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2012-06-20 7:45 AM

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Subject: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?

I'm a little befuddled this morning as I analyze my swim times.

Disclaimer 1: I am no Dara Torres. I am slooooooow, and have only been swimming for about a year and a half. Disclaimer 2: I am not doing this to get faster in the pool -- I'm doing this to get proficient in a triathlon. I know that in the great scheme of things, a few seconds on a lap doesn't really matter to my overall goal.

Still, after I did some 100 m "sprints" this morning I can't help getting discouraged. My average sprint time is a full six seconds slower than my best 100 m session, a few months ago. Flipping through my logs, I notice that my times really start to slow down in the last few weeks of race preparation, when I swapped out a few pool sessions for OWS, and have stayed a good 10 or so seconds slower now that race season is in full force.

Normal? Or is this a sign that I need to work harder? I already swim three times a week and don't know that I can squeeze another day in the schedule. Will the times come back once race season is over? I don't mind taking two steps forward and one step back as long as I continue to move forward.



Edited by Miles around Midtown 2012-06-20 7:46 AM


2012-06-20 8:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?

Its hard to say, but I think I may experience the same effect sometimes.

What I've noticed is when I swim in Open Water I tend to swim a lot slower than I do in the pool.  I think its based on trying to "take it easy" so as not to get tired which keeps the swim panic down and makes it a low stress OWS.

Then when I get back in the pool I start swimming with that same cadence/stroke rate and it's just slow and I have to force myself to push harder to get back to my normal pool swim times.

As I have gotten more comfortable with my swim fitness I'm pushing it harder and harder in the Open Water so the difference isn't as great as it used to be.

2012-06-20 8:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
Can you tell if it's more form or fitness? Are you swimming about as much as before?  My form would fall off terribly from doing open water swims. A few pool sessions and it would come right back though. Now it's doing better with more awareness of what I'm doing.
2012-06-20 8:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
My swim times went up when I started focusing on longer sets in preparation for a HIM.  My Master's swim coach said to make sure I always included some speed work in my swim routines.   
2012-06-20 8:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
Miles around Midtown - 2012-06-20 2:45 PM

Still, after I did some 100 m "sprints" this morning I can't help getting discouraged. My average sprint time is a full six seconds slower than my best 100 m session, a few months ago. Flipping through my logs, I notice that my times really start to slow down in the last few weeks of race preparation, when I swapped out a few pool sessions for OWS, and have stayed a good 10 or so seconds slower now that race season is in full force.

Did your training total volume go up? more bike? more run? Is your OWS practice longer or more time than pool practice? How many/how often do you race?

It may not be your OWS practice or races as such but the total volume of races and workouts, including non bike and run workouts, it could be lack of rest or restitution, sleeping, diet whatever. So think about if other things may have changed in your life.

Cheers, Erik

2012-06-20 9:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?

All good questions. I appreciate all of your thoughts.

brigby1 - 2012-06-20 8:08 AM Can you tell if it's more form or fitness? Are you swimming about as much as before?  My form would fall off terribly from doing open water swims. A few pool sessions and it would come right back though.

I don't think it's fitness. My overall training volume hasn't decreased. I would say I'm swimming as much as before. My pool sessions have become a bit longer to make up for lake swims and races, which are a bit shorter -- but they balance out.

tuwood - 2012-06-20 8:04 AM

What I've noticed is when I swim in Open Water I tend to swim a lot slower than I do in the pool.  I think its based on trying to "take it easy" so as not to get tired which keeps the swim panic down and makes it a low stress OWS.

Then when I get back in the pool I start swimming with that same cadence/stroke rate and it's just slow and I have to force myself to push harder to get back to my normal pool swim times.

Hmmm, this may be similar to what I'm experiencing. I do try to take it nice and easy during an OWS so I don't panic.

erik.norgaard - 2012-06-20 8:17 AM

Did your training total volume go up? more bike? more run? Is your OWS practice longer or more time than pool practice? How many/how often do you race?

It may not be your OWS practice or races as such but the total volume of races and workouts, including non bike and run workouts, it could be lack of rest or restitution, sleeping, diet whatever. So think about if other things may have changed in your life.

My training volume overall hasn't really changed with the exception of adding a mile or so to each of my weekly long runs (when I'm not racing, that is) but that's a difference of 3-ish miles once a week. Usually OWS practice is a shorter sessions, but I've been doing slightly longer pool sessions once a week to compensate. So, where before I might have swum 2000 m three times a week, now I try to swim 2400 m during two sessions in the pool with a mile or so OWS on the weekend (or half mile if it's a race). Sometimes I can do three pool and one OWS, but it's usually two pool and one OWS or three pool sessions if I can't make it to a lake.

It has gotten hotter, so maybe that is sapping my overall energy. Diet and rest haven't really changed. And so far I've done two races three weeks apart (another one scheduled for three weeks after my last).

If getting a bit slower in the pool is a necessary demon of racing, I'm OK with that -- I'll just hoping to be reassured that it's somewhat common so I don't freak out about my getting-slower times. I don't want to see all my hard work go to waste! =D



2012-06-20 9:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?

Timed pool sprints/intervals feel very different from long OWS for most nonspeedsters in the water.

 

If you do a lot more OWS, you'll be going at a slower avg pace and if you acclimate to that, you'll take that pace back with you into the pool and thus be slower. 

 

The benefit of pool training is that the clock doesn't lie. OWS has its own unique set of problems but generally, you're not under the clock for 100s-200s or longer, so it is definitely easier to swim at a slower pace.

2012-06-20 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
Miles around Midtown - 2012-06-20 6:45 AM

I'm a little befuddled this morning as I analyze my swim times.

Disclaimer 1: I am no Dara Torres. I am slooooooow, and have only been swimming for about a year and a half. Disclaimer 2: I am not doing this to get faster in the pool -- I'm doing this to get proficient in a triathlon. I know that in the great scheme of things, a few seconds on a lap doesn't really matter to my overall goal.

Still, after I did some 100 m "sprints" this morning I can't help getting discouraged. My average sprint time is a full six seconds slower than my best 100 m session, a few months ago. Flipping through my logs, I notice that my times really start to slow down in the last few weeks of race preparation, when I swapped out a few pool sessions for OWS, and have stayed a good 10 or so seconds slower now that race season is in full force.

Normal? Or is this a sign that I need to work harder? I already swim three times a week and don't know that I can squeeze another day in the schedule. Will the times come back once race season is over? I don't mind taking two steps forward and one step back as long as I continue to move forward.



it's hard to say since I"ve never seen you swim and don't know exactly how you are structuring t hings.

There is a basic principal of training called periodization, which involves doing the training that is most specific to your competition when you are closest to your competition.

So if you are training to compete in open water triathlons, your most specific training would be open water swimming at race pace, either wwhole or in itnervals. 100yd/m pool intervals for time are very non-specific to your race objective, so it makes sense that they are not as fast as they used to be.

However, since you seem a little confused about why your swim times are the way they are I wonder if your training plan is really specifically geared to swimming well in open water, or if you really ARE getting slower.

have you done any longer time trials either in the pool or open water? Are your race times getting faster or are they also getting slower?

In the pool, are your strokes per length for any given pace getting higher or lower or staying the same? Is your tempo getting faster or slower?

Lots of variables to look at and evaluate, but the bottom line is if you are getting faster / better in your race specific swims (ie open water @ race distance) then you are doing fine.
2018-06-12 7:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
This is also happening to me! I've been swimming consistent 1.30s for my 100m sets for 3 months and now all of a sudden I'm at 1.33s and 1.34s! What's changed? Who I'm doing more open water swimming, I'm biking and running more and doing a reduced volume in the pool (from 12k to 8k per week). It's very disheartening, and just like you am I hoping that my times will bounce back.
2018-06-12 1:43 PM
in reply to: Miles around Midtown

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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
Few thoughts...

You need some recovery from the pool. Your times and splits will be slower if you are worn out and not recovering, especially after a race weekend. Like any muscle group, no recovery = no adaptation.

I would not add more volume. Instead, look at form. Have you picked up bad form from going OWS from pool? OWS is a different animal with wind, currents and no line on the bottom to track for sighting. Typically people speed up cadence in races which reduces efficiency and if they are not careful, it could carry over to workouts.

I always coach my people to 2 to 3 pool swims, keep working form and technique. Grab an OWS if you can once a week.
2018-06-13 1:58 AM
in reply to: Miles around Midtown

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Subject: RE: Swim times getting slower in the pool... a result of racing and OWS?
Maybe you should be focusing on the overall time.
In your case since your lap time in the pool is dropping maybe there is someway you can compensate for it in the other two fields.
If you can improve your swimming lap times then well and fine.


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