What makes chocolate milk a good recover drink? (Page 2)

Yep.  Chocolate milk is NOT particularly good for recovery.  Nor, as Shane says, is there are particularly good reason to think that there is anything about 4:1 that enhances recovery in any way relevant to actual training.

To OP:  For most efforts, you don't really need any 'recovery' food apart from water.  If it is meal time (and a great way to schedule workouts is so that they end at meal time) then just eat.  For very long efforts that do merit recovery nutrition (2+ hour runs, 4+ hour bike rides) I personally prefer a smoothie made from frozen blueberries, coconut water, a tiny bit of apple juice or orange juice to give it some sweetness, and if I'm feeling like I want it 'creamy' I'll add a scoop of yoghurt.  You could easily devise a variation on that theme using rice milk, almond milk, whatever.

You really think so? I just recently began seeing chocolate milk advertised as athletic recovery drink, but I've read and heard about it from actual athletes for years. The marketing is new.

Which is what I was saying.  The dairy industry got wind of the fact that athletes were using it as an easy and inexpensive alternative to the growing number of supplements out there and decided to cash in on it by advertising it for that purpose.

I personally use advocare Post Workout Recovery and Nighttime recovery.  It is a bit pricey, but I have a much shorter recovery period than anything else I've tried.  Some people don't care for advocare because of their business model...but it's a great product, so I'm still going to use it.

http://www.advocare.com/products/performance_elite/P3361.aspx

I also use Rehydrate Gels on my rides which have a much better consistency than Gu or anything else and use "Pro-20" as long-ride nutrition.

Endurox R4 has been working real nice for me.  Fruit punch flavor w/cold water.  Ahhhh!  =D

I will offer mine:  real food.

As an AG athlete, if you need any 'engineered' recovery products (for anything other than some added convenience) then you are doing something wrong.  'Athlete recovery supplements' are made to generate huge profits for their makers with little science (or regulation) behind them.  In this sense, chocolate milk is 'better' because you are not paying a lot for their marketing (though you are paying something as others have noted).

Also, from the post above: 

Like, for instance, choclate milk? (Not suggesting it is the best, or only, source for these items--just that it has them.)

I want to look at something here.  For the people that use chocolate milk...go for it.  I don't care to change anybody's nutrition plan...honestly.  But I *will* lay out some facts to make sure that people aren't spreading half-truth information.  I also believe that if you want to perform like a machine, you need to treat your body like a machine.  I personally feel that if I want my body to perform at it's peak, I need to be putting in as much good stuff as I can.  This is just a personal thing...I am not trying to draw judgement in any way.  I don't advise anybody to start taking supplements without understanding them first, but I want to lay this out there so that people see the difference between chocolate milk and real recovery drinks. 

Chocolate Milk: 

Note:

-158 calories. 

         -22 of those calories are from Fat. (1 gram fat = 9 calories) 

         -104 calories are from carbohydrate (1 gram carb = 4 calories)

         -32 calories are from protein (1 gram protein = 4 calories)

-Of the 26 grams (104 calories) of carbohydrates, 25 (100 calories) of those grams are sugar. (Make note of this)

-Cholesterol, Sodium, Potassium.

-10% Vitamin A, 4% vitamin C, 30% calcium, 3% iron

Now.  I am not saying chocolate milk is not yummy, as it is delicious...but from a recovery standpoint, you are drinking something that is 76% fat and sugar.  Remember.  We are talking about muscle recovery at this point.

I am not trying to sell anybody on this at all, but I just want to teach people to look at their options.  I am just using Post-Workout Recovery as an example.

http://www.advocare.com/products/images/pdf/P3361.pdf

-Total Calories (mixed with water): 220

         -25 of those calories are from fat (1 gram of fat = 9 calories)

         -144 of those calories are from carbohydrate (1 gram of carb = 4 calories)

         -108 of those calories are from protein (1 gram of protein = 9 calories)

-Of the 36 grams of carbohydrates (144 calories), 16 of those are sugar(64 calories)

So at this point; 11% fat, 30% sugar.

Now we get to the minerals:

-20% vitamin A, 40% calcium, 15% vitamin D, 100% thiamine, 100% Niacine, 25% folic Acid, 25% Biotin, 30% phosphorus, 40% magnesium, 35% selenium, 100% maganese, 35% molybdenum, 200% vitamin C, 10% iron, 35% Vitamin E, 100% Riboflavin, 100% Vitamin B-6, 1670% Vitamin B-12, 100% Pantothenic Acid, 15% iodine, 35% zinc, 25% copper, 70% chromium

So at this point, it has pretty much refuelled your body from any minerals that have been depleted. 

Then we assist with musle repair:

2 grams Creatine, 50 mcg choline, 50mcg inositol, 200mcg Vanadium, 250mcg boron, 150mcg  Gamma oryzanol, 25mg L-Camitine, 100mG inosine, silicone 1mg, 250mg DL-methionine, 200mg L-leucine, 100mg L-Valine, 100mg L-Isoleucine.

I guess ultimately I am just saying this:

Chocolate milk is quite tasty after a long workout, however it was never created as any kind of endurance athlete recovery drink.  Most professional athletes (even the ones in advertisements drinking chocolate milk) use real recovery products so that they can refuel their bodies quicker and get back to work. 

 JohnnyKay:  Could you please define "Engineered" and differentiate it from the process of any other food?  Particularly the gels and energy drinks that you consume? 

Also...If you are able to get everything your body needs from a couple of meals after a race, awesome.  Unfortunately, most people don't know what their body needs after a race and are unable to make that call and just take what is good (ie:  eat a big fat burger and call that 'recovery' and then suffer for the next week saying "recovery has been hard")

Believe it or not, there are people who understand the needs of athletes and will do what they can to support their bodies.  Darigold is not one of those.

Won't argue with this much, lifejustice.  Just note that your 'engineered' product is no more proven to help in recovery than chocolate milk (which is to say, they each have carbs & protein which have been shown to help in recovery). 

If you are really concerned about those rations (fats/carbs/protiens)--though some poeple believe there is some 'special' effectivenss driven by the roughly 4:1 carb:protein number--spike the chocolate milk with some protein powder.  Or eat some tuna with it.  Most AGers don't train like professional athletes.  Eating like them won't always be the best choice.  BTW, I am NOT here to recommend that people use chocolate milk for recovery.  It's just not an awful choice if you need something quick.  And based on cost alone, I would argue it's better than what you listed above.  My recommendation is to eat 'real' food in most circumstances, when needed.

Nutrition while exercising is different than pre or post.  For that, you want easily digestible carbs (plus, probably, some electrolytes) and not much else. 'Real' food is less practical for this purpose.  After a race, you need some carbs and protein.  Nothing terribly wrong with getting some of that from a 'big fat burger'--sure, there may be 'better' options but I really doubt the drink you put above is one of them.  And that is not likely to noticeably impede their recovery for the next week.

There are also people that understand that athletes will do things to feel like they are getting an 'edge' and pay heavily for it.  Despite little proof.  But, if it doesn't bother you to spend the money and you feel like it helps you, feel free to continue.  I don't plan to change your nutrition plan either.

I vote for 'real' food as well. I've got a flock of ducks that provide me with a pretty decent recovery food every morning.  Chop up some seasonal greens (sweet potato greens are great for this) and scramble it all up and I bet most of the nutritional deficiencies are covered. 

Real food > synthetic "stuff." For anything related to normal health, function and repair. It's a basic fact. There's not any credible authority or evidence that any kind of processed nutrition supersedes actual food for these things.

The OP asked about recovery, so I'll leave it at that.

The evidence demonstrates exactly what Shane (gsmacleod) and John (JohnnyKay) stated.

I like to end every workout by riding my bike into a brick wall at speed.  The only setback is the recovery time.  Maybe some chocolate milk will help?

I'm curious too. I have not noticed any recovery food doing any more, or even as much as, regular food does. And I put in a fair amount of hours at efforts. I do eat some right away because I would have to eat until completely stuffed a little later. Something that is rather uncomfortable, especially not long before going to sleep. And quality of sleep has mattered (much) more than any of the food being discussed.

I've used whey protein on and off for years.  I have never noticed it helping my recovery, even the products which say they are designed to do just that.

What I have noticed is that if I skimp on the whey, I notice a definite loss of muscle mass on my body.  I tried getting off whey and onto comparable real food milk products like milk, cottage cheese and a few others but none have worked to keep a decent amount of muscle mass on my body like whey.  And I'm not talking bodybuilder muscle mass, I'm talking enough muscle mass so I don't look scrawny.

Here is a breakdown of what I could find on the ever-reliable web. full disclosure, I prefer milk. How can you improve on mother nature?

                 12 oz choc milk      12 oz Endurox R4        winner?

Calories             214                         280                    Endurox

Carbs                35.5 g                     53 g                   Endurox

Protein              11 g                       14 g                    Endurox

carb:prot ratio    3.2:1                     3.78:1                 disputed?

Calcium             39% DV                 10% DV               Milk

Potassium          578 mg                  140 mg               Milk

Magnesium     < 100mg                   250 mg                Endurox

zinc                   8% DV                   ?                         ?

iron                   4%                        10%                    Endurox

amino acids       some (?)                some more (?)      ???

tastiness           a lot                       a little                   Milk

ease of prep.     easy                      not bad                  Milk

storage             temperamental       easy                      Endurox

cost                  low                        higher                   Milk

x2 on all of that.  I definitely eat something after most workouts, for pretty much the same reason.

Bricks are really only good to learn pacing and what it will feel like to run on wobbly legs.  You really don't need to ride into a brick wall more than a few times in training to achieve those goals.  So take it easy on the bricks, OK?  But yeah, chocolate milk definitely helps in these situations.

Some thoughts:

Food is yummy. Supplements can be yummy, but nutrients in them may also not be as biologically available as in natural foods.

The need to east post workout is often dependant on the length of the workout and your feed state beforehand.

Sugars are GOOD post workout as they get converted quickly to help refill glycogen in muscles and liver to prep for the next workout.

Eat what works for you.

I like smoothies.

I really like Chocolate Chip cookies after a race.

I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not to use milk as a recovery drink, but if you're going to compare it other recovery products available, you must look beyond a simple comparison of ingredients and macronutrient levels.  Beyond that is what the body does or does not do with those ingredients and nutrients.

If the body does not absorb what you take in, it is of no use to you.  Whey protein isolate may be a processed food, but it's that processing that makes it more easily absorbed into the muscle where repair can happen.  If a higher percentage of the protein that you ingest from milk is not absorbed but rather excreted as waste, then ingesting 20 grams of milk protein is not truly equal to 20 grams of whey protein isolate where all or at least more of those grams are absorbed.

Additionally, people who are sensitive to dairy often find they can tolerate whey with no problem because of the way it is synthesized.  They are actually sensitive to what is left behind after the synthesis into whey.