General Discussion Triathlon Talk » To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2012-09-26 8:58 AM

User image

Member
25
25
Subject: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

Every race (sprints and oly.), the same dilemma - draft or not? I understand (and feel) how important drafting is in the swim leg is, but still:

I can't seem to find a swimmer that is in-sync with my speed, so I find myself swimming not as fast as I can. That is not such a a big problem in itself, but what happens is I don't swim as efficiently and naturally as I'm able to swim, my legs tend to drop more because I'm not creating enough forward momentum and sometime I have to stop myself from hitting the legs of the person I draft off of. 

When I get to annoyed and start swimming faster, by myself,no drafting, trying to catch the next group. I feel I swim much better, much more fluid in the water, but I waste more energy, and the difference from the next group is about 10-15 seconds so I wonder if that worth the effort.

The last race (Olympic distance), I tried stating faster than I usually do, and I found myself swimming with the stronger swimmers, but I still had the same dilemma, I spent the entire swim leg drafting off this guy, often slowing down trying to keep in his stream, knowing that if I swam alone the entire leg I would finish faster, but more tired.

Can anyone share their experience? Are you able to find that perfect match that you can draft off and swim at your perfect pace at the same time? Is drafting always better than not drafting?

 

Thanks,Yossi



2012-09-26 9:09 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Drafting is better than not drafting as long as you find that set of legs that is going just a bit faster than you would be going on your own.  My strategy is always to just swim my pace and if I happen to find that person then I latch on.  If not, I'm on my own.  It really depends on the race.
2012-09-26 9:15 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image


128
10025
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
I always try to draft but it rarely works for me. I either can't find someone who is at my pace or they go off course (or I think they are going off course). Even if it gave me some advantage I think i'm better off swimming my own race.

Keba
2012-09-26 9:23 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Master
1736
100050010010025
Midcoast Maine
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Sadly, drafting has never worked out well for me. I always seem to choose the person that can't sight. After four times of swimming much longer than I needed, I have given up on actively drafting. Now - if I happen to find someone moving a little faster than me that seems to have a good line, I'm more than willing to hop on - but I no longer seek that person out.
2012-09-26 10:05 AM
in reply to: #4428141

User image

Veteran
1384
1000100100100252525
Panama City, FL
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

axteraa - 2012-09-26 9:09 AM Drafting is better than not drafting as long as you find that set of legs that is going just a bit faster than you would be going on your own.  My strategy is always to just swim my pace and if I happen to find that person then I latch on.  If not, I'm on my own.  It really depends on the race.

x 2 on this^

2012-09-26 10:33 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Extreme Veteran
717
500100100
Chicago, USA
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

For sprints and olympic distance, the goal (assuming that you're racing of course) is to go as fast as you possibly can in all three events.

For the swim, if you can swim as fast as you possibly can while right behind another swimmer, you should draft? Why? Not to save energy, to go a little bit faster.

However, if the swimmers you want to follow are just a tiny bit too slow for you and you can go swimming on your own faster, you absolutely should. Why? Because you will go faster. Yes, it will take a little bit more energy, but this is a race where the goal is not to save energy, the goal is to go fast.



2012-09-26 10:40 AM
in reply to: #4428174

User image

Extreme Veteran
717
500100100
Chicago, USA
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

itsallrelative_Maine - 2012-09-26 9:23 AM Sadly, drafting has never worked out well for me. I always seem to choose the person that can't sight. After four times of swimming much longer than I needed, I have given up on actively drafting.

 

A great point. If the swimmer you end up following is fast, but he/she ends up swimming considerably longer than needed, you've just totally lost the drafting advantage and you're probably going to be slower than if you had swum on your own but followed a good line.

 

2012-09-26 10:42 AM
in reply to: #4428330

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
DarkSpeedWorks - 2012-09-26 11:33 AM

For sprints and olympic distance, the goal (assuming that you're racing of course) is to go as fast as you possibly can in all three events.

For the swim, if you can swim as fast as you possibly can while right behind another swimmer, you should draft? Why? Not to save energy, to go a little bit faster.

However, if the swimmers you want to follow are just a tiny bit too slow for you and you can go swimming on your own faster, you absolutely should. Why? Because you will go faster. Yes, it will take a little bit more energy, but this is a race where the goal is not to save energy, the goal is to go fast.

The goal of any race distance is to go fast.  The reason to save energy anywhere, in any race, is that it leads to a faster time overall.  If it does not, then it is not worth it.  In any race distance.  They don't give any prizes for energy conservation.

2012-09-26 10:48 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Extreme Veteran
568
5002525
PaaMul QRoo, MX
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

OMG this just reminded me, I must have been leading a pack because at some point during the swim on Sunday I found myself WAY off course and a flurry of activity behind me as I headed back on course.  Sorry guys! 

I, personally, was unable to draft my first race.  I am so used to swimming alone it unnerved me.  Last Sunday, I'm not sure what happened, but 5th race and suddenly I was Following Feet.  Even traded off leading from time to time.  I'm not sure if it made any difference or not, but mentally it was a nice respite.  Again, Sorry to those I led off course.  D'oh!

2012-09-26 10:50 AM
in reply to: #4428354

User image

Extreme Veteran
1332
100010010010025
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Just try your best to seed yourself appropriately. 

I wouldn't strain myself looking for a draft, but if you seed right and end up in one, all the better, otherwise go hard on your own.
2012-09-26 11:23 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

I'll draft occasionally if an opportunity presents itself, but don't spend time looking for drafting partners.  I mostly do sprint races and the swim leg usually isn't long enough to bother with it.  Just do my swim and get on with it.

Mark



2012-09-26 12:39 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Champion
8766
5000200010005001001002525
Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

Drafting doesn't usually work well for me for MANY of the reasons already mentioned above.

What I try to do is see if I can latch onto anyone coming up from behind me that maybe started in a later wave.  Especially on the second half of the swim, these guys had to take awhile to catch up thus they are not going MUCH faster than me...just a little.  They often make good targets to try to latch onto.

In a single wave mass start (let's say IM) you could seed yourself ahead of your expected performance so that you could latch onto someone that comes up behind you.  Also, there is some decent draft benefit to being in the middle of a big pack of people as in an IM swim.  If you start out way at the back you lose a lot of that.  If you start out in the middle you get to stay in the big draft benefit longer.

But, in the end I usually end up swimming on my own anyway...I think if I started with a 'like speed' group of good swimming navigators from the beginning (i.e. the pro pack) the results would be quite different...drafting really does help.  How many times have you been drafting behind someone feeling like you're going too slow then you try to pass them and you end going the same speed with much more effort?  Happens a lot....

For me the annoyance of trying to draft costs me more energy and effor than if I just try to find my own clear water.

2012-09-26 1:08 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

Can anyone share their experience? Are you able to find that perfect match that you can draft off and swim at your perfect pace at the same time?

Sometimes.  Not every race.  I am a FOP swimmer and usually in the top 5-10 at the first buoy.  I often find that there are 2-3 that I simply cannot hang with, there are usually 2-3 that have gone out too hard and tend to drop off, but there are usually 2-3 that are swimming slightly faster than me.  I use them both for drafting and, once I'm sure they're heading in the right direction, let them do all the sighting.  Comes in VERY handy fighting through the slower swimmers of early waves.  Kind of like a blocking back to my running back 

But sometimes I am the one leading and other people are drafting off me

All depends on the race

Is drafting always better than not drafting?

 

Thanks,Yossi

No.  Too many variables to say always/never.  It's a fluid, pardon the pun, situation



Edited by ChrisM 2012-09-26 1:09 PM
2012-09-26 1:13 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

The key thing is, once you are comfortable with roughhousing in the lead group, put yourself a little ahead of where you are in swim ability.

I know- that advice is totally contrary to what we normally hear, but hear me out...

Gun goes off. You start swimming. You try to get on a pair of feet but you were a little ambitious and swimmers are going around you. You get worked a little and you slide back in the group as they pass you. But ratehr quickly you find a pair of heels you can stay on, just barely... and you hang there for an all-out 5 minute effort. Then you slide back to another pair of feet and hang there. If you play it right you get a good swim split.

You may get banged up a bit, but it's worth it in the grand scheme of things.

2012-09-26 1:15 PM
in reply to: #4428700

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Tom Demerly. - 2012-09-26 11:13 AM

The key thing is, once you are comfortable with roughhousing in the lead group, put yourself a little ahead of where you are in swim ability.

I know- that advice is totally contrary to what we normally hear, but hear me out...

Gun goes off. You start swimming. You try to get on a pair of feet but you were a little ambitious and swimmers are going around you. You get worked a little and you slide back in the group as they pass you. But ratehr quickly you find a pair of heels you can stay on, just barely... and you hang there for an all-out 5 minute effort. Then you slide back to another pair of feet and hang there. If you play it right you get a good swim split.

You may get banged up a bit, but it's worth it in the grand scheme of things.

I tend to do that...  And if I find someone starts to tucker out, and see someone pass us, I will switch feet again.  I'm always moving around and probably draft a dozen to 20 different people in a 2.4...

2012-09-26 2:06 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Mojave Desert
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Try to hang with the people that pass you.  Drafting off of someone you caught up to is pointless.


2012-09-26 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4428872

User image

Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

ktsdad - 2012-09-26 12:06 PM Try to hang with the people that pass you.  Drafting off of someone you caught up to is pointless.

Not unless you sprinted to get there.....

2012-09-26 3:10 PM
in reply to: #4428115


237
10010025
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
technoyos - 2012-09-26 8:58 AM

Every race (sprints and oly.), the same dilemma - draft or not? I understand (and feel) how important drafting is in the swim leg is, but still:

I can't seem to find a swimmer that is in-sync with my speed, so I find myself swimming not as fast as I can. That is not such a a big problem in itself, but what happens is I don't swim as efficiently and naturally as I'm able to swim, my legs tend to drop more because I'm not creating enough forward momentum and sometime I have to stop myself from hitting the legs of the person I draft off of. 

When I get to annoyed and start swimming faster, by myself,no drafting, trying to catch the next group. I feel I swim much better, much more fluid in the water, but I waste more energy, and the difference from the next group is about 10-15 seconds so I wonder if that worth the effort.

The last race (Olympic distance), I tried stating faster than I usually do, and I found myself swimming with the stronger swimmers, but I still had the same dilemma, I spent the entire swim leg drafting off this guy, often slowing down trying to keep in his stream, knowing that if I swam alone the entire leg I would finish faster, but more tired.

Can anyone share their experience? Are you able to find that perfect match that you can draft off and swim at your perfect pace at the same time? Is drafting always better than not drafting?

 

Thanks,Yossi

Instead of looking for someone to draft off of, start at the front and go fairly hard for the first 100 - 200 meters, then settle in to your pace. If someone passes you and you can keep up with them, jump on their feet. If no one passes you, then you are first out of the water. Congratulations. This is a better approach then trying to find a good draft from the back of the pack.

 

2012-09-26 3:24 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Veteran
512
500
Tempe, Arizona
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

I'm usually a FOP swimmer, so I do get drafted a lot during races, and as long as the person is okay at drafting and can keep in line, I don't mind giving them a free ride.  However, I had one person drafting me during an Oly on Sunday, and in addition to have extremely sharp nails (I have 3 sets of scratches on my right lower leg), he/she wasn't very good at drafting and kept clobbering me.  I finally had enough at 1k, after the third scratchfest, and just sped up for 100 m and pulled clear. 

People - please cut and trim your nails, sharp nails are very uncool during the swim leg Yell

2012-09-26 3:44 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Minneapolis, MN
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Drafting while swimming takes practice to do it well. It should be just as fluid as swimming by yourself. If good at it, then you will be able to sit right on someone's feet , without touching them or losing them. You can then just go much faster and more efficiently. Masters swim practices can help with developing the skill
2012-09-26 3:52 PM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Veteran
559
5002525
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

If it happens, it happens. I dont go out of my way to find "nice feet" but if those telltale little bubbles cross my line of sight.. I am right there like a bat out of hell. My swim is not my strong point, I am front of MOP and any help is good. If I am against the current, then I will look for feet and just sit there. I would rather lose a little time on swim and save myself and make it up on the bike where I am stronger.



2012-09-27 7:51 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Extreme Veteran
1018
1000
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
How far back do you have to be in order to be out of the draft?  What is the the best draft zone?
2012-09-27 8:07 AM
in reply to: #4429743

User image

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

GAUG3 - 2012-09-27 9:51 AM How far back do you have to be in order to be out of the draft?  What is the the best draft zone?

Immediately behind the swimmer in front of you works best for me.  Try not to annoy them by hitting their feet too much but it does happen.  I don't mind someone hitting my feet as long as it isn't every stroke.

2012-09-27 9:26 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Expert
1053
10002525
Culpeper, VA
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question
Sure if it works out, but there is no simple answer since the human factor is an unpredictable variable.  Ideally you'd get on someone's feet that is faster than you but you can hang onto via drafting.  My best swim splits are me grabbing a few feet here and there while sighting a good line. 
2012-09-27 9:40 AM
in reply to: #4428115

User image

Expert
1224
1000100100
Is this Heaven? No, it's Iowa.
Subject: RE: To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question

I'm typically a FOP swimmer in Olympic races so I try to position myself towards the front portion of the swim.  When the gun goes off I take off aggressively to find clean water.  If someone passes me then I try to hang on.  If that person is blowing their load I can usually tell when their pace slows down and I just slide around them.  I keep this process going until I'm in the very front (never happens), I hook on to someone who is going my perfect pace (never happens), or until I get into a nice rythmn with clear water in front of me (sometimes happens). 

Our local tri club does organized OWS in which we practice drafting off of each other.  I do a lot of the pulling but some of the others will return the favor if they have the energy.

During races, proper drafting is almost impossible but finding a good draft for a few 100M at a time is certainly doable.

Oh, and there was talk at our last group swim about working together during a race to pull each other back and forth.  Not sure if we could pull it off but could be fun to try out.

 

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » To (swim) draft, or not to draft, that is my question Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2