General Discussion Triathlon Talk » New bike vs Old bike power Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2012-10-16 5:14 AM

Regular
181
100252525
Subject: New bike vs Old bike power

I did a 60 mile charity ride the other day with a friend.  He has been biking about 3 months, I've been doing about 70-100 miles weekly for about a year.  But he was killing me out there.  I know we are in both equal shape, but I just couldn't keep up after mile 50.  And I know it's mostly about the "engine", but it just seemed like he was pedaling with effortlessness, and I was working my butt off.

So I was just curious, how much more efficient is a new bike compared to my old one?  He rides a new carbon framed Giant TCR.  I have a 20 year old carbon framed Kestrel.  Anyone know how much power is gained from a new bike over an old one, or at least an estimate of power gained? 

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to work my butt off this off-season so this doesn't happen again, but just curious if my bike is just so old, all the work I do is lost due to the inefficiency of my bike?



2012-10-16 7:33 AM
in reply to: #4455213

User image

Pro
5892
5000500100100100252525
, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power
Power... none. You can't gain power switching between two different bikes (if they are set up with the same geometry). You can use less power for a given speed due to aerodynamic properties (and to a degree weight uphill).

More than likely, there are two parameters that may result in this... either your buddy is simply slightly stronger than you (and/or is more efficient, which means more energy left towards the end of the ride); or, more, likely, just have a better bike fit than you, making him use less energy due to aerodynamics and/or power generation (efficiency).
2012-10-16 10:38 AM
in reply to: #4455213

User image

Veteran
663
5001002525
Central Point
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power
How much difference will maintenance make? On a new bike you have fresh grease and bearing. On an older bike the grease may old and (stiffer?) and the bearing not rolling as well. I don't know but I'm curious. Hubs & BB?
2012-10-16 11:15 AM
in reply to: #4455314

Regular
181
100252525
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power

audiojan - 2012-10-16 8:33 AM Power... none. You can't gain power switching between two different bikes (if they are set up with the same geometry). You can use less power for a given speed due to aerodynamic properties (and to a degree weight uphill). More than likely, there are two parameters that may result in this... either your buddy is simply slightly stronger than you (and/or is more efficient, which means more energy left towards the end of the ride); or, more, likely, just have a better bike fit than you, making him use less energy due to aerodynamics and/or power generation (efficiency).

I guess I just don't understand then.  I know a guy who is an avid racer.  He recently did some Pikes Peak mountain climb with his super expensive Trek.  And afterwards he just kept saying how amazing it was since his bike climbed with crazy power.  He said his other bikes just don't transfer the power like the Trek.  It couldn't have been more aero since he was basically going uphill and slow. 

I look at it like if you had a corvette engine and dropped it in a focus.  With that big motor, you still won't likely get the performance you would if that engine was in the corvette.  The focus just can't transfer the power of the engine like the corvette can.  Some of the power is lost in the frame, gears, etc of the focus. With the corvette, the frame, gears, etc are made to handle the engine, so power is harnessed, not lost. 

That should be the same with a bike, right?  What am I missing from this?

2012-10-16 11:23 AM
in reply to: #4455213

User image

Pro
5892
5000500100100100252525
, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power
Yes, but you asked about power and that won't change. If you asked about speed, then yes, one bike can be more efficient than another, but we're not talking tremendous difference. Bike fit can make an enormous difference though... the rider accounts for the vast majority of the drag and is solely producing the power (obviously... unless you're on a tandem). The more efficient you can be, i.e. the least wasted energy, the longer you can ride. Think about it as MPG for a car.

In terms of maintenance, yes, that does make a different, but again, a fairly minor one. If you compare steel bearings to ceramic bearing for example, the savings is a few W, so very minor. You'll see the same thing with new bearings versus worn (but not worn out mind you!).

Really, the only way to know if you are your buddy is truly on the same level for both of you to do a test on each others bikes, but you will need to do that over multiple days to reduce the impact of fatigue, average out multiple rides etc.

Edited by audiojan 2012-10-16 11:25 AM
2012-10-16 1:08 PM
in reply to: #4455213

Regular
181
100252525
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power

OK, so maybe I get it now. Fit is that important, huh?

I will add that he bought his bike from a store that fitted him up, nothing special, but they did see him sit on the bike, pedal, etc. and chose the right size.  Then they did a purchase adjustment, then another adjustment a month later where they changed his seat height, position, etc.

For me, I bought my bike used based on measurements taken using a website guide.  And I did the "fit" myself.  I often think the bike is a bit small for me since when I get on my old steel schwinn, which is 2 cm bigger, it feels much more powerful, except that it weighs a ton. Also, when I pedal on the trainer, I sometimes notice pedal strokes where it "misses"and doesn't feel like I pedaled.  When I am out riding, I don't ever notice that "missed"feeling, which might be due to all the other things I am concentrating on?

So maybe I should take my old bike in to get it fitted as best as possible to even the gap a bit?  Then save for a new bike?



2012-10-16 2:43 PM
in reply to: #4455213

User image

Pro
4578
20002000500252525
Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power
How were you feeling after mile 50? Were you starting to get tired.
2012-10-16 7:46 PM
in reply to: #4456251

Regular
181
100252525
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power

jeng - 2012-10-16 3:43 PM How were you feeling after mile 50? Were you starting to get tired.

Yeah, at 50, I was done.  My stomach was growling and felt empty.  We stopped at mile 52 and I tried to eat, but couldn't.  Maybe I waited too long to eat?  On runs where I am by myself, I eat all the time, but the first portion of the trip we were going so fast I couldn't get my food out.  There were rest areas at miles 20 and 40 where I ate a banana at each and had a bonk breaker at one as well.

Also, it had rained for 2 days straight up to the morning of the ride.  At mile 22, as everyone was crossing a narrow wooden bridge which was as slick as ice, the first guy went down, then we all crashed.  My front tire was bent a bit, about a centimeter? Enough to where I could feel it chatter and had to open up my brakes all the way or it would rub.  I crashed again (solo this time) around mile 42 on some slick rail road tracks.  My head hit pretty hard, enough to break off part of my helmet, though I felt ok other than more bruises.

2012-10-17 8:35 AM
in reply to: #4456745

User image

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: New bike vs Old bike power
kilgoretrout - 2012-10-16 9:46 PM

Yeah, at 50, I was done.  My stomach was growling and felt empty.  We stopped at mile 52 and I tried to eat, but couldn't.  Maybe I waited too long to eat?  On runs where I am by myself, I eat all the time, but the first portion of the trip we were going so fast I couldn't get my food out.  There were rest areas at miles 20 and 40 where I ate a banana at each and had a bonk breaker at one as well.

Also, it had rained for 2 days straight up to the morning of the ride.  At mile 22, as everyone was crossing a narrow wooden bridge which was as slick as ice, the first guy went down, then we all crashed.  My front tire was bent a bit, about a centimeter? Enough to where I could feel it chatter and had to open up my brakes all the way or it would rub.  I crashed again (solo this time) around mile 42 on some slick rail road tracks.  My head hit pretty hard, enough to break off part of my helmet, though I felt ok other than more bruises.



So, with all of the above, you think what made the difference at mile 50 was the bike?

Shane
2012-10-18 12:18 PM
in reply to: #4456745

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » New bike vs Old bike power Rss Feed