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2012-10-02 2:06 PM

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Subject: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

It seems I am seeing more drafting than I used to.  I have seen examples at both big and small races of folks intentionally drafting.  I have been blatantly drafted and invited to draft on a number of occasions.  And we're talking close paceline stuff, not just a bike length too close.

It very well could be because I'm getting faster and thus running with the bigger dogs.  But frankly, they're the ones who shouldn't be doing it.  No one will get too worked up about a BOPer drafting a friend but it's definitely not cool for someone who's in the hunt for an AG podium to do it (don't know about the overall podium... I'm never racing with those guys).  I don't know, maybe it's always been some sort of quiet thing among some of the faster racers?

I know, all I can do is race my race.  I've just been surprised by the frequency and openness of it.



2012-10-02 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
balme it on the ITU races
2012-10-02 2:11 PM
in reply to: #4437339

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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
I noticed a lot of drafting this weekend at Superfrog.  I would see small packs of 5-6 people consistently riding together, especially once the wind started to pick up.
2012-10-02 2:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

This annoys me to no end. I can't understand why people would cheat like this. When I am racing, whether I am fighting for the podium or not, my main "battle" is with myself, I want to go harder, faster, longer. If I am drafting off of someone, I am depriving myself of the opportunity.

On the sprint I did Saturday, we had a decent headwind on the first half of the bike, towards the end of it, I was passed by a pace line of about 10 people, this annoyed me so much, that after we got to the turn-around, I challenged myself to go as hard as possible and picking them up one by one (they saw the officials coming our way and they spread out a little). It ended up helping me in the end in my performance, because going that hard made me have a great race.

Anyway, people that draft intentionally like that should be ashamed of themselves, and those who don't should speak up (which I promised myself I will start doing from now on) and tell them so.

2012-10-02 2:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

I speculate that it has a lot to do with more races, and races getting larger and larger, as well as the influx of less experienced/skilled cyclists (please don't take that a condemning).  The problem is amplified when you have loop courses.

- more races means that localities are having to support/approve more events that disrupt the norm.  So  now instead of shutting down a lane of traffic for the bike course, events have to cone off a much smaller area.  Case in point, my last race there were sections that I don't think the Schleck brothers could have passed each other on it was so thin.

- with the popularity growing more people are registering for races thus the now smaller course are more populated.  As many folks are just trying starting to get into the sport, bike handling skills and knowledge of the rules is less prevalent.  I find that more and more folks are ridding smack dab in the middle of the coned off lane and/or are very skittish when being passed.

- lastly for a lot of the local races you may end up doing a 2 or 3 loop bike course so the issues only tend to repeat themselves on each loop. 

2012-10-02 2:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

I used to get upset about it, but now it doesn't really bother me all that much.  I do this as a hobby, and frankly, unless it's going to cost me a Kona spot (not likely in my lifetime), then I really don't care if anyone cheats.  At the end of the day, I can go home and sleep at night just fine. 

I've had an AG award taken away because of faulty timing systems at a bike road race this summer.  Spectator photos clearly showed I placed 3rd, but was given something like 10th because timing chips were not used.  I thought about protesting, but realized I don't really care.  Instead of making a stink with the RD, I just had a couple of free beers that they were offering after the race and I was pretty happy with that.



2012-10-02 8:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

psycleridr - 2012-10-01 10:08 PM balme it on the ITU races

X2

2012-10-02 8:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
spearit - 2012-10-02 10:20 PM

psycleridr - 2012-10-01 10:08 PM balme it on the ITU races

X2



Yes, I'm sure the reason that the OP is noticing more drafting is because everyone thinks that they are named Brownlee or Spirig.

Shane
2012-10-02 8:58 PM
in reply to: #4437943

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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
gsmacleod - 2012-10-02 3:30 PM
spearit - 2012-10-02 10:20 PM

psycleridr - 2012-10-01 10:08 PM balme it on the ITU races

X2

Yes, I'm sure the reason that the OP is noticing more drafting is because everyone thinks that they are named Brownlee or Spirig. Shane

Should I use my road bike or tri bike for my next race.  Hmm...road bike with shorty aero bars...then we can draft!!!

2012-10-02 9:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

I had a butthead draft on me for 10 miles this Sunday.  He got called out by a guy who was passing him.  Went something like this.  " Hey a-hole!  I didn't know this was a draft legal race being USAT!"  The draftee didn't say anything that I could hear and when the guy who passed him passed me he asked if I knew I was being leached on.  I said yeah for about 10 miles now and that I couldn't shake him.  Draftee then decided to pass me and start drafting off the guy who chewed him out. 

Draftee got third in the race...I was pissed since I got 5th.  I don't think I was fast enough on the bike if it would have been a fair race to beat him anyways but if I was the 4th place guy I would have probably said something to the guy.

It sucks.

2012-10-02 9:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
I have a nasty way of dealing with drafters.  If I notice someone leeching off of me, I purposely slow down.  When he gets peaved enough to pass me, I let him by.  Then I kick it up and crush him.

As for keeping myself from doing it... If I come up on somebody's tail, my competitive side takes over.  At that point, the only thing on my mind is, literally, "I dunno who you are, but I WILL pass you."  It works for me.


2012-10-02 10:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
Oh, not the D-word again! -Well, it's a different kind of racing. I mean, is Alistair Brownlee less an athlete than Sebastian Kienle (70.3 world champ)? I don't think so. -In Mexico we have mostly sprints and olys, with ITU rules, so I guess you get used to it, and the Kiwis, Aussies, Canadians, Germans, Spaniards are embracing the concept and getting silverware at the Olympics, so I say the US should start doing so, and start inluding that format in College Programs (I read women's triathlon is about to make the NCAA) if ever want to dominate the sport. -Just my 0.02. --------(no spacing because my iPad hates me, or BT hates iPads. Sorry)----------
2012-10-02 10:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

tricky_jgc - 2012-10-02 10:01 PM Oh, not the D-word again! -Well, it's a different kind of racing. I mean, is Alistair Brownlee less an athlete than Sebastian Kienle (70.3 world champ)? I don't think so. -In Mexico we have mostly sprints and olys, with ITU rules, so I guess you get used to it, and the Kiwis, Aussies, Canadians, Germans, Spaniards are embracing the concept and getting silverware at the Olympics, so I say the US should start doing so, and start inluding that format in College Programs (I read women's triathlon is about to make the NCAA) if ever want to dominate the sport. -Just my 0.02. --------(no spacing because my iPad hates me, or BT hates iPads. Sorry)----------

We have started. It will take a few years, but I attended every youth/junior elite race in the draft legal series in the country this year.  There are some screaming fast kids coming, and all they want to do is race draft legal.  USAT has done a great job promoting High Performance Youth Teams. Our day is coming...watch and see.

I will tell you this, it will probably never catch on with the middle aged, just starting out, triathlon crowd.....but if you REALLY think you are ready to race.....go do an ITU rules race.  Fair warning....if you can't swim 1:10 pace, you're OUT of the race, at any age.  And no, you can't swim 1:30 pace and think you will catch the bike pack, you won't.  If you can't run a 17:00 5K pace, at any age, you're OUT. If you can't hold your line in a pack of 20 riders doing 23 mph plus, OUT.  If you can't stand the thought of crashing.....OUT.  Did I mention those times are for the 13-15 year olds? Smoking fast kids....and coming to a triathlon near you.....just watch.

You can say it's not your thing, and I get it 100%.....but you can't say it's not some badass racing...because it's ALL race....and it's not for the faint of heart.

2012-10-03 5:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
Sous - 2012-10-02 9:28 PM

I speculate that it has a lot to do with more races, and races getting larger and larger, as well as the influx of less experienced/skilled cyclists (please don't take that a condemning).  The problem is amplified when you have loop courses.

In this context the ITU rules are actually very pragmatic. And one have to recognize that more loops makes the event more spectator friendly which helps grow popularity, it's cheaper to organize as less volunteers and fewer aid stations are needed along the route and less roads need to be blocked.

But, it just doesn't work to prohibit drafting on shorter distances with many loops. 

I've done one Oly with a 4x10K bike circuit and 850 registered. Spread these out evenly and it's 10m between each bike. 

This weekend I have an Oly with a 10K loop bike route. Last year 1700 participated, spread those out evenly, means that they had less than 5m between each.

It's pretty much impossible to uphold non-drafting rules with these conditions, in particular if the race course also have sharp turns where congestion is likely. The route this weekend even has two 180º turns.

2012-10-03 9:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

The problem is the post from Left Brain is correct.  If you aren't a top swimmer you'll most likely miss on the fast draft line.  Even if you get in a later fast draft line you'll still be behind at the run, and until your draft line formed you're losing ground on the earlier draft line.

The other issue is it won't take long until teams are formed and anyone not on a team is toast; as in before the race even starts.  Doesn't matter how good you are.  Lance, Wiggins, Chrissie, it doesn't matter.  If you're not in the team line you're losing ground.  I like watching the TdF, but that's not what I'm looking for in a triathlon.  I want a race of individuals, not a race of teams and individuals left behind.

I biked some in college and I can draft fine.  To me it's just not a part of a triathlon.  I'm not against it because I can't do it.

Follow the rules.  If it's USTA "no drafting".  If it's ITU "drafting is fine".

2012-10-03 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
waynec - 2012-10-03 9:23 AM

The problem is the post from Left Brain is correct.  If you aren't a top swimmer you'll most likely miss on the fast draft line.  Even if you get in a later fast draft line you'll still be behind at the run, and until your draft line formed you're losing ground on the earlier draft line.

The other issue is it won't take long until teams are formed and anyone not on a team is toast; as in before the race even starts.  Doesn't matter how good you are.  Lance, Wiggins, Chrissie, it doesn't matter.  If you're not in the team line you're losing ground.  I like watching the TdF, but that's not what I'm looking for in a triathlon.  I want a race of individuals, not a race of teams and individuals left behind.

I biked some in college and I can draft fine.  To me it's just not a part of a triathlon.  I'm not against it because I can't do it.

Follow the rules.  If it's USTA "no drafting".  If it's ITU "drafting is fine".

Agree.  My post was a response to "tricky" and not really a comment on drafting in a non-draft race.  I do, however,  find it confusing to use USAT to describe non-draft races since USAT backs all of the draft-legal races I went to and is the sole measurement for Youth Elite and High Performance teams.  In fact, I could make the argument that the best thing about USAT is the work they are doing to bring our standing in the International triathlon ring up a few notches.

For sure, non-draft and draft-legal races are two different animals, and should be kept that way. Part of the problem was brought up in another post.......over-crowding.  That's an easy fix, but it cuts into profits if you have less competitiors and more roads to close.



2012-10-03 9:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
I think the OP's concern is that people that are racing come to cheat. We have all been in the draft box at a crowded race not on purpose and we do the best we can to back off/or pass and race within the rules. But when you see the peloton go cranking by that's what is wrong and I can't help but think that those individuals came there with that intention. I don't get it. And it's not just men.
2012-10-03 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

tri/tbay - 2012-10-03 9:57 AM I think the OP's concern is that people that are racing come to cheat. We have all been in the draft box at a crowded race not on purpose and we do the best we can to back off/or pass and race within the rules. But when you see the peloton go cranking by that's what is wrong and I can't help but think that those individuals came there with that intention. I don't get it. And it's not just men.

While I agree that it happens, It'd be a stretch for me to conclude that people come to the race to cheat.  I think for alot of them, they just don't care.  They came to finish a triathlon.  Everyone has different goals, and yeah, I know that rules are rules.....but you could DQ 99% of these folks at the end of a race and they'd leave just like they would have if you didn't DQ them.....finished with the race.  It might have some teeth if you started pulling people off the course for drafting....good luck with that.

I guess at the end of the day I have a hard time caring about it......I race my race and let it fall where it does.  I'm not getting paid to do this.

2012-10-03 10:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

I don't like drafting, not my thing, but it kind of goes with my view on politics and life in general.  The rules need to change to what the people are doing, within safety guidelines.  If the shorter races are crowded enough and people seem to want to draft, change the rules to reflect this.  Make it legal and you can regulate it better.  Just saying a flat out 'no' when the majority want a 'yes' will always lead to trouble.  Think how well prohibition worked.

I think there can be different races, short and loop races draft legal - long point to point races no drafting.  People can choose depending on their preference.  It's worth considering...

2012-10-03 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
I've never really understood why drafting is illegal. I know, it's to keep it individual, but it just always seemed silly to me.
2012-10-03 11:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
As a beginner biker, I agree with your assessment of newbies riding in the middle of the lane and being skittish when passes. I ride on the right, but I hate being passed. However, I think new people being the ones who are drafting is incorrect. Most new people, in my experience, would NEVER put their bike so close to another bike!! I would freak if someone came up behind me so close!! I don't know the reason for the increase in drafting, but I doubt it is the new folks!!!


2012-10-03 11:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

I did a half distance aquabike early Sept.  Starting around mile 45, I pulled up near to two bikers who were blatantly drafting off each other.  Took me about 4 miles to finally catch up and pass them.  Throughout the entire 4 miles, they drafted.  When I passed them, I said, "Nice drafting."  Took about another 4 miles before I couldn't see them anymore when turning around.  During those 4 miles, they kept drafting.  

Yes, all I can do is race my own race.  Regardless, it pissed me off.  And it made me happy that I was faster and didn't draft.

2012-10-03 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
eggraid101 - 2012-10-03 12:44 PM

I've never really understood why drafting is illegal. I know, it's to keep it individual, but it just always seemed silly to me.


In addition to the individual aspect, there are a few other issues that come into play:

1) We allow TT bikes which are a terrible idea in group riding
2) We don't evaluate bike handling skills
3) Race directors don't want to lap people out

Shane
2012-10-03 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?
Just like many other sports, some folks must think "if I don't get caught, it isn't cheating" . I participated in the first Augusta 70.3 in 2009. There appeared to be only a few course officals, so much of the course was not monitored very well. I saw several cases of oraganized drafting. The starting order of the AG waves was such that the 55+ AG wave that I was in started ahead of some faster age group waves. After several miles the faster groups started catching up and passing. I saw repeated cases of groups of up to 10+ riders in organized packs drafting. This was true pace line stuff like you see in team time trials.

It didn't bother me, I was just suprised that so much drafitng was going on in a WTC event. I particpate in TRIs as a hobby and the only person I am competing against is myself. I was pleased with my bike split, averaging 17.8 mph without any drafting; not too bad for a 62 year old fart.

Edited by browncd 2012-10-03 11:31 AM
2012-10-03 12:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Is illegal bike drafting becoming more common?

The field should be cut down so there are no excuses of "the roads are too packed".  Then how would WTC make money?

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