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2012-06-25 8:43 AM

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Subject: The China Study and animal protein
Other than the Vegans amongst us, what's everyone feeling about consuming animal protein and dairy products. I just finished reading the China Study (more in-depth than the documentary Forks over Knives that was based on the book) and if the research is taken as it's presented, then animal protein and dairy product intake are correlated to many aliments. While I take most of the presentations on nutrition with a grain of salt (and I've considerably cut back on salt years ago) like the documentaries Food Matters, and Food Inc., the China Study has elements from a scientific perspective that can't be ignored. Having done research in the past, the fact that they made their raw data available is huge in my book and adds to the credibility of the study (unless the data is fraudulent, but in this study there would be no underlying reason to suspect fraud), anyone can replicate the analysis.

For those of you who haven't read the book here's a synopsis. The author is a top-tier researcher (40 years experience) and presents various correlations with animal protein and cancer. The study which forms the basis of the book was a long term, huge amount of data, study of cancer across all the provinces of China. In rural, low animal product diet areas, very low rates of cancer and heart disease. As the diet became more 'western' so did the increase in various cancers.



2012-06-25 10:45 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein

I just started reading this book........

 

The  wealth of statistically significant data that supports the hazards of consuming animal protein is shocking, to say the least.
Why isn't everybody aware of this??

I have been slowly becoming a "part time" vegan. I gave up all dairy about 6 months ago, and try  to limit my "animal" consumption to 3x a week.

This is easier said than done when one does all the cooking for a household of enthusiastic carnivores. 

2012-06-25 11:22 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein

If you want to continue to read on the topic, here is an incredibly in-depth review (including studies) that refutes quite a bit of the research methods/analysis used in that study.  This link is just to the first blog post, but the author has since edited it to include links to additional analysis and research studies.  It's kind of a virtual rabbit hole, but extremely interesting nonetheless.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

2012-06-25 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
GLC1968 - 2012-06-25 12:22 PM

If you want to continue to read on the topic, here is an incredibly in-depth review (including studies) that refutes quite a bit of the research methods/analysis used in that study.  This link is just to the first blog post, but the author has since edited it to include links to additional analysis and research studies.  It's kind of a virtual rabbit hole, but extremely interesting nonetheless.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

 

Hey thanks for the link.

I want to make informed choices about all this stuff..........so the more info the better.

2012-06-25 11:56 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
aquagirl - 2012-06-25 11:45 AM

I just started reading this book........

 

The  wealth of statistically significant data that supports the hazards of consuming animal protein is shocking, to say the least.
Why isn't everybody aware of this??

I have been slowly becoming a "part time" vegan. I gave up all dairy about 6 months ago, and try  to limit my "animal" consumption to 3x a week.

This is easier said than done when one does all the cooking for a household of enthusiastic carnivores. 

I read the book and watched the documentary.  I was a vegetarian for a decade and then started eating meat when I got pregnant with my first child.  Now I feel like aquagirl.  I'm a "part time" vegan.  It's so tough eating this way when 5 other people in my house love their meat.  My husband is on board with veg entrees 3-4 times per week.  He doesn't feel we need all that animal protein and also agrees that it is important for our children to eat a variety of plant based meals.  They are very well rounded eaters (can't think of 1 veggie they won't eat), and I don't want to rock the boat right now  If I were only cooking for my husband and me, then it would be 100% vegan (and will likely be this way once the kids are out of my house).   

2012-06-25 12:05 PM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
GLC1968 - 2012-06-25 12:22 PM

If you want to continue to read on the topic, here is an incredibly in-depth review (including studies) that refutes quite a bit of the research methods/analysis used in that study.  This link is just to the first blog post, but the author has since edited it to include links to additional analysis and research studies.  It's kind of a virtual rabbit hole, but extremely interesting nonetheless.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

OK then.........I have just started down the rabbit hole. 

It IS fascinating..........

Of course now my head hurts and I am more confused than ever.



2012-06-25 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
Rabbit hole is right! However...you've got to be kidding me! An English major, self-taught in statistics disputing the analysis of the study (she realized that this would be the typical comment and pseudo-justifies her veracity in her 'about me' page. Hey, it's her site). While I commend her for her effort, I'll pass on taking her critique as I would from a peer-reviewed journal.

That's not to say I'm totally convinced by the study, and like others, giving up meat (bacon in particular) would be harder than the last six miles in a marathon.

I have been cutting back on meat for awhile, but not dairy. I'm going to try going to pre-vegan stage for a month (limit animal protein and dairy as much as feasible) and see what effect it has on me.

2012-06-25 1:30 PM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein

Yeah, I know - her credentials are amusing, aren't they?  But I can't help but find it interesting that someone without a relevant background could poke such holes in the original conclusions drawn.

Personally, I do eat meat (of a certain caliber) and I don't eat dairy, so I'm clearly willing to pick and choose which conclusions I'd like to believe in. Wink

2012-06-25 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
GLC1968 - 2012-06-25 2:30 PM

Yeah, I know - her credentials are amusing, aren't they?  But I can't help but find it interesting that someone without a relevant background could poke such holes in the original conclusions drawn.

Personally, I do eat meat (of a certain caliber) and I don't eat dairy, so I'm clearly willing to pick and choose which conclusions I'd like to believe in. Wink




On a related note, but not dealing with nutrition. I have experience with a situation where a major industry group 'funded' some local individuals to raise concerns at public hearings (if the project was not approved, it would benefit the industry). It's amazing how 'informed' some of the locals were!

What's interesting about the China Study is that we are starting to see more and more studies linking diet to health...like it's some sort of surprise that if you eat a lot of crap you'll do harm to yourself!

2012-06-26 9:38 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
aquagirl - 2012-06-25 12:05 PM

GLC1968 - 2012-06-25 12:22 PM

If you want to continue to read on the topic, here is an incredibly in-depth review (including studies) that refutes quite a bit of the research methods/analysis used in that study.  This link is just to the first blog post, but the author has since edited it to include links to additional analysis and research studies.  It's kind of a virtual rabbit hole, but extremely interesting nonetheless.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

OK then.........I have just started down the rabbit hole. 

It IS fascinating..........

Of course now my head hurts and I am more confused than ever.



You should also know that the response to the RawFoodSOS response also makes her look like an idiot.

I've been vegan/vegetarian for six years, and I don't really care what the science says. The best diet is a whole foods based one, hopefully low grain, that provides all the nutrients you need and that you can stick with for a long time.
2012-06-27 7:37 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
ipull400watts - 2012-06-26 10:38 AM
aquagirl - 2012-06-25 12:05 PM
GLC1968 - 2012-06-25 12:22 PM

If you want to continue to read on the topic, here is an incredibly in-depth review (including studies) that refutes quite a bit of the research methods/analysis used in that study.  This link is just to the first blog post, but the author has since edited it to include links to additional analysis and research studies.  It's kind of a virtual rabbit hole, but extremely interesting nonetheless.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

OK then.........I have just started down the rabbit hole. 

It IS fascinating..........

Of course now my head hurts and I am more confused than ever.

You should also know that the response to the RawFoodSOS response also makes her look like an idiot. I've been vegan/vegetarian for six years, and I don't really care what the science says. The best diet is a whole foods based one, hopefully low grain, that provides all the nutrients you need and that you can stick with for a long time.

Any links to the response to HER critique?

I do agree with you though....to me it just makes logical sense that a diet based on real, whole , unadulterated food is the best bet.

That is not rocket science. 

I love Michael Pollan's sage advice: eat food, not too much, mostly plants. I still eat meat, just not every day anymore. 

 



2012-06-27 8:33 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
" The best diet is a whole foods based one, hopefully low grain, that provides all the nutrients you need and that you can stick with for a long time. "



That's the first time I heard of 'Low Grain'. Is that just refined grain or does that include whole grains also? Is that to reduce high carb intake?

Edited by vonschnapps 2012-06-27 8:33 AM
2012-06-27 9:06 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein

vonschnapps - 2012-06-27 9:33 AM " The best diet is a whole foods based one, hopefully low grain, that provides all the nutrients you need and that you can stick with for a long time. "
That's the first time I heard of 'Low Grain'. Is that just refined grain or does that include whole grains also? Is that to reduce high carb intake?

That sounds Paleo-ish to me.

Personally I do not do well with low grain. I lose weight...that I cannot afford to lose.......and basically feel gross.

I agree with limiting REFINED grains  though. Unless of course I am baking cupcakes. Cause..........a whole wheat cupcake just isn't a cupcake. And cupcakes make me happy. And happy is important. Right?

 

Do you like my logic?

2012-06-27 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein
aquagirl - 2012-06-27 10:06 AM

vonschnapps - 2012-06-27 9:33 AM " The best diet is a whole foods based one, hopefully low grain, that provides all the nutrients you need and that you can stick with for a long time. "
That's the first time I heard of 'Low Grain'. Is that just refined grain or does that include whole grains also? Is that to reduce high carb intake?

That sounds Paleo-ish to me.

Personally I do not do well with low grain. I lose weight...that I cannot afford to lose.......and basically feel gross.

I agree with limiting REFINED grains  though. Unless of course I am baking cupcakes. Cause..........a whole wheat cupcake just isn't a cupcake. And cupcakes make me happy. And happy is important. Right?

 

Do you like my logic?



Yes, I like your logic, and I like cupcakes too!




Edited by vonschnapps 2012-06-27 9:21 AM
2012-07-01 6:45 PM
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Subject: RE: The China Study and animal protein

I'd be curious to know what % of centenarians regularly consume animal/dairy protein...then, compare that with the % in the general population.

I'd also love to know the breakdown on red meats vs. poultry, fish, etc.  My family has cut down beef intake dramatically over the last decade...special occasions, maybe once or twice a month.  The data on red meat consumption and its effect on death rates sure isn't comforting!

I will have to check out The China Study...thanks for the reminder vonschnapps.

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