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2012-05-10 5:02 PM

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Expert
893
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Livermore, Ca
Subject: flat to climbing mile times
Hi All,
I'm going to try a half marathon in 6 weeks. The challenge is going to be the elevation change during the race. All my training is on flat, level ground. The race however, has over 10000 ft of elevation change. Are there any general rules of thumb for mile times going from a flat to hilly terrain?


2012-05-10 5:09 PM
in reply to: #4203357

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Champion
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Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

10,000 ft?

Pray.

2012-05-10 5:12 PM
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2012-05-10 5:13 PM
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2012-05-10 5:17 PM
in reply to: #4203369

Master
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Salt Lake City
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
Experior - 2012-05-10 3:09 PM

10,000 ft?

Pray.

And don't forget your mountaineering gear.

2012-05-10 5:27 PM
in reply to: #4203357

Champion
5781
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Northridge, California
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

How fast do you walk?

Seriously.  If this is your first half and you haven't trained on hills, it's almost guaranteed that you will be walking A LOT in a half with that much climbing.

To answer you more generally:  There might not be that much difference in overall time, if the net elevation change is near zero...in other words, if there is a downhill to make up for every uphill.  On the couple very hilly HMs I've done (which started and finished close to the same elevation), my time wasn't far off my typical time for a flat course (and still faster than my HIM run splits, for that matter).  OTOH, if it's +10,000' of net elevation change (i.e., if this is a run up a mountain), then all bets are off.



2012-05-10 5:43 PM
in reply to: #4203357

Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

This has to be a typo...I'm guessing 1,000 feet?

I don't think there is a road on this planet that gains 10k feet in 13.1 miles.

 

 

2012-05-10 5:45 PM
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2012-05-10 5:50 PM
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Pro
6520
50001000500
Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
Are you sure you didn't add an extra zero in there?  I did a quick search and found nothing even close to that much elevation gain.  If in fact it is 10k up you are in a serious world of hurt. 
2012-05-10 5:53 PM
in reply to: #4203413

Champion
5781
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Northridge, California
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
tri808 - 2012-05-10 3:43 PM

This has to be a typo...I'm guessing 1,000 feet?

I don't think there is a road on this planet that gains 10k feet in 13.1 miles.

There are organized trail events around here that fit the bill...the run up Mt. Baldy is about 10,000' of gain in 12 miles, I believe.

2012-05-10 5:54 PM
in reply to: #4203397

Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
tcovert - 2012-05-10 12:27 PM

How fast do you walk?

Seriously.  If this is your first half and you haven't trained on hills, it's almost guaranteed that you will be walking A LOT in a half with that much climbing.

To answer you more generally:  There might not be that much difference in overall time, if the net elevation change is near zero...in other words, if there is a downhill to make up for every uphill.  On the couple very hilly HMs I've done (which started and finished close to the same elevation), my time wasn't far off my typical time for a flat course (and still faster than my HIM run splits, for that matter).  OTOH, if it's +10,000' of net elevation change (i.e., if this is a run up a mountain), then all bets are off.

Small rollers might not affect your overall time...but climbing steep hills will.  You can't simply make up the amount of time lost.  If so...people wouldn't be looking for flat courses to BQ on.

If there exists course that has a hill so steep (maybe 20%) that I have to walk up the first 6.65 miles at a 20:00 pace...that will take me over 2 hours.  I'd have to run the downhill so fast that I would have to travel back in time to come close to my 1:41 HM PR.



2012-05-10 5:56 PM
in reply to: #4203357

Regular
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Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

I agree that this has to be a typo, because for example the Mt. Evans Ascent, which is considered one of the toughest uphill shorter distance races gains about 4,000 ft in 14 miles or so.

My recommendation would be to find a treadmill and practice pacing at different slopes.  1000 feet of climbing is relatively a lot for a HM.  Expect your avg pace to be significantly (30 sec/mile? just a guess) slower, esp if its your first time running this distance.

2012-05-10 5:56 PM
in reply to: #4203418

Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
Fred D - 2012-05-10 12:45 PM
tri808 - 2012-05-10 6:43 PM

This has to be a typo...I'm guessing 1,000 feet?

I don't think there is a road on this planet that gains 10k feet in 13.1 miles.

 

 

Mount everest?

Does the "road" go up that much?  I'd imagine there would be a lot of switchbacks that would lengthen the route, and decrease the grade. 

2012-05-10 6:09 PM
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Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
Experior - 2012-05-10 5:09 PM

10,000 ft?

Pray.

Good advice here.

2012-05-10 8:14 PM
in reply to: #4203357

Expert
893
500100100100252525
Livermore, Ca
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
It's actually a trail run, the double dipsea. The elevation change is closer to 4000' one way; total of about 8000'. It's a out-and-back path so the total change is zero.
2012-05-10 10:06 PM
in reply to: #4203357

Master
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Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

Double dipsea is about 4000ft

Round-Trip Length:13.7 milesStart-End Elevation:132' - 88' (1,370' max elevation)Elevation Change:-44' net elevation loss (+4,112' total roundtrip elevation gain)

 

quad is 9000 and 26+ miles



2012-05-10 10:14 PM
in reply to: #4203357

Veteran
294
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Mission Viejo,
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
Best of luck with that, and, don't forget your cramp-ons and extra oxygen bottles!
2012-05-10 10:22 PM
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Master
1686
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Royersford, PA
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
THe Pike's Peak Half might be somewhere in the 10,000 ft range. Definitely bring oxygen.
2012-05-10 10:49 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

To answer your original question, no, I don't think there's a good formula to compare flat miles to what you are about to do... it's just too different.

When you say "try" a half marathon, does this mean that you haven't ran one before (flat or not)?

2012-05-10 10:51 PM
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Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times

nbo10 - 2012-05-10 8:14 PM It's actually a trail run, the double dipsea. The elevation change is closer to 4000' one way; total of about 8000'. It's a out-and-back path so the total change is zero.

Usually with elevation changes, what's meant is the amount of ascending. Not the combined ascending and descending. How much of that is there?

I'm not sure of a good conversion. It's rather dependent on the individual's ability, size and the terrain. "Quite noticeably slower" will have to suffice.

And Pike's Peak half marathon (and full) do get up near 10,000. I think it's like 8,000 or so.



Edited by brigby1 2012-05-10 10:53 PM
2012-05-11 1:02 AM
in reply to: #4203811

Expert
893
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Livermore, Ca
Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
I haven't ran a half marathon race, but I have completed the distance in a training run. But of course, that was a couple years ago.

The race just sounds "fun".


2012-05-11 7:09 AM
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New user
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Subject: RE: flat to climbing mile times
A course like that could easily take you 70% longer than a flat road race.
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