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2012-12-20 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
About to do my 20' test...


2012-12-20 9:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

tri808 - 2012-12-20 10:58 AM About to do my 20' test...

Prayers.

 

 

2012-12-20 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Goosedog - 2012-12-20 10:59 AM

tri808 - 2012-12-20 10:58 AM About to do my 20' test...

Prayers.

 

 

Ha Ha! Good luck, Jason. Seems like you do a test every three days or so - when do you ever get the time to actually train?

I'm good with whatever you decide about the group, my only suggestion is to somehow keep "Fred" in the name - obviously as an ode to ol' Penn State, but also because, well, I think it safe to say everyone in this group is a little Fred, if you know what I mean...

2012-12-20 10:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
One-on-one Pilates instruction this morning, and now sitting out the rain hoping to get a 6x400 session later. Nothing too terribly hard, just getting the legs dusted off for some quicker efforts that are coming up in a few weeks. Probably should be using this time to get some presents wrapped.
2012-12-20 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
bzgl40 - 2012-12-20 4:13 AM
axteraa - 2012-12-20 3:46 AM

mndymond - 2012-12-20 1:24 AM Did an open water swim today!! Kind of got smashed around by the chop but ende up going for about a mile. Going to sleep well tonight. Having a bit of anxiety because I still don't have any emergency med interviews and 5 programs are out already

I don't think you are allowed to be anxious when in Hawaii!!  I'm sure it will all work out.

Yes, I do believe they have rules there. 

I'm trying not to be a complete crazy person...but it's getting difficult. My "too type A" personality if fretting and having a difficult time hanging loose....I'm self treating myself with workouts right now. Off to ride my bike!!
2012-12-20 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
gsmacleod - 2012-12-20 9:27 PM
brigby1 - 2012-12-20 2:28 AM

At Masters, was coming in on 1:20-1:22 on the 100's (yds). Had been at more like 1:25 (which was already an improvement), so something was really going well today. Thought it was the draft off the leader, but able to keep it up after switching places, albeit with a bit more effort. Hopefully I can keep that up.

Nice work!
Something I've been trying to remember/figure out is how the various IM strokes can help develop freestyle. Be nice for IM/stroke night to have better selection for improving aspects of that.

Some thoughts: Back - body rotation, feel for the water, always helped my shoulders feel loser Breast - feel for the water, establishing position for pull, streamlining Fly - feel for the water, comfort in breathing, core Shane

Bang-on as usual, Shane. I'd also add "pulling with your whole body" for back and swim-specific strength training for fly



2012-12-20 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

ChrisM - 2012-12-20 8:02 AM I you haven't read Yanti's IMWA race report read it.  It's really fantastic on so many levels

Sniff {MELON PRESS}

Chris, you're my once and always lifesaving calfnibblable inspirational hero.

My brain is in remission for peak IM training (do I do any other kind?) so I can't remember if I posted the link or not:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=471551

2012-12-20 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

20' test was a bit ho hum.  Still not quite used to virtual power as I averaged 311 the first 10' and 334 the second 10' and wasn't even that gassed.  I was pouring on over 500 watts of VP in the last 30 seconds.  HR was also much lower than expected.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/132147

As for the new group, Ron okay'd the idea and he had a good suggestion of starting the group and moving it to the archives first.  So we'd all be able to join up and post in the archives, and once all the other mentor groups are filled, he would move the group to the main mentor group area if anyone else wanted to join in on the conversation.  I have also been communicating with Fred about it and he likes the idea and thought I should move forward with it.  We'll see how it goes.  This mentor session is only scheduled to go for 3 months, so if it doesn't work quite as expected, we can always go back to the old way.



Edited by tri808 2012-12-20 12:00 PM
2012-12-20 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
TriAya - 2012-12-20 11:38 AM
gsmacleod - 2012-12-20 9:27 PM
brigby1 - 2012-12-20 2:28 AM

At Masters, was coming in on 1:20-1:22 on the 100's (yds). Had been at more like 1:25 (which was already an improvement), so something was really going well today. Thought it was the draft off the leader, but able to keep it up after switching places, albeit with a bit more effort. Hopefully I can keep that up.

Nice work!
Something I've been trying to remember/figure out is how the various IM strokes can help develop freestyle. Be nice for IM/stroke night to have better selection for improving aspects of that.

Some thoughts: Back - body rotation, feel for the water, always helped my shoulders feel loser Breast - feel for the water, establishing position for pull, streamlining Fly - feel for the water, comfort in breathing, core Shane

Bang-on as usual, Shane. I'd also add "pulling with your whole body" for back and swim-specific strength training for fly

Thanks! (To Arend too). Also thinking/hoping some of this (like fly) will help out with the arm recovery motion conditioning as well. Last summer with the wetsuit on I could keep pulling ok, but shoulders were tiring out early in the open water swims. I could get through the Oly or HIM swim fine, but the upper shoulder areas could tire later in the bike or on the run.

2012-12-20 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-12-20 12:59 PM

20' test was a bit ho hum.  Still not quite used to virtual power as I averaged 311 the first 10' and 334 the second 10' and wasn't even that gassed.  I was pouring on over 500 watts of VP in the last 30 seconds.  HR was also much lower than expected.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/132147

As for the new group, Ron okay'd the idea and he had a good suggestion of starting the group and moving it to the archives first.  So we'd all be able to join up and post in the archives, and once all the other mentor groups are filled, he would move the group to the main mentor group area if anyone else wanted to join in on the conversation.  I have also been communicating with Fred about it and he likes the idea and thought I should move forward with it.  We'll see how it goes.  This mentor session is only scheduled to go for 3 months, so if it doesn't work quite as expected, we can always go back to the old way.

Nice work! 

The virtual power does have a bit of a learning curve.  When I switched trainers (from Fluid to KK) it took me a week of rides to kind of reset my zones again until testing again.

2012-12-20 1:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
rymac - 2012-12-20 8:53 AM
tri808 - 2012-12-20 12:59 PM

20' test was a bit ho hum.  Still not quite used to virtual power as I averaged 311 the first 10' and 334 the second 10' and wasn't even that gassed.  I was pouring on over 500 watts of VP in the last 30 seconds.  HR was also much lower than expected.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/132147

As for the new group, Ron okay'd the idea and he had a good suggestion of starting the group and moving it to the archives first.  So we'd all be able to join up and post in the archives, and once all the other mentor groups are filled, he would move the group to the main mentor group area if anyone else wanted to join in on the conversation.  I have also been communicating with Fred about it and he likes the idea and thought I should move forward with it.  We'll see how it goes.  This mentor session is only scheduled to go for 3 months, so if it doesn't work quite as expected, we can always go back to the old way.

Nice work! 

The virtual power does have a bit of a learning curve.  When I switched trainers (from Fluid to KK) it took me a week of rides to kind of reset my zones again until testing again.

Yeah...it'll take me a few more rides to dial it in.  One good thing is I was able to stay on my bars the whole 20 minutes.  I had a few points where I really wanted to sit up for a few seconds but resisted.



2012-12-20 1:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

The new group is in created in the staging area as "SBR Utopia".  I wanted to keep Fred's name in it, but decided that this group isn't about any one person.  It's about all of us.  Fred is a great leader, but the group is a success because of each and every member. 

Once Ron moves it back here to the archives, I suppose that's when it's live.

2012-12-20 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
rymac - 2012-12-19 3:08 PM

Tested on the bike today to see my progress over the last 8 weeks

20MP: 312 from 300

FTP: 296 from 285 (4% Improvement)

VO2 (5MP): 353 from 337 (5% Improvement)

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/131310

Happy with it...Just in time for 3x15' at FTP next week LOL.

Nice improvement Ryan.

2012-12-20 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-12-20 12:59 PM

20' test was a bit ho hum.  Still not quite used to virtual power as I averaged 311 the first 10' and 334 the second 10' and wasn't even that gassed.  I was pouring on over 500 watts of VP in the last 30 seconds.  HR was also much lower than expected.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/132147

Jason - are you not running the PT at the same time?  I'm curious how the numbers compare.

2012-12-20 2:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
GoFaster - 2012-12-20 9:58 AM
tri808 - 2012-12-20 12:59 PM

20' test was a bit ho hum.  Still not quite used to virtual power as I averaged 311 the first 10' and 334 the second 10' and wasn't even that gassed.  I was pouring on over 500 watts of VP in the last 30 seconds.  HR was also much lower than expected.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/132147

Jason - are you not running the PT at the same time?  I'm curious how the numbers compare.

I did, but the numbers are way off.  I think the PT read out something like 230.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle.  I'd guess it "felt" like 265.

I've come to accept that my outdoor and trainer power will never match for me.  So it's just a matter of creating baselines and improving on them.  Once I switch my trainer tire off my PT wheel, the PT is not going back on the trainer for simplicity's sake.

2012-12-20 10:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
I GOT AN EMERG INTERVIEW!! At my home school. Might be my only one...at least it's one though?? Did a ride and ended up with TWO flat tires..first one was on the road and I was pretty close to my condo so I decided to just walk back...and ended up with my front tire being popped on a thorn...had to go buy some new tubes!! Haha. Went for a 2700yd swim too. Ready for bed!


2012-12-21 3:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

mndymond - 2012-12-21 12:48 PM I GOT AN EMERG INTERVIEW!! At my home school. Might be my only one...at least it's one though?? Did a ride and ended up with TWO flat tires..first one was on the road and I was pretty close to my condo so I decided to just walk back...and ended up with my front tire being popped on a thorn...had to go buy some new tubes!! Haha. Went for a 2700yd swim too. Ready for bed!

YAY!!! For the interview, not the flats Good on ya for getting out there, though, and nice swim!

2012-12-21 6:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
So marathon training started this week and with the groups suggestion I am capping the long run at 16.  It'll be an interesting experiment.  However, once a week one of my runs is suppose to be at marathon pace.  I don't think I can really do that, I live at 5000 ft in a quite hilly town and will be racing on mostly flat at 2000ft.  So way harder to run here.  So I am thinking I'd do effort based runs instead.  Which leads me to my question.  What effort level should I be looking to hit for a marathon?  I assume I'm going to ultimately build into a harder effort.  My previous marathons have all been done at a half assed effort for one reason or another (or up a mountain so hard to use that race as a guide).  I could do HR training but honestly the HR monitor really bugs me when I run now for some reason so I've enjoyed my runs way more without it.
2012-12-21 7:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

 

bzgl40 - 2012-12-21 7:10 AM So marathon training started this week and with the groups suggestion I am capping the long run at 16.  It'll be an interesting experiment.  However, once a week one of my runs is suppose to be at marathon pace.  I don't think I can really do that, I live at 5000 ft in a quite hilly town and will be racing on mostly flat at 2000ft.  So way harder to run here.  So I am thinking I'd do effort based runs instead.  Which leads me to my question.  What effort level should I be looking to hit for a marathon?  I assume I'm going to ultimately build into a harder effort.  My previous marathons have all been done at a half assed effort for one reason or another (or up a mountain so hard to use that race as a guide).  I could do HR training but honestly the HR monitor really bugs me when I run now for some reason so I've enjoyed my runs way more without it.

Sounds like you have perfect conditions to train for a flatland marathon!Laughing

I agree that running by pace in Payson may not be the best way to train for a flat marathon. Me? I would suck it up and get use to the HRM, but if it really bugs you then you are left with RPE:

RPE Scale
BALRefers to Balance (as in remainder of)
PEPerceived Exertion, 1 = Easiest & 10 = Max (all out)
EZ --Low end Mod (moderate)Self-explanatory:  This is a very aerobic effort that can be maintained for several hours. Equivalent to roughly 65%-75% of max HR. This would also be about PE of 1-3. [Zone 1-Low end Z2 based on HR zones 1-5]. Increases blood volume and capillary development, thus expanding aerobic capacity. Builds base. Also used for active recovery.
MOD (moderate)Moderate: Still a very aerobic effort. Approx. 75%-80% of max HR [Zone 2-mid Z 3] PE of  4-high 6. This range also aids in building the aerobic system, base, & endurance.
COMF. HARDComfortably Hard: Still aerobic, but can push upper limits of aerobic capacity (lactate threshold). You’ll see me capitalize this abbreviation "COMF" at times in order to emphasize the lower end of this zone (in this case PE of about 7, otherwise it can be up to 8.5 PE depending on duration). This is really 80%-87% of maxHR. PE = 7-8.5. [High Z 3-mid Z 4] Builds strength, power & endurance. Helps raise LT (Lactate Threshold) and Aerobic Threshold.
HardI use this to designate “Short Course” ( "sprint" distance tri/du’s, 10k and shorter run races, etc.) race pace or faster. This is approx. 87-97% of maxHR. PE = 8.5 – 9.5 [high Z 4 – low Z 5]. Builds speed & strength & helps raise AT (Anaerobic Threshold) and VO2 . Highly depends on fitness level-but can usually only be maintained for periods of  btwn 12min--2hrs(in very highly trained athletes). 
HARD (capitalizedThese efforts are basically all out, and can be sustained for very brief periods. The efforts are a real "push" at approx 97%+ of maxHR. PE = 9.5-10. [Zone 5]. Again fitness levels vary widely. These efforts usually can only be maintained for periods of btwn 30sec.-12min. 
P/U’s“Pick Ups.” These are normally done for race preparation. Short, smooth, relaxed, controlled efforts up to & slightly faster than race pace. You want to "build" your speed slowly throughout

 Your long run should spend a good bit of time in the EZ effort, then build into Moderate. It will be very difficult to run the first part of the marathon slow enough - you really need to practice that. If you have to walk the hills in training to stay in that effort, then do so. Eventually you will find yourself getting much more efficient working the hills and you wont have to walk to keep your effort down. Stick with it no matter how frustrating. From my own experience I would also try to find some flat running - I ran Chicago one year with most of my training on the hills and I have to tell you that the incessant flatness really ground me down. My legs were just not prepped for all that repetitive motion - they were much more used to the variety and changing muscle use that hills afford. Don't be fooled by the difficulty of a flat marathon! Good luck, I look forward to following along - you are going to do great.

2012-12-21 8:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Thanks Rusty, that is kind of what I was thinking it should be, nice to see confirmation.  I'll give the HRM another go just for giggles.  I trained for my last marathon using it, as well as my HIM's, so not sure why it is bugging me now.
2012-12-21 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Kim, re the HRM if it's the strap that's bugging you it might be worth trying a different sports bra. I have some that hold the strap in place better than others. You mentioned you had "lost" your girls as a result of your body composition getting leaner. Your old bras may not fit anymore.

I also switched to using a Polar strap with my Garmin a while ago (ummmm, think you are the one that told me to try that with the 310 spikes). I think the Polar is more comfortable. 



2012-12-21 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

bzgl40 - 2012-12-21 4:10 AM So marathon training started this week and with the groups suggestion I am capping the long run at 16.  It'll be an interesting experiment.  However, once a week one of my runs is suppose to be at marathon pace.  I don't think I can really do that, I live at 5000 ft in a quite hilly town and will be racing on mostly flat at 2000ft.  So way harder to run here.  So I am thinking I'd do effort based runs instead.  Which leads me to my question.  What effort level should I be looking to hit for a marathon?  I assume I'm going to ultimately build into a harder effort.  My previous marathons have all been done at a half assed effort for one reason or another (or up a mountain so hard to use that race as a guide).  I could do HR training but honestly the HR monitor really bugs me when I run now for some reason so I've enjoyed my runs way more without it.

Which marathon are you doing?

2012-12-21 11:26 AM
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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
riorio - 2012-12-21 10:13 AM

bzgl40 - 2012-12-21 4:10 AM So marathon training started this week and with the groups suggestion I am capping the long run at 16.  It'll be an interesting experiment.  However, once a week one of my runs is suppose to be at marathon pace.  I don't think I can really do that, I live at 5000 ft in a quite hilly town and will be racing on mostly flat at 2000ft.  So way harder to run here.  So I am thinking I'd do effort based runs instead.  Which leads me to my question.  What effort level should I be looking to hit for a marathon?  I assume I'm going to ultimately build into a harder effort.  My previous marathons have all been done at a half assed effort for one reason or another (or up a mountain so hard to use that race as a guide).  I could do HR training but honestly the HR monitor really bugs me when I run now for some reason so I've enjoyed my runs way more without it.

Which marathon are you doing?

I'm going pretty low key and heading to Cottonwood to do the Brian Mickelsen Memorial Run/Walk.  I think the marathon will be pretty small but I like the area the run is going through.  Plus a good way to check out my new town (moving there shortly after)

2012-12-21 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

We've been off work the last couple of days and it's been great.  The weather has been decent so we took the dogs to the beach both days which is insane for this time of year!

I got in a short but good swim this morning and a nice 45 min run as well.  

Best part of the day so far has been when my sushi guy called to offer me a super deal on a party tray tonight.  Ummm, ok!  Smile

2012-12-21 1:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
axteraa - 2012-12-21 2:04 PM

We've been off work the last couple of days and it's been great.  The weather has been decent so we took the dogs to the beach both days which is insane for this time of year!

I got in a short but good swim this morning and a nice 45 min run as well.  

Best part of the day so far has been when my sushi guy called to offer me a super deal on a party tray tonight.  Ummm, ok!  Smile

You have a sushi guy....

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