 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Partially blind triathlete sues over requirement he wear blackout glasses
tri808 - 2012-04-26 3:02 PM

If I were the race organization...I and I lost a lawsuit like this...I would simply change my rules to say that only 100% blind people can participate in the blind division...or that EVERYONE in the blind division (regardless if you can see nothing or 10%) has to wear black out glasses.  Problem solved.

This is the rule now:  (ix) All TRI 6 paratriathletes shall use approved "black out glasses" during the entire run portion (beginning at their assigned space in the transition area.

So, problem not really solved.

 

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