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Overtrained vs. Undertrained
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Overtrained3 Votes - [9.09%]
Undertrained30 Votes - [90.91%]

2012-09-21 9:08 AM
in reply to: #4421803

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained

ray6foot7 - 2012-09-21 9:06 AM I went with undertrained.  If they are both going to make me slower on race day,  I would rather have spent the time with my family than training too much.

Great point!



2012-09-21 9:20 AM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained

There's an old chestnut that it's better to be 10% undertrained than 10% overtrained.

Intuitively I would tend to agree with that, as the implication is that you've got something left in the tank that you can pull up on raceday.

That being said, most of us here are part-timers, constrained by our real-world jobs, who would spend more time training if we could.  Intuitively that makes most folks undertrained.  We perform to the level commiserate with our level or training and talent.  If we could train more, then we could likely perform at a higher level. 

I would offer an opinion that most folks who are 'overtrained' according to your definitiion would be those who try to 'cram' in training up to the last minute prior to a race and who don't understand the importance of rest and recovery to performance in endurance sports.

Mark

 

 

2012-09-21 9:35 AM
in reply to: #4421839

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
RedCorvette - 2012-09-21 9:20 AM

There's an old chestnut that it's better to be 10% undertrained than 10% overtrained.

Intuitively I would tend to agree with that, as the implication is that you've got something left in the tank that you can pull up on raceday.

That being said, most of us here are part-timers, constrained by our real-world jobs, who would spend more time training if we could.  Intuitively that makes most folks undertrained.  We perform to the level commiserate with our level or training and talent.  If we could train more, then we could likely perform at a higher level. 

I would offer an opinion that most folks who are 'overtrained' according to your definitiion would be those who try to 'cram' in training up to the last minute prior to a race and who don't understand the importance of rest and recovery to performance in endurance sports.

Mark

I like the bolded above, Mark. That's a good way to look at it as you explained after as well. It

2012-09-21 4:29 PM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
I cannot honestly say I've ever gone into a race with the thought that I was fatigued or under-trained, mostly because I don't really *know* either of those things. I may feel fatigued, but that's not really the same as knowing I am too fatigued to race well.

My perception on this issue is obviously biased by my experiences. I know that, while I may feel tired or "heavy" before the gun goes off, that initial impression ends up being completely meaningless to how I actually perform; I've had some of my better races when I felt fatigued before the start, and some pretty off performances when I felt fresh and ready.

In terms of taper, I know that for me, less is best. For a marathon, anything over about a week is too much and I feel stale. Heck, I've trained through them, and still set a PR (easy to do when it's only your second, but hey). I think that most people taper waaaay too much based on their overall training volume and intensities. A proper taper comes at the end of a periodized training plan, that had you go through a volume building period, then an intensity building period, and in that last bit leading up to your race, you cut back on volume while maintaining the intensity. The goal here is to keep those legs feeling fast and ready to respond, while letting them build up their energy stores. If anything, at the start, you should probably feel a little fatigued, but that will fade within the first few miles.

As for being undertrained and really knowing it... I would take one of two approaches:
Either I would adjust my strategy appropriately, and not worry about a goal, or I would bag the race. Running woefully under-prepared leads to misery, and I don't do this to intentionally seek misery.
2012-09-21 4:44 PM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
For me I view it as slightly over/under or drastically. If we are talking drastically I'd rather go in overtrained. I went into IMSG in 2010 on only 4-5 hours a weeks for maybe 8 weeks and it cost me a trip to the ER and lingering issues. Overtrained you'll have other issues, but probably not medical or anything life threatening.

For slightly, I'd say undertrained. Its better to go in fresh than tired.
2012-09-22 10:09 AM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
I think undertrained is mostly relative to the pace or effort you are anticipating.

For example...cross season is coming up. I'm horribly undertrained, my first race is going to suck. But only if I try to stick with the leaders and pace myself like I did at the end of last season. I can easily show up and ride my cross bike for 45 minutes...but internally, there is a "race pace" that I should be sustaining and I am undertrained for that pace.

overtraining implies an entirely different thing that is more than just un-tapered. You can be untapered and well trained for the event. Overtrained implies that you've fallen deeper and deeper into a hole that you can't climb out of easily. Going into a race tired or fatigued is not going into a race overtrained.


2012-09-22 12:02 PM
in reply to: #4423269

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained

AdventureBear - 2012-09-22 10:09 AM I think undertrained is mostly relative to the pace or effort you are anticipating. For example...cross season is coming up. I'm horribly undertrained, my first race is going to suck. But only if I try to stick with the leaders and pace myself like I did at the end of last season. I can easily show up and ride my cross bike for 45 minutes...but internally, there is a "race pace" that I should be sustaining and I am undertrained for that pace. overtraining implies an entirely different thing that is more than just un-tapered. You can be untapered and well trained for the event. Overtrained implies that you've fallen deeper and deeper into a hole that you can't climb out of easily. Going into a race tired or fatigued is not going into a race overtrained.

I'm with you.

As a BOPer on a long course I'm more concerned with finishing the distance than setting a PR.  I can go into a sprint or oly on almost no recent training and, other than some walking on the run, make it through ok.  Am I "undertrained"?  Yea, but only compared to where I was at the beginning of the season, not compared to where I was 2 years ago.

I always thought overtraining was a medical condition that required serious recovery.

As for tapering, as the feather on the back of the spear unless it is long course I'm not going to take more than a few days off before hand to rest up.  But I'm also not going to do anything crazy the day before the race.

 

2012-09-22 1:02 PM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
I've hit the start line both ways, and if I had to choose, I'll take under trained any day.

When I was under trained due to a stress fracture for a HIM, I knew I wouldn't PR, but was still able to enjoy the race. The run I gutted out, wasn't fast or pretty, but I got it done knowing that if I just kept moving forward I would finish. And knowing that next time would be revenge.

When I hit the start line over trained all I wanted to do was be done. I felt no excitement, no adrenaline, really nothing, just totally flat. Physically it would come and go. Mentally it was a disaster. Every little tweak blew up in my face. When I hit the finish line, again there was no joy. Simply relief of being done. The wonderful happy, floatyness for weeks after wasn't there. I would go out to run only to stop a mile in, then walk home and cry. I doubted I'd ever do another race. It took many months to feel right again.

I have a 50 mile ultra in a couple months that I'm being very careful with training wise to not burn myself again. I know from experience that I can deal with the physical pain of being under trained far better than the mental pain of being over trained. But I am doing my best to show up neither over or under!

Zanne
2012-09-22 1:16 PM
in reply to: #4421794

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
djrigby9 - 2012-09-21 10:00 AM
TriMyBest - 2012-09-21 8:56 AM

I see.

Honestly, I can't give an opinion, because even though I've been in the situation of going into a race undertrained, and knowing it, I've never had the experience of starting a higher priority race while extremely fatigued from training and wishing I'd rested more.  The only time that happens is with a 'C' race, and I've planned to train straight through it.

This was the type of response I was looking for. What is that like for you? Knowing you're fatigued going into your 'c' race? I for one don't really rate my races, as I don't have the money to race as much as I would like, so I generally go in with each race looking to get my best results on the day. Most of the time I fall into that gap of well-trained and properly rested. However, I felt one race I came in fatigued, and I couldn't figure out why.

I did 3 sprints this summer. I trained hard right through those .. it's my second Tri season.  Next month is my first Olympic.

For my first sprint of the summer, on race day I felt tired and bad.. It was not a pleasant race .

I'd rather be undertrained yet be rested on race day than tired from hard training in the days before.

2012-09-24 1:42 PM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
Cool responses guys. I've never experienced training through races. One reason is I don't have the money to specifically do this, and I also don't look at training through a race to be overly critical. I know some people do them to get their nerves out and practice their transitions. I've never really had much of an issue with either except maybe the first race of the year when the nerves of that first big swim and getting out with other people racing. I'm finding it interesting to see people rather being under trained than over. But the reasoning seems very sound. Being over trained, feeling very flat and hard to stay motivated. I know I've had those days in training, especially during heavy bike periods. Thanks for putting some thought and quality replies int. I appreciate it!
2012-09-24 1:45 PM
in reply to: #4421570


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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
Honestly, most AGers (including myself) never have to worry about going in overtrained. 


2012-09-24 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
For me IF I showed up at the line not trained right, I would rather  it be a bit undertrained, I have always found it easier to push thru late race fatigue then to work thru it right from the get go. But as mentioned I would generally show up at the line trained appropriately, rested and ready to go for the scheduled event distance.
2012-09-24 6:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained

Per the OP's definition of  "Overtrained meaning coming into race day fatigued" I definitely have to go with Scout on this one!

My perception is also based on my own experiences.

2012-09-24 9:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained

The whole first page of this thread cracked me up- when I first joined BT (and was actually a beginner) I got replies like this all the time.  It was super-frustrating and kept me away from the forums for a while, but it doesn't seem as bad now.

I'm not very fast so my experience may not be relevant, but I have found that most training plans I've followed have me doing a pretty fast brick maybe 3-4 days before the race.  I would feel fantastic on the brick and not so fantastic at the tri.  I think the traditional wisdom has you keeping the intensity but not the volume during the taper, but I find I need to take the intensity down too.  I also like to take a day or two off before a race, no short workouts (esp not runs) to keep me "sharp".  

2012-09-25 7:28 AM
in reply to: #4421570

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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
I would like to think that most people start to figure out, from their own experiences, how to properly get ready for each race. I am a firm believer that everyone is different in how they need to prep. Some people may need a good solid 2 weeks to taper off before a bigger race. Some people maybe only a couple days. I'm kind of on the idea of for myself, for a sprint it's only 2-3 days max, Oly 3-4, and HIM 4-5. While each having their own taper experience. The sprint isn't really a taper for me, it's more of just cooling off the jets and making sure I get plenty of rest and quality recovery/nutrition leading up. The oly, I'll probably take the day off before to ensure a full recovery. If anything, maybe 15-20min of something easy and lots of stretching. For HIM, I'd say a full day off before, unless there's some light swimming or spinning on the bike. And the few days leading in, I'm cutting way down on effort and overall volume. I haven't done a full IM, so I can't really say. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
2012-09-25 6:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Overtrained vs. Undertrained
Undertrained only sucks for a little bit. Overtrained sucks all day, every day.


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