General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Sweet spot riding? Rss Feed  
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2012-10-01 9:23 AM

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Subject: Sweet spot riding?

I've read a few things about riding in the "sweet spot" (somewhere around zone 3) recently, and how that will help to increase your VO2max so that you can produce more power at your lower HR.  

How long should the sweet spot rides be?  Should I be doing a 2-hour ride at that HR, or should it be shorter intervals?

I don't have any logs on BT, but I have done a few HIM (bike anywhere from 2:55 to 3:20, depending on the course) and have done a swim/bike training day at IM distance.  I have endurance, but now I'm trying to build speed.



2012-10-01 9:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?
I think you want to increase your FTP.  If this is the case take a look at Jorge's winter cycling plan for the types of workouts that it would consist of. 
2012-10-01 10:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?
As long as you are able.  "Sweet spot" is just good, hard, solid work.  It's not specifically targeting VO2max and is more focused on your threshold and endurance.  That likely is what you need to work on the most, anyway.  You'd use shorter, harder intervals to really push VO2max.  And can do so for more targeted threshold work, as well.  You want a combination of efforts in training.  Exactly what combination depends upon time of season, available time to train, goals, current ability, etc.
2012-10-01 3:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?

Thanks for the info.

I've done Jorge's winter plan a few times, and I followed my coach's plan last winter.  I guess I'm just looking for info on whether, for example, the 2 x 15' @ zone 3 with 5' rest in Jorge's plan would be a better workout than an hour steady at zone 3.  Is it going to negatively affect my riding if I do too long of workouts in zone 3, without enough zone 2 thrown in?

2012-10-01 3:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?

It'll be a harder workout, but it's not anything outrageous. You can try it to see. You'll be more tired, may need to rework some things around it. Or you may not. I don't mean to be vague, but this is getting into a more individual area where it depends on how hard one wants to push and how well they can rest/recover. I do get that much Zone 3 into some rides, but would break it up into more like 3-4 x 15' instead of 1 x 60'. Unless I had more of a reason to go for 60' straight.

Sweet Spot is rather vague on how you do it because it's more that you do just get it in as opposed to how you do it. So no, there is nothing wrong with getting in 60 min in a workout. Watch how it effects your training in general to see if you can handle it ok, or if you should back off some.

2012-10-01 4:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?

Sweet Spot Training is defined as lower level 4 (88-94% FTP). The idea behind SST is that you can train here for longer periods of time without needing too much recovery. When you train at a higher intensity, the training adaptations are quicker, but the cost in recovery is also greater.

Training in this area should help push up FTP and VO2max. It will also help with endurance, although sustained efforts in a lower zone (Z2/3) will be more useful for endurance (base).

A lot of training depends on how much time you have and are willing to dedicate. The more time you have, the less time you spend at the higher zones as a percentage. This is because recovery is still required between harder efforts. If you are looking at increasing your base, your best bet is to have one or two longer (2-3 hrs) rides per week in Z2/Z3 plus one or two 1-1:30 hr SST rides with 30-45 minutes of SST (e.g. 2-3 x 15m w/ 5m recovery). If you want to do more than this, add in another 1:30 Z1/Z2 ride. If you feel like you are getting burned out after a few weeks, cut back on the SST rides for a week and replace them with Z1/Z2 (a recovery week). Over the course of a  few weeks, you'll find that you can maintain a faster pace with a lower HR. Keep this up and you will be a stronger cyclist next year. As the race season approaches, increase the intensity (add in Z5 and some higher Z4) and replace some other intensity with recovery. If you have a riding group it makes this all a lot more fun.

Do you have a power meter? Something I've found very useful is checking my watts versus HR. Next year you'll be looking at a 2:30 bike split for a HIM.



2012-10-01 8:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?

Thanks again everyone, and thanks MonkeyClaw for the details.  I do have time, but I also have 3 years of base training (year round) at near IM time/distance (I train with 2 IM racers), so I feel ready to put more work and less base riding in.

I'll give it a try and see what happens!

2012-10-01 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?
And no, I don't have a power meter yet.  I'm hoping if I'm really good, Santa might bring one for Christmas.  For now, I just train by HR (which I've establish via blood lactate testing).
2012-10-01 10:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Sweet spot riding?
I do almost all of my riding on my KK trainer, which gives me a poor man's wattage estimate. My SST workouts are generally in the form of 3-4 intervals totaling 60-100 minutes of harder riding. I find them to be definitely hard work, but not as soul crushing as the workouts right at FTP, and so I can do more of them. Or sometimes if I'm short on time I simply hop on the bike and warm up then do 40-45 minutes of moderately intense riding (around 90% of FTP) and call it a day. These workouts are at a level of intensity that I wouldn't really want to do the very next day, but I could face it if pushed. Contrast that with FTP workouts, which I'd beg for mercy if I had to repeat them again the next day.
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