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2013-05-30 10:30 PM
in reply to: stevebradley

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Went out today for a quick 2nd OWS. The lake was a nice 64F/18C and flat calm. Swam just over 1100m in 23:09.I was particularly pleased to find I was able to swim a decently straight line with minimal siting. After the swim we were going to go for a short 1.5hr ride but the weather turned as we drove home so instead we went to Okanagan Lake and measured the water temp there. It was 58F/16C. Not a lot cooler than where we swam just 36km apart but those few degrees sure made the water a whole lot less comfortable.

Steve - I had forgotten about keeping a stride count and trying to get up to a 90 count. I'll start paying attention to it again and I'll also try running hard intervals as well. I was running intervals and counting strides through the winter when I mainly ran on a treadmill but since I've been outdoors I've gotten away from them so I'll start including them again.

I'm going back to the lake tomorrow for another swim and then after a short break I'll do another run.




2013-05-31 8:47 AM
in reply to: stevebradley

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

Originally posted by stevebradley MATT - You're probably gdetting great advice elsewhere, But in case none of your new peeps has ever done Timberman --- let's talk! I've done it three times, I think, plus ridden the bike course independently a few times. AWESOME event, and notable even more for being my very first half-iron. That was back in '01, which also happened to be the first year for the race itself. Quick comments: Grgeous swim, one of the nicest out there. I guess wind/chop could be a factor, but it never was for me and I don't think historically it has had much effect on the race. Bike is a trip, with the middle 30 miles being fairly docile (if the wind isn't out of the west!). There are some steep (as it were) challenges on the bike, and I will get to a map of the course and tell you where they are located. One in particular is gnarly and then some, but there a few other spots that are noteworthy. It would be well worth the effort to get there once to ride the full course, and once again to do the part from the start to where it hits 108, and then back again. REALLY worth it!! as for the run, two rolling out-and-backs, with only one semi-challenging part each out and each back. It would be good to do one of the out-and-backs as part of a training day there!! Huge congrats on the 5km -- to yuou and the rest of your clan. good grief, fine, fine, super-fine days all around!!!

Hi Steve, Thanks for the info on Timberman!  I would definitely like to talk it over (I'll PM you), as I haven't talked with anyone that's actually done it (just read a ton of RRs).

You can see where the hills are on the race site elevation maps - looks like one cranker on the way out, and then the backside of that is the cranker on the way back. I might have to set up a day to hit the courses (half the bike, or so - so I get the hill from both directions - and then a loop of the run), as I do know a couple folks from here that are doing it and might want to go.  Always tough to get a "kitchen pass" for a full weekend day away, especially as I'm dragging them all over New England for racing this summer anyway!  Laughing

In looking at it, there's a bit over 2,000' of climb over the course.  There's a hill loop I do here that is killer and is about 2,500' over ~40 miles.  I'm guessing that it's going to be tough running after the bike, as that's a lot of hill to NOT attack.  Do you just spin up a big hill, or do you push just a leeeeetle harder?  Not sure, as all I've done is two sprints last year.  Will get some feedback from a race this weekend (just decided to do it, as this is a "rest and test" week for me) that is between a sprint and an Oly and has a couple hills, and will definitely get more of a sense after doing the VT Trifest Oly on June 30th.  BUT, it'd be great to know how you approach hills...

As for training, I've been doing a bunch of OWS's at Walden and just LOVE the pond vs. the pool.  Yesterday did 2,000yds at a very doable effort and swam ~1:28/100 for the distance.  This was with a wetsuit.  So, is swimming with the wetsuit ruining my form (as it's a crutch)?  Do any of you do OWSs without?  

I'd like to switch ALL of my swims to the pond, as it's soooooo much nicer (and actually closer) than the pool, but I'm concerned about not doing the interval and form work that the pool is so good for.  Thoughts?

OK - have a great weekend all.  Will report back on tomorrow's 5k (which I am going to try to NOT PR, although that's tough) and the tri on Sunday.

As an aside, the HM that I'd mentioned a few months ago was last Sunday (Boston's Run to Remember) and I decided to be a pace bunny for Kim as she went for her PR.  She crushed it (ran a 1:49), set 11 PR's - including her fastest mile EVER… at mile 12-13!! (a 6:46 after running hard - harder than her target, for sure - for 12 miles).  Was an awesome venue, special day, and great outcome (not least cuz grammy watched the kids and we went in and stayed in town Saturday night!!).

That is all (one of my usual small posts).  

Matt

2013-05-31 8:52 AM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

Originally posted by wenceslasz Went out today for a quick 2nd OWS. The lake was a nice 64F/18C and flat calm. Swam just over 1100m in 23:09.I was particularly pleased to find I was able to swim a decently straight line with minimal siting. After the swim we were going to go for a short 1.5hr ride but the weather turned as we drove home so instead we went to Okanagan Lake and measured the water temp there. It was 58F/16C. Not a lot cooler than where we swam just 36km apart but those few degrees sure made the water a whole lot less comfortable. Steve - I had forgotten about keeping a stride count and trying to get up to a 90 count. I'll start paying attention to it again and I'll also try running hard intervals as well. I was running intervals and counting strides through the winter when I mainly ran on a treadmill but since I've been outdoors I've gotten away from them so I'll start including them again. I'm going back to the lake tomorrow for another swim and then after a short break I'll do another run.

Hi George,

Congrats on the swim!  Swimming 1100 in a straight line is something a LOT of people (ahem… like me, perhaps??) have to sight a lot to do, and it's a lot faster than swimming fast for 1,500 in a serpentine pattern to cover the 1,100!

As for stride count, and forgive me if we've had this conversation before, if you're using a Garmin device on the run, I'd recommend a cadence "pod" for your shoe.  Kim and I each have one (bought refurbished for like $20, and it just pops onto your laces) and have found them VERY useful for tracking cadence and working on turnover.  We've both gone from mid-80's to low-to-high-90's depending on effort level, to the point that I can dial in a higher cadence by feel even for a slow run (and it has DEFINITELY helped with the transition to running in Newtons).

Just a thought, and something that we've found helpful (and cheap, if you already have a Garmin - if not, I remember Nike having something similar, but am not sure).

Good luck!

Best,

Matt

2013-06-02 10:26 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
I guess it had to happen. I went out Friday afternoon for a long-ish run. As soon as I started running I knew I wasn't in for a good run. I just felt slow - the old "ponderous" we had discussed before. I kept running and walked whenever I felt I couldn't go on. My goal was to run 2hrs and finish 16km/10.13mi.

After swimming in the morning I drank a Gatorade and I wondered if that had something to do with my sluggish feeling. I did manage to keep going albeit at a slower pace than I wanted and walked more than I wanted but I finished the 16km in 2:13:20.

Then yesterday I went for a long-ish bike ride with some friends (4 of us) and a Sherpa/SAG wagon to carry drinks and snacks. We rode west up Apex Mtn (local ski hill) then south to connect with the highway (and part of the IMCanada route) then up more to the summit of Yellow Lake then East - ALL downhill to Okanagan Falls and then north back to Penticton. (not sure why I include all the local detail).

Frustratingly, I was slowest and held everyone else up. On the positive side I was able to do all the climbing and never had to stop except as planned. In the end I rode 80.7km in 4:11:xx at 19.2kph/11.93mph so slow! We climbed 1261m/4137'. This is the exact same average pace as I rode last June - so no improvement in a year. I find that very frustrating. To compensate I'm planning a 5hr ride from here to Osoyoos (again on the IMCanada route) approx. 120km return. This is a considerably flatter route with lots of smaller hills to keep it interesting.

Just needed to rant a bit. Just a nice easy swim tomorrow.


Matt - A cadence "pod" is a great idea. I had heard of them before but just never thought of getting one. I'll start looking for one PDQ.
2013-06-02 11:07 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

MATT -

I really shouldn't do this without looking at a map.........but I will anyway! That makes it all memory, which for me ain't quite what it used to be. So, I will do this fast for now, and then check for accuracy later.

Route 107 is connected to Route 108 by something called Leavitt Road. It takes maybe 5-8 minutes to get across Leavitt on the way out, but slightly longer coming back. So, here's hint #1:
ON THE RETURN, you'll do about a km downhill (not steep) before taking a right onto Leavitt. The trick is that as soon as the turn is made, Leavitt starts to climb -- which means you have to climb, too. So, it is more or less imperative that as you approach that right turn, you have to get into your small ring up front, and be prepared to shift to the 21 if you have a 23 as your biggest cog in back, or go to the 23 if you are in a 25-max cogset. You can probably do the first bit in the saddle, but be prepared to get out of the saddle as soon as you can; you probably won't want to srtay there for long, though, as Leavitt continues its serpentine-ish climb for a few hundred meters. The out-of-saddle experience should just help gfive you some oomph as you hit the middle of the climb, but if you just want to spin those small circles from the comfort of your rump on the saddle --- that works too! But if you forget to get into the small ring until after you have made the turn, it will sap momentum in a heartbeat.

Rewinding an hour or so, here is Hint #2:
The final km of 107 before the turn onto Leavitt is what RD Keith Jordan calls the "Mahsh Hill Monstuh" -- and it is a monster. IT is just a relentless climb that begins with a couple of "false peaks" before beginning the final assault to the top. There is no way for the average mortal to do this with impunity, and my best advice is to get in your easiest gearing and focus on spinning small circles -- especially once those false peaks are done. So, this is ON THE WAY OUT, and the good news is that once you are to Leavitt Road, the next 30 km are pretty nice. 108 is virtually flats and minimalistic rollers both out and back, and the shoulder is ample, and so long as the winds are kindly, it is a real respite from what you went through to get there --- and waht you will face as you hit some of those hills on the return, after you are off 107 and on to............11, is it? (This I really need to check!)

Again, pre-riding the course is HIGHLY recommended, and if time is short you could do from the start to as far as the first mile km of 108, which will get you up the gradual hill that you will be coming down before the Hint #1 right turn onto Leavitt.

Final hint is to know which hill is the last one heading back to transition, as the downhill part of it is a no-passing zone. So, if you have a chance to pass a few folks before that final no-passing descent, by all means do so! Some good speed can be garnered on that descent, and it is areally frustrating if you are feeling frisky ----- and there is a very slow/tentative rider in front of you. Grrr!

That's it from now, except for -- I hear you about maybe needing the pool for intervals and form work. My take on that is that form work is always useful............except maybe in race season! I mean, it is generally just too nice to be in a stupid pool, and historically I don't hit the pool from late May until mid October. Literally!

As for intervals, for me they are only useful if I actually plan to benefit from speed efforts in a race --- and that never ends up happening. Well, maybe in a sprint or two, or a super-sprint, but what I'm really doing there is just accelerating a bit -- nothing too fancy at all. I do that until I feel taxed, or lazy, and then I dial it back to steadysteadysteady. I just see a real difference about how I exploit race-day speed bursts on the bike (a lot) or the run (on a good day, quite a bit), and how futile those efforts are for the swim.

That said, I would advocate palying with speed on the swim in a sprint and maybe an oly, but unless you are a gifted swimmer, doing the 1.2 miles of a half-iron is just about keeping your form together and being steady at it in the process. And this leads to a further thought about Timberman, which is that the hills start early on for the bike, so it is wise to limit how much you kick during the swim. This is an argument, in fact, for swimming A LOT in open water, in your wetsuit, and getting used to minimizing your kick. I rally think that a fair bit of my success on the bike is due to coming out of the water with very well-rested legs, as I kick very, very little when I am in my wetsuit. My kick is not very good anyhow -- so why beat a dead horse (and my legs) my trying to get action that just isn't there? Eh?

GO BRUINS!!!!
GO RED SOX!!!


2013-06-03 4:04 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
GEORGE -

That's a very good pace for 1100, something that would get you in spitting distance of 30 minutes for an oly-distance swim. Righteous!

The water in the Rideau River was 68 on Friday and 70 yesterday -- ideal, to be sure. On May 18 it was 64, I think it was, which means that it is taking longer to get comfy than last year. But either way, both years have been better than any time previously, where it was 50/50 to be at 65 by June 1. I think it was in '10 that I didn't get in until about June 12! As I have said before, climate change may be hell on the polar bears who are desperate for a decent chunk of ice to hang out on between dives, but it's working well for me as a n OWS fanatic.

It is also telling that the last 2-3 years have featured so many races that had traditionally wetsuit-legal swims become ones in which wetsuits weren't allowed. I mean, a LOT of them. The people who downplay or outright deny the existence of climate change obvioulsy aren't triathletes!


2013-06-03 4:05 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

GEARGE again -

Ah-ha! I just saw your second post, the one from yesterday, and I will respond to that later on.
2013-06-03 10:30 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

George again -

That's a coupla tought days, so i'm glad you're on for just a small swim tomorrow.

You might be right about "no improvement in a year", but jeez -- did you do a swim and THEN a whopping 16km in 2:13:20 the day before? I don't THINK so! So, don't get discouraged about what happened on that ride, as for any of us that would be a tough end to two hard days --- swim and 16km run on day one, and 80km with big elevation on day two. Yikes!

What might've been far fairer to yourself is to have replicated the week leading up to last year's same-course ride. Had you done that...........well, my guess is that you would've easily come in at sub-four. What do you think?

A second thought here is that those longer efforts will require more conscientious fueling than a Gatorade post-swim, before the long run. A better and more comprehensive nutritional profile might've helped the run quite a bit, byut maybe more importantly --- did you pile on the protein on Friday aftr the run, the day before that long ride? If not, I think you should have, as 16km of running will demand pretty serious replenishing. Can you remember what all you consumed between the end of the run and the start of the bike ---- as well as what you took on during the ride? And for that matter, how well did you eat after the ride?

You have now pretty much fully entered the Endurance Zone, and for as long as you hang out there you will need to have a more refined nutritional action plan. Hav eyou made any changes in that direction so far?

Finally, (it's about 11:30 here, and so bedtime is nigh), before the Osoyoos ride, take a couple of days off from running or cycling -- just to test if that allows you to feel fairly fresh. I'm saying that it will, so how's that for a word to the wise?
2013-06-05 7:04 AM
in reply to: stevebradley

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

Steve - you are one of the true gems here on BT - GREAT info!!  Many thanks.

I am going to try to get a few of the folks from around here that are doing the race to do a big day up there in July.  Take a Saturday and drive up early, ride most (or all) of the course and then do perhaps ~6 miles off the bike on the hillier part of the run course.  Having never done a HIM, this is a somewhat daunting prospect - but I'm super excited about it.  Too much so, I think, as it's creeping into my consciousness as my "A" race - and relegating my Oly's to B+ (June 30) and A- (July 21) status.  I'll still taper for at least the week prior to the 21st, and the 30th is at the end of a "rest and test" week, but I'm definitely going to alter some of my training to include longer and slightly less intense efforts than if I were just doing the Oly's.

I will definitely pay attention to the Hints below as I pre-ride the course, and will pay attention to the gearing (might re-ride those spots a couple times!).

I also did my first tri of the year this past weekend (RR link is here: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/RaceLog/races-view-container.asp?...   I don't know how to make the links active here, unfortunately).  It was a bit longer than a standard sprint, so a good gauge of fitness for an Oly, methinks.  I did a 5k the day prior (whole family did great, which was fun - Kim and I got AG podiums, our oldest was 2nd OA in the mile and our youngest set a mile PR) and it was hot… and a little hilly… and it was my first race on the tri bike… and there were locusts, and floods, and fire from the sky… and… and… EXCUSES EVERYWHERE!  Wink

Kidding, although my run was about 30 seconds/mile slower than I'd hoped.  I'm thinking I need to work a bit more on the bike fitness for the run, but was really happy with my paces and results, as my run is now about even with the s/b portions (unlike last Fall where my run was slower, proportionally).  Wish they were all faster!  I was 15 OA, which was super for me, and 7th in my AG - which was just a bit boggling.  I came across the line faster than I ever had… and see a bunch of middle aged dudes hanging out and chatting.  Surprised  I was shocked at how strong the 45-49 AG is, but now I know what I "should" be able to achieve!  Back to training, and hard, now.  Laughing

Hope you're all getting along well with the training and racing!

Steve, thanks again.  George, keep after it (great progress)

Best,

Matt

 

Go Bruins and Sox!

2013-06-05 9:11 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

MATT -

Another hint is to book a motel early -- as in maybe right now! As you know accoms around Lake Winn can be pricey, which is why I stayed each of my times there in Loudon, at the Red Roof Inn. Turns out ot is about 1/4 mile from the turnaround on the bike, which seemed somehow kind of sweet. The truest benefit (aside from relative cost), though, is that going back and forth on it a couple of times (packet pick-up, pre-race festivities, race morning itself) just helps cement in some of the features of that end of the bike course, as in all of it that takes place on 108. You can also just reverse-drive the whole course as a way to get to race site and wherever related events are happening.......although using Leavitt Road and 107 aren't the quickestt way from point-to-point!

That would be great if you could get a few/bunch of like-minded people to devote a day there. In my own infinite unwisdom, I pre-worouted the course three times over the years......and each of those was a down-and-back-in-one-day affair. That is, i left home at about 5 a.m., drove the 7.5 hours there, did what I set out to do for a few hours, and then drove home. In each case it was the bike course, and some sampling of the water, anyhow, as the big rectangular course was not laid out, of course. I think the last two times i also ran a full loop of the run course, and the first year of the race, when the run was different and one single loop (I think? That was 12 years ago, and memory isn't serving 100% right now!), I somehow cut corners to not do the whole thing.

ANYHOW, you're lucky you're close and that you might have some friendly company to keep you happy.. FWIW, however, my last time there I went down just to accompany one the people in one of my mentor groups, and one of her friends, both of whom were HIMing for the first time.

And as for HIMing for the first time............
Nothing wrong at all it thinking about making it an "A" race. Not only is the spread on those olys wide enough to give them the benefits of B+ and A-, but for someone with a decent amount of experience, making their first half-iron "A" priority has a lot of merit. Maybe the biggest benefit of this is that, at anything less than very dedictaed training, the long day that is already part of a half-iron will just become that much longer. So if you approach your training as behooves (befits?) a half-iron, the chances radically increase that you will get off the course asap --- highly desirable when you've been slogging away for five-plus hours!!!!!!!

So, with the B+ on June 30 and the A- on July 21, that gives ample time to build for the former and then carry on that level of training right into the A- one three weeks later. Then you taper for a few days, and begin your assault on Timberman. If you are feeling frisky and healthy coming out of B+, you might well want to add soem miles to a couple of the runs before A-, thus giving you a jump on the run training for Timberman (which I'm assuming is about three weeks after A-. Make sense?

I'm a big advocate of people respecting those longer distances, which includes (a) not doing them as bucket-list things, one-and-out, right at the outset of their tri "careers", and (b) dedicating pretty serious training to them. A big part of both of those is to maximize the positives of the experience and minimize the odds of getting badly injured during the race itself, so I try to get on my high-horse too much about it!

Anyhow, I feel very confident that you can do the training for T-man, and as I said above, you're hardly a newbie at triathlon -- and you definitely won't be after B+ and A-!!!

Finally, I had trouble accessing your race comments, so I will try again later. My machine hear is balky today, so it's likely a problem at this end. but I will say that, given the effort you put into that mcmanusclan-dominated 5km THE DAY BEFORE, it is no surprise that you were missing part of your running chops at the tri. While that may be a small disa[ppointment now..................at some point you will ebnefit from having down back-to-back races in one weekend. There WILL be a weekend in which you do something similar, and thrive at both races. Trust me!

BRUINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(and RED SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
2013-06-05 11:36 PM
in reply to: stevebradley

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Originally posted by stevebradley


George again -

That's a coupla tought days, so i'm glad you're on for just a small swim tomorrow.

You might be right about "no improvement in a year", but jeez -- did you do a swim and THEN a whopping 16km in 2:13:20 the day before? I don't THINK so! So, don't get discouraged about what happened on that ride, as for any of us that would be a tough end to two hard days --- swim and 16km run on day one, and 80km with big elevation on day two. Yikes!

What might've been far fairer to yourself is to have replicated the week leading up to last year's same-course ride. Had you done that...........well, my guess is that you would've easily come in at sub-four. What do you think?

A second thought here is that those longer efforts will require more conscientious fueling than a Gatorade post-swim, before the long run. A better and more comprehensive nutritional profile might've helped the run quite a bit, byut maybe more importantly --- did you pile on the protein on Friday aftr the run, the day before that long ride? If not, I think you should have, as 16km of running will demand pretty serious replenishing. Can you remember what all you consumed between the end of the run and the start of the bike ---- as well as what you took on during the ride? And for that matter, how well did you eat after the ride?

You have now pretty much fully entered the Endurance Zone, and for as long as you hang out there you will need to have a more refined nutritional action plan. Hav eyou made any changes in that direction so far?

Finally, (it's about 11:30 here, and so bedtime is nigh), before the Osoyoos ride, take a couple of days off from running or cycling -- just to test if that allows you to feel fairly fresh. I'm saying that it will, so how's that for a word to the wise?


First - Let me ask a question about chains and rings. I've got about 4500km/2796mi on my bike and I noticed my front rings are showing wear. I was wondering if I should be getting them replaced soon. My concern is spurred by the fact my brother-in-law was out riding on Monday and his chain broke. I had the bike tuned up in March and they didn't mention the chain or rings needing to be replaced but I'm coming in to racing time and the last thing I want is to lose a chain in the middle of a race.

Steve - I looked back at my last years race and in the preceding week I did only swim 1hr on each of Mon/Wed/Fri so I was a bit better rested then. And, I didn't have carbopro then either. The Gatorade post swimming was unplanned. I had made up my carbopro and then left it at home in the fridge. After the swim I drove home and ate a proper (but not heavy) meal then went off for the run. After the run I did eat some good protein and I even enjoyed some cold "beer soup" with lots of vitamins (just one...really). I was pretty good nutrition/hydration wise on the bike. Lots of water with carbopro and Nuun plus bananas, clif bars and one ginger mound cookie. When I got back home the ladies I rode with gave me some pretzels with peanut butter stuffed inside and I had a bottle of Recoverite (by Hammer) and a salmon sandwich. I haven't tried Fig Newtons yet but I want to. I really can't remember what I ate for dinner Saturday.

In terms of eating plan I have been a lot more conscientious about eating before, during and after workouts. I love proteins and fruits. I try to eat more complex carbs. I haven't taken the leap to gels yet but I find the carbopro with nuun, Honey stinger waffles and bananas seems to work well during workouts. Of greatest concern I do make an effort to have protein as soon as possible after the end of an exercise and I also like Recoverite as well.

The Osoyoos ride is planned for Saturday and I've shortened it a bit so it should be about 90km. Much easier than last weeks climbing ride.


Yesterday, I went out with a friend and we biked the Oliver Olympic bike route then did a slow transition and did a 10K run. Unfortunately we went a bit late so we caught some intense heat (pushing 40C) on the run. The ride was about as flat a route as we can get in this area - only one short steep hill and otherwise just lots of rollers so it was a fast fun ride and made up for my slow ride. The run was hard because of the heat and it really sucked the energy right out of me. I managed to finish but a lot slower than I wanted.

Today I did another OWS. Just an easy 2000m. I didn't have a timer to keep track of timing but it felt pretty fast. At least the shoreline seemed to be moving by fairly quickly. Lots of good sized fish jumping all around.

Matt - Thanks for the encouragement.


2013-06-07 1:18 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Not sure what happened, but looks like there's been a bunch of activity here and I haven't gotten any e-mail notifications. Must have to do with the site redesign. Will have to see how far behind I am.

Just dropped in to make sure GEORGE saw this article on Slowtwitch: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Interview/Accidental_triathlete_Axel_Merc...

And also to let you TWITCHIES know how it's been going being online coached by Mike Ricci. That man is not messing around. Anything that is not getting me toward my goal is out. I needed help with this mindset, so I'm happy with how it's going (even if my legs currently are not). It still baffles me that pedaling along on my bike for an hour or two in HR Zone 1-2 has any benefit. I guess that's what eveyone says about most people's easy workouts being too hard. I don't even want to think about the hard workouts except to say that there is no hiding from the HR monitor.

I'm also surprised at how well the prescribed swim workouts have been whipping me into shape and dropping my times. They seem tame and short compared to the workouts my Masters team does. I've seen 1:19 for 100M on a couple of intervals without killing myself and was pretty pleased.

One last training thing that's cool:
Last year's LT run test: 175 bpm at 7:56 avg pace on a slightly downhill course.
This year's LT run test: 170 bpm at 7:29 avg pace on an out-and-back course.
Progress!

Racing-wise, I took 2nd in my AG at a local sprint: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
Will be heading to Ohio on Sunday to race The West Branch "Battle at the Branch" olympic. Looking forward to it.

Hope everyone is well!
2013-06-07 1:58 PM
in reply to: davekeith

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

Dave - congrats on the progress and, more, on the AG podium!  Very impressive, especially after my run in with the speedsters in the same bracket.  Nicely done!

Steve - thanks for the additional thoughts.  I have been struggling a bit in figuring out just how to structure the training (never mind the pacing!).  While you're kind to say that I'm basically not a noob, I've only done 3 tri's - all sprints - in the last year, and this will be my first full season of racing since I was... well, let's just say I had a full head of hair then and now approximate more of a cue ball...  Smile

Here's what I'm thinking.  I'm using Friel's "Your Best Tri" book.  Basically, just finished the Build 1 section with 3 weeks (4, really) of build and a week of "rest and test," the tests being the 5k and tri last weekend.  I'll now do 3 weeks of Build 2, with the "rest and test" week ending in the VT Oly (a "B" race, as there's no Peak/Taper - just a lighter than normal week).

I HAD been planning to then do a 2 week peak and one week taper leading in to the July 21 Oly, with a sprint on the 14th - then just lollygagging about Nantucket for a week and looking at the Fall schedule later.  BUT, with Tman 4 weeks out from the Oly, I'm trying to tweak as follows:

Build 2 as planned, with Oly on June 30 after a rest week.  Then over the 21 days prior to Nantucket Oly, doing something like one-plus week of build, a bit less than one week of peak (and maybe even a bit heavier on volume than the second week of the peak as described by Friel - which basically gets more and more race-like in terms of pace, here for an Oly), then a taper week (I still want to do well in this Oly).

Then with 4 weeks to T-man, take a day or two as off/light after the race and get 2 weeks of HIM-specific workouts from Build 2, one week of peak (the second week of the 2 week peak as described by Friel) and one week of taper. 

I'm hoping that builds sufficient fitness but lets me hammer the Oly and comfortably finish the HIM (and maybe even race it a little - tough for me to not race if I have a number on my belt... which is something I have to look out for here, and makes understanding my HIM pace critical, but that's for another post, I suppose!).

For me, the Friel plan has been between 10.5 and 13.5 hours during the build weeks, with 6-7 hours on the "rest and test" weeks.  Pretty balanced plan, I think, with a nice mix of duration and intensity (although less intensity than I was doing for the run-specific HM and 10k blocks earlier this year - and I kinda miss the track!).  The peak weeks are 8-10 hours, and race week tapers are 5-7 plus the race.

OK, fair game for anyone (or at least the very few who are still reading after this massive post) - whaddya think?

Thanks!!
Matt

2013-06-07 6:20 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

RR fixed, i think.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=491421 

Enjoy, if so inclined!

Also, an additional question wrt Oly v HIM.

Thinking about changing my plan more to the HIM distances/paces, but am not sure if that will have a significantly negative effect on my Oly times, or if the extra volume (and a tad less intensity) will not have that much effect on my ability to move on an Oly.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!
Matt 

2013-06-07 10:14 PM
in reply to: davekeith

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Originally posted by davekeith

Not sure what happened, but looks like there's been a bunch of activity here and I haven't gotten any e-mail notifications. Must have to do with the site redesign. Will have to see how far behind I am.

Just dropped in to make sure GEORGE saw this article on Slowtwitch: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Interview/Accidental_triathlete_Axel_Merc...

And also to let you TWITCHIES know how it's been going being online coached by Mike Ricci. That man is not messing around. Anything that is not getting me toward my goal is out. I needed help with this mindset, so I'm happy with how it's going (even if my legs currently are not). It still baffles me that pedaling along on my bike for an hour or two in HR Zone 1-2 has any benefit. I guess that's what eveyone says about most people's easy workouts being too hard. I don't even want to think about the hard workouts except to say that there is no hiding from the HR monitor.

I'm also surprised at how well the prescribed swim workouts have been whipping me into shape and dropping my times. They seem tame and short compared to the workouts my Masters team does. I've seen 1:19 for 100M on a couple of intervals without killing myself and was pretty pleased.

One last training thing that's cool:
Last year's LT run test: 175 bpm at 7:56 avg pace on a slightly downhill course.
This year's LT run test: 170 bpm at 7:29 avg pace on an out-and-back course.
Progress!

Racing-wise, I took 2nd in my AG at a local sprint: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
Will be heading to Ohio on Sunday to race The West Branch "Battle at the Branch" olympic. Looking forward to it.

Hope everyone is well!


Thanks for the Slowtwitch article. I hadn't heard Axel participated in the OliverHIM. Not bad finishing fourth overall and then he plays down how hard he trained for it. I wonder if there is more to this story because in an email (to all registered GranFondo participants) Axel announced last week that Simon Whitfield is going to ride in the GranFondo. So we have a cyclist doing a HIM and a triathlete riding a GranFondo. Not that it will matter to me. Both fellows will be long gone before I even cross the start line.

Your training sounds hard but productive. Have fun at your Olympic this weekend.
2013-06-07 10:54 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Today I went out for an OWS. I wasn't thinking anything revolutionary just to log another nice swim but my swim buddy wanted to swim the length of the lake. So we started out going easy and staying together out in the middle of the lake and siting to a red canoe on the far shore.

It was really calm and just a nice temp for swimming (except for the fresh water sharks of course). We didn't time the swim to the far shore but on the return we did time the distance. On the return we decided to go at our own paces so I just started swimming. It felt quite neat out in the middle of the lake with the shoreline passing by quite quickly.

I really felt relaxed and comfortable in the water and when I reached the shore again I was amazed at how fast the swim went. When my buddy arrived approximately 2 minutes later his watch said we swam .785miles/1.26km in 26:30 so my time was under 25 minutes for a sub 2:00/100m and I'm quite sure I could go faster if I pushed a little. The total swim for the day was 1.57mi/2.53km in under an hour. I was also amazed that I could have swam further without any difficulty.


Question - Any suggestions on how I can get stronger in the run after getting off the bike? I find it really hard to get any kind of decent pace on the run after cycling. I think my post ride 5K is like 40 minutes. I've considered going easier on the bike but I'm not all that fast on the bike either.


2013-06-08 9:20 AM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

Originally posted by wenceslasz Today I went out for an OWS. I wasn't thinking anything revolutionary just to log another nice swim but my swim buddy wanted to swim the length of the lake. So we started out going easy and staying together out in the middle of the lake and siting to a red canoe on the far shore. It was really calm and just a nice temp for swimming (except for the fresh water sharks of course). We didn't time the swim to the far shore but on the return we did time the distance. On the return we decided to go at our own paces so I just started swimming. It felt quite neat out in the middle of the lake with the shoreline passing by quite quickly. I really felt relaxed and comfortable in the water and when I reached the shore again I was amazed at how fast the swim went. When my buddy arrived approximately 2 minutes later his watch said we swam .785miles/1.26km in 26:30 so my time was under 25 minutes for a sub 2:00/100m and I'm quite sure I could go faster if I pushed a little. The total swim for the day was 1.57mi/2.53km in under an hour. I was also amazed that I could have swam further without any difficulty. Question - Any suggestions on how I can get stronger in the run after getting off the bike? I find it really hard to get any kind of decent pace on the run after cycling. I think my post ride 5K is like 40 minutes. I've considered going easier on the bike but I'm not all that fast on the bike either.

Congrats on the swim - that's terrific!

As for running better off the bike, I suspect that biking more will help.  Better bike fitness = better ability to run at target pace off the bike (if the issue is not hitting a target pace that is something like your open time minus so many seconds per mile).  

The only way to either go faster on the bike (or, not go slower) and still hit your reasonable target on the run is to be stronger on the bike, I think.  I underlined the reasonable target bit as I think the run expectation should be a bit slower than your open times...

Others?  I'm just going by what my legs tell me, so there might be better "received wisdom" from the tri-tribe!

Matt

2013-06-09 6:27 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
2013-06-09 11:43 PM
in reply to: davekeith

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Originally posted by davekeith

The West Branch Battle at the Branch race report:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...


Nice race and report! 2:33:35 sounds good to me. Overall, it reads like you had a good time.

The pancakes sound like a really good idea for breakfast too.



Yesterday I had a bike issue near the end of my long ride and Axel Merckx was the only cyclist that at least asked if he could help me. I thought it was funny that I would see him just the day after I read the article you had shown me.
2013-06-10 12:24 AM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
I rode my long bike ride yesterday and it was a really good day for the ride. Quite hot by the time we finished but still enjoyable.

On the 1st 41.5km/25.79mi I averaged 28.6kph/17.77mph with a tailwind then turned around to ride and headed back into the wind. I averaged 24kph/14.9mph and then I rode another 1:15-ish to round out the ride to 4:30.

I was just coming to the end of the ride within a couple kilometres of where we had parked. I had just reached the bottom of a fast narrow downhill and I changed gears to go up a slight rise and my chain seized up with a bang. I managed to dismount safely and started to try and fix the chain but I couldn't budge it so I started walking (carrying the bike). I walked about 2 Km before a friend found me and rode back to his vehicle then picked me up.

I rode 4:20:33 of my planned 4:30 ride at a much more satisfactory (although still too slow) pace. I carried and consumed 4 bottles of water/carbopro/nuun and I ate a Clif bar, banana or waffle every hour (approx. 300 to 400+calories/hr). I felt really good in spite of the heat and felt I could've ridden longer without difficulty.

In the end my LBS only charged me $10 for labour to repair the chain and by some miracle there was no residual damage. I'll take the bike out for a test ride tomorrow.

Today we finally got to swim in Okanagan Lake. Just a fast short swim for fun.
2013-06-23 4:56 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL


2013-06-24 12:02 PM
in reply to: davekeith

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

Nice!  Just off the podium (bummer), but first on the swim - pretty sweet.  Congrats on a great race.

What's next?

 

Matt

2013-06-24 2:16 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Thanks MATT. I read your Lion RR, and meant to say - wow! nice job. I can't believe how many people were ahead of you with those times. 1:13 / 100 avg swim and 22+ MPH bike and 7:19 / mile run are nothing at which to be sneezed! I would have expected some podium placement out of those efforts.

Next race for which I am registered is my A race: the Pittsburgh Triathlon (olympic) at the end of July. Hoping to get into the low 2:20s which should be good for a top 10 AG vs. last year's 2:28. Given the big increase in training volume (and more scientific approach) it would seem doable, but my times at West Branch (2:33) and Dam Tri (2:39) were not encouraging.

Of course there are extenuating circumstances:

Number one is taper. Both races were done under the full duress of training. I've taken 3 days off and done 3 races in the last 5 weeks. Hoping the bounce from a proper taper will be huge. Not sure if there's a way to gauge how much it's likely to be?

Second is the course / conditions. West Branch swim (.99 miles) and bike (26 miles) courses were long. Dam Tri swim was long (1 mile), bike and run were a little short, but we had grueling heat and humidity, difficult running surface and little shade.
Pittsburgh is a short olympic course. Run is on a nice shady riverside trail.

Plus, I'm going to try to buckle down over the next couple of weeks.

As for other races, there is a relatively local sprint in a couple of weeks and an olympic in Ohio, but I think I've worn out my marital welcome with traveling and racing for the time being, so I'll probably lay low . . .
2013-07-01 7:19 AM
in reply to: davekeith

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL

RR up.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=493897   

Had a GREAT time at my first Oly. 

Dave, I'm sure the extenuating factors will all help for the next race - but isn't Pittsburg SUPER hilly?  Surprised  I guess not if it's all along the river.  Wink   Good luck!

 Matt

2013-07-02 9:11 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Matt - Great job on your race and on the race report. I particularly liked the bits about eating in the bathroom and pushing a car out of the mud. Congratulations on the podium.

As for the Pittsburgh Tri race course. The swim is flat (though you're swimming against the river current on the first leg of the Oly distance). The bike is an out and back (twice for Oly) on the northbound HOV lane. It's almost all uphill going out and all downhill coming back. I saw a lot of 12 MPH on the uphill and hit 40 MPH on the downhill in the first year I did the sprint. I averaged 20.4 MPH in the Oly last year, so I think it evens out. The run is a flat out and back along the river trail. Everyone complains about the course because it's boring and none of it shows off the city or incorporates the bridges like the marathon does, but it's safe (bike is closed to traffic) and consistent and close to home.
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