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Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? (Page 2)
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 2012-10-30 1:43 PM in reply to: #4474362 |
Pro  6011   Camp Hill, Pennsylvania |  Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run?Here's a guy who ran even splits in his first IM - IMLOU 2010. After passing 1,100 people on the bike. Josh Beck Edited by TriMyBest 2012-10-30 1:45 PM |
| 2012-10-30 1:47 PM in reply to: #4475371 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? I would assume just about anything is possible. You could always stroll the first half and run the second and set it up to accomplish it. |
| 2012-10-30 1:47 PM in reply to: #4475159 |
Master 5557  , California | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Experior - 2012-10-30 10:06 AM PinkPrincess - 2012-10-30 12:39 PM Experior - 2012-10-30 7:38 AM Left Brain - 2012-10-30 1:32 AM That's my goal as well. The accepted rule here seems to be that the marathon can't be run....especially for a first timer. I call bullchit. Like you, I don't want to walk. I have yet to walk in any race I've done. I've been slow as hell a time or two, but I haven't walked. My first IM, or at least the first IM I have signed up for is Tahoe......my goal is to not walk any portion of the marathon. I won't believe it can't be done with the right bike pacing. Almost nobody goes in wanting to walk, though a few people go in intending to walk. I don't say it is a 'rule' that the marathon cannot be run. It is, however, a fact that the vast majority of participants, and just about everybody who finishes in more than 12 hours, spends some significant portion of their time walking. Running the entire marathon is a laudable goal, and you should aim for it. I hope you succeed. The combination of fitness, conservatism, and luck required is pretty rare. Just wanted to speak up here. Michael really knows his stuff, so maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule, but IMLP was my first Ironman and first marathon of any sort and I ran the entire thing (except for aid stations, which was part of the plan), coming in at 16:02 or so. Of course, I'm a much better runner than swimmer or cyclist, so maybe that's why. (I made the bike cutoff by less than four minutes.) But no, even I didn't negative-split it. That's fantastic! But yes, I do believe that you are an outlier. All of the IM runs that I've done have been out-and-back runs (usually two loops, once it was four loops). So you get to see pretty much the whole field. There's an awful lot of walking going on. You see it on the live feeds from the races as well. And it isn't just the 14+ hour folks (pick your own meaningless time...) who are walking. I finished IMWI in around 11 hours this year and walked about 4 miles of the run in the middle. A friend of mine went sub-10 at IMWI last year and walked part of the way. IM pacing is just that hard. Plus other stuff happens. So kudos to you for pacing well and steering clear of the other stuff. A side note - walking isn't always a bad thing either. Burning your legs on an uphill if you're barely moving faster than a brisk walk ... maybe isn't worth it. Yeah I know there's a difference between strategic walk breaks and the death march. |
| 2012-10-30 1:54 PM in reply to: #4474362 |
Regular 233 NW | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Very possible! I have done it in my three IM's. It is my opinion that you will set the stage for the negative run split during the first 60 miles of the bike. |
| 2012-10-31 6:16 PM in reply to: #4475162 |
Expert 1168 Vancouver (not Canada) Washington (not D.C.) | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? JM2 - 2012-10-30 10:07 AM cbrave - 2012-10-30 10:28 AM What is your training volume and health leading up to this weekend? As others have said, it is very much possible, but you need to be ready and practiced for it. I think interesting question would be for you to put out your training and pace goals and we can spend the rest of the day guessing whether YOU can do it. Health is pretty good, expecting to show up Sat. loose, rested, and ready mentally. I practiced negative splitting on all my long runs, five of them......a 16, 2 @ 18, and 2 @ 21. I'd say the average pace for the first half of those was around 9:15ish and the pace on the second half was around 8:45ish, so I know that isn't such a big difference. Did long rides of 77, 85, 100, and 2 @ 112 (pace for all pretty much right at 19 mph). Ran 4-5 after each of them at 8:45 pace. My goal for the race has everything to do with the run. Yea, it appears negative split may be dreaming, but based on some of this feedback trying to get into position for a negative split may simply yield the ability to run the whole thing, which I'd be way stoked about. Thanks for the info. Looks like your run is predictable. Like others have said, it will all be set up by how your bike goes. What is your plan for pacing on the bike? I think you could negative split but you will need to be ontop of your pacing, hydration and nuturtion to pull it off. I love that you are working on a plan and doing the work both in training and in race strategy to meet your goals. I've felt like I failed becuase I ended up walking when I told myself that I wouldn't and kind of got in a negative funk during a race. Just focus on doing the best you can given what race day throws at you. |
| 2012-11-05 8:36 AM in reply to: #4474362 |
| Member 185 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Well, thought I'd report back on this...................ran the whole thing (not aid stations), missed even split by approx. 5 minutes. Swim/bike RPE & pacing were exactly what I felt like I needed, got off the bike at almost exactly 8 hrs. into the race then I tried to find something in the first few miles in the 10:00 - 10:30 range that I felt like I could hold, ended up bouncing around between about 10:30 & 10:45. I walked just about every aid station, some I just slowed down enough to grab some water to pour over my head, and some I actually had to stop for :10 or so while I dumped a couple cups of ice in my water bottle. Stomach was killing me most of the way, so all I could do was take sips of water until about mile 17 when I started drinking some coke, which seemed to help. I never really thought much actually during the run about negative/even split, I truly focused on one mile at a time, and sometimes even less than that. If I was at 17.3, I might tell myself to just keep going until 17.6, because then I'd have "well less" than .5 until I was at 18. Then at 18.7 I might think "come on man, just keep going for another .3, then you can have some more ice, just run to the ice, that is all you have to do, just run to the ice". There was something that happened to me at about mile 20-21 or so, I don't know why, but I stopped thinking in those small chunks, now I was thinking about how I had less than a 10K to go, then I had less than 5 mi., then a 5K......I was getting pumped, I started thinking about the finish line, seeing my wife/kids, what I was about to accomplish, etc. So after accounting for walking the aid stations/special needs stop my total run was 4:40:03, which works out to a 10:41 pace, but right around 2:17 for the first half and about 2:22 for the second half. I passed 555 people on the run, which yea, was kind of fun :-) That was my first ironman, but outside of some nutrition modification, (wanted to throw up the whole run), I'm not sure I would have done anything different pacing/RPE wise because I don't think missing an even split by 5 minutes is all that much.........not enough anyway for me to think some major changes would have been warranted. When I was swimming/biking I was constantly thinking about the run, when people were passing me on the bike I thought about the run, it sounds sadistic but I couldn't wait to get to the run to see what I could do with it. Sorry for the long post, this has almost turned into a race report. But in summary I learned #1) yes, you can absolutely run the whole thing #2) negative/even splits are well within the realm of possibility if you want to make that a priority. |
| 2012-11-05 9:59 AM in reply to: #4483817 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? JM2 - 2012-11-05 8:36 AM Well, thought I'd report back on this...................ran the whole thing (not aid stations), missed even split by approx. 5 minutes. Swim/bike RPE & pacing were exactly what I felt like I needed, got off the bike at almost exactly 8 hrs. into the race then I tried to find something in the first few miles in the 10:00 - 10:30 range that I felt like I could hold, ended up bouncing around between about 10:30 & 10:45. I walked just about every aid station, some I just slowed down enough to grab some water to pour over my head, and some I actually had to stop for :10 or so while I dumped a couple cups of ice in my water bottle. Stomach was killing me most of the way, so all I could do was take sips of water until about mile 17 when I started drinking some coke, which seemed to help. I never really thought much actually during the run about negative/even split, I truly focused on one mile at a time, and sometimes even less than that. If I was at 17.3, I might tell myself to just keep going until 17.6, because then I'd have "well less" than .5 until I was at 18. Then at 18.7 I might think "come on man, just keep going for another .3, then you can have some more ice, just run to the ice, that is all you have to do, just run to the ice". There was something that happened to me at about mile 20-21 or so, I don't know why, but I stopped thinking in those small chunks, now I was thinking about how I had less than a 10K to go, then I had less than 5 mi., then a 5K......I was getting pumped, I started thinking about the finish line, seeing my wife/kids, what I was about to accomplish, etc. So after accounting for walking the aid stations/special needs stop my total run was 4:40:03, which works out to a 10:41 pace, but right around 2:17 for the first half and about 2:22 for the second half. I passed 555 people on the run, which yea, was kind of fun :-) That was my first ironman, but outside of some nutrition modification, (wanted to throw up the whole run), I'm not sure I would have done anything different pacing/RPE wise because I don't think missing an even split by 5 minutes is all that much.........not enough anyway for me to think some major changes would have been warranted. When I was swimming/biking I was constantly thinking about the run, when people were passing me on the bike I thought about the run, it sounds sadistic but I couldn't wait to get to the run to see what I could do with it. Sorry for the long post, this has almost turned into a race report. But in summary I learned #1) yes, you can absolutely run the whole thing #2) negative/even splits are well within the realm of possibility if you want to make that a priority. Thanks for reporting back......sounds like some run suffering, good job! It's always fun (not) when you have to start making deals with yourself for another few yards. The bolded part always amazes me when I read IM reports. Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? |
| 2012-11-05 10:12 AM in reply to: #4484050 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Left Brain - 2012-11-05 11:59 AM The bolded part always amazes me when I read IM reports. Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? I'm just guessing but I think it depends on where you are in the field when you get off the bike. Myself my IM marathon time was 4:50 so not too far off the OP but I was passed by ~400 people. I'm guessing that the difference was I was off the bike at the 6:50 mark. |
| 2012-11-05 10:56 AM in reply to: #4484079 |
| Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Congrats on what sounds like a great race. |
| 2012-11-05 11:26 AM in reply to: #4474362 |
Expert 1168 Vancouver (not Canada) Washington (not D.C.) | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Thanks for posting your results. Great job keeping going. So, now that "You are an Ironman" what would you say to someone that asked about negative splitting their IM run? |
| 2012-11-05 4:00 PM in reply to: #4484050 |
| Member 185 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Left Brain - 2012-11-05 9:59 AM JM2 - 2012-11-05 8:36 AM Well, thought I'd report back on this...................ran the whole thing (not aid stations), missed even split by approx. 5 minutes. Swim/bike RPE & pacing were exactly what I felt like I needed, got off the bike at almost exactly 8 hrs. into the race then I tried to find something in the first few miles in the 10:00 - 10:30 range that I felt like I could hold, ended up bouncing around between about 10:30 & 10:45. I walked just about every aid station, some I just slowed down enough to grab some water to pour over my head, and some I actually had to stop for :10 or so while I dumped a couple cups of ice in my water bottle. Stomach was killing me most of the way, so all I could do was take sips of water until about mile 17 when I started drinking some coke, which seemed to help. I never really thought much actually during the run about negative/even split, I truly focused on one mile at a time, and sometimes even less than that. If I was at 17.3, I might tell myself to just keep going until 17.6, because then I'd have "well less" than .5 until I was at 18. Then at 18.7 I might think "come on man, just keep going for another .3, then you can have some more ice, just run to the ice, that is all you have to do, just run to the ice". There was something that happened to me at about mile 20-21 or so, I don't know why, but I stopped thinking in those small chunks, now I was thinking about how I had less than a 10K to go, then I had less than 5 mi., then a 5K......I was getting pumped, I started thinking about the finish line, seeing my wife/kids, what I was about to accomplish, etc. So after accounting for walking the aid stations/special needs stop my total run was 4:40:03, which works out to a 10:41 pace, but right around 2:17 for the first half and about 2:22 for the second half. I passed 555 people on the run, which yea, was kind of fun :-) That was my first ironman, but outside of some nutrition modification, (wanted to throw up the whole run), I'm not sure I would have done anything different pacing/RPE wise because I don't think missing an even split by 5 minutes is all that much.........not enough anyway for me to think some major changes would have been warranted. When I was swimming/biking I was constantly thinking about the run, when people were passing me on the bike I thought about the run, it sounds sadistic but I couldn't wait to get to the run to see what I could do with it. Sorry for the long post, this has almost turned into a race report. But in summary I learned #1) yes, you can absolutely run the whole thing #2) negative/even splits are well within the realm of possibility if you want to make that a priority. Thanks for reporting back......sounds like some run suffering, good job! It's always fun (not) when you have to start making deals with yourself for another few yards. The bolded part always amazes me when I read IM reports. Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? Yea, definitely alot of walking going on. And yea, it's crazy to pass that many people at that slow of a pace. However, I had a fairly slow bike split, 6:29, avg. speed was 17.27. For some perspective, my last two long training rides of 100+ were at 19 mph and my last two long runs of 18 mi. and 21 mi. were both right under a 9:00/mi. Stand alone marathon in Feb. was 3:53. Now, I kind of need to throw that marathon out because it was awesome running weather, about 25 degrees at the start and maybe it got up to 33-35 by the time I was finished. It was hot on Sat., low to mid 80s at the start of the run. |
| 2012-11-05 4:10 PM in reply to: #4484283 |
| Member 185 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? cbrave - 2012-11-05 11:26 AM Thanks for posting your results. Great job keeping going. So, now that "You are an Ironman" what would you say to someone that asked about negative splitting their IM run? Well, based on my limited experience I'd say that it is definitely doable but it has got to be the primary goal. Although missing it by approx. 5 minutes may seem like alot to some people, I don't think it's that much. The swim and bike have got to feel almost crazy easy and you've got to have the confidence that going at that low effort level will pay dividends later on. A guy in our tri club negative split his run Sat. by 19 min. I haven't talked to him so I don't know what was going on, but that seems like alot. I would have to think that most negative splits wouldn't be by that much. |
| 2012-11-05 4:13 PM in reply to: #4484209 |
| Member 185 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? tri808 - 2012-11-05 10:56 AM Congrats on what sounds like a great race. Thanks man, it was an amazing experience, I'll definitely do another one at some point. Running down that finishing chute was such a surreal experience, where disbelief/pain/joy/happiness/pride all came together at the same time. |
| 2012-11-05 6:03 PM in reply to: #4474362 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Great job Saturday Ironman! I would suggest a primary goal of negative splitting the run may not be best to meet the goal of having the fastest overall time. Most folks would want to have fastest overall time.
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| 2012-11-05 6:35 PM in reply to: #4474362 |
Extreme Veteran 607 Rochester, MN | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Late to the discussion but I came very close to a negative split at my 1st IM at Madison this year. By my calculations I did the 1st 13.2 miles in 2:02:24 for a 9:16.4 pace, the last 13 miles in 2:01:04 for a 9:18.8 pace. My overall pace was officially 9:17. I followed my plan of walking all but a couple of the early and last 2 aid stations. Walked about 1/4 of Observatory Hill both loops, roughly .10 mile. I wasn't trying to negative split rather just run within myself at an effort I could maintain the whole run. I used HR as my guide and was conservative. Pre-race I was thinking 9:50 to 10:00 pace. In hindsight, I could have gone a little harder earlier at the end, maybe the last 4-5 miles instead of just the last 1.5 miles. I had a 5:49:30 bike split and pre-race I was looking at 6:00. Congrats on a good race and a nice consistent run. You are an IRONMAN!!
Edited by mjewen 2012-11-05 6:35 PM |
| 2012-11-05 7:50 PM in reply to: #4485063 |
| Member 185 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? KathyG - 2012-11-05 6:03 PM Great job Saturday Ironman! I would suggest a primary goal of negative splitting the run may not be best to meet the goal of having the fastest overall time. Most folks would want to have fastest overall time.
This may sound a little odd, but I wasn't necessarily looking for the fastest overall time, just wanted to go under 13 hrs., (not sure why I picked that number actually). I thought I had a really good shot of doing that if I went pretty easy on the bike, and frankly thought I could possibly manage a 4:20ish run. But the last thing I wanted to do was go too hard on the bike, average 18.3 instead of the 17.3 I did, get an extra what, 20 minutes or so? I was afraid I would eat that 20 minutes up and then some if I was walking 16 min. miles for a chunk. Maybe I was just paranoid? Well, so this begs the question..........what is your pacing plan to yield the fastest overall time? |
| 2012-11-05 7:56 PM in reply to: #4485104 |
| Member 185 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? mjewen - 2012-11-05 6:35 PM Late to the discussion but I came very close to a negative split at my 1st IM at Madison this year. By my calculations I did the 1st 13.2 miles in 2:02:24 for a 9:16.4 pace, the last 13 miles in 2:01:04 for a 9:18.8 pace. My overall pace was officially 9:17. I followed my plan of walking all but a couple of the early and last 2 aid stations. Walked about 1/4 of Observatory Hill both loops, roughly .10 mile. I wasn't trying to negative split rather just run within myself at an effort I could maintain the whole run. I used HR as my guide and was conservative. Pre-race I was thinking 9:50 to 10:00 pace. In hindsight, I could have gone a little harder earlier at the end, maybe the last 4-5 miles instead of just the last 1.5 miles. I had a 5:49:30 bike split and pre-race I was looking at 6:00. Congrats on a good race and a nice consistent run. You are an IRONMAN!!
Wow, that's an awesome run and awesome race!! Congrats to you too, Ironman! |
| 2012-11-05 8:51 PM in reply to: #4484050 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Left Brain - 2012-11-05 10:59 AM Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? Yep. Stuff happens. Often that stuff includes biking too hard. Our bodies are smarter than we are and eventually they say "guess what You -- we're walking now." Having said that, in my last IM, the 'stuff' that happened to me was mostly on the bike and in the middle of the run, when I did some walking (and quite a bit of puking). I haven't checked the splits, but I'm pretty sure I actually did negative split that 'run', only because I actually ran most of the back half and walked a few miles of the first half. Like you, I've raced many HIMs, and while I've had good ones and bad ones, I've never fallen apart as I have in IM. IM is just a different beast. This isn't meant to scare you or to be one-upsmanship. Just a fair warning. I believe that you will be smart, and if things go your way, it'll be a good race, maybe even a great race.
And to OP: Nice job out there! |
| 2012-11-05 11:32 PM in reply to: #4485273 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Experior - 2012-11-05 8:51 PM Left Brain - 2012-11-05 10:59 AM Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? Yep. Stuff happens. Often that stuff includes biking too hard. Our bodies are smarter than we are and eventually they say "guess what You -- we're walking now." Having said that, in my last IM, the 'stuff' that happened to me was mostly on the bike and in the middle of the run, when I did some walking (and quite a bit of puking). I haven't checked the splits, but I'm pretty sure I actually did negative split that 'run', only because I actually ran most of the back half and walked a few miles of the first half. Like you, I've raced many HIMs, and while I've had good ones and bad ones, I've never fallen apart as I have in IM. IM is just a different beast. This isn't meant to scare you or to be one-upsmanship. Just a fair warning. I believe that you will be smart, and if things go your way, it'll be a good race, maybe even a great race.
And to OP: Nice job out there! I'm long past making judgements on how people finish an IM, and I appreciate every bit of this kind of advice as I get ready to ramp up my training with a goal of running the entire marathon portion. I'm taking every warning to heart as I get some base miles on my legs and figure this out for myself. Still....as much of a goal of mine as it is.....I'll be a long way from disappointed if I don't achieve that part of my goal. At 52, I'm really good with still being in the game after all these years, and you know what I have going with my kids. A serious goal for sure.....but just gravy really, something to shoot for. Your posts are usually gold, I take your advice seriously. Thanks! Edited by Left Brain 2012-11-05 11:34 PM |
| 2012-11-06 12:11 AM in reply to: #4484050 |
| Extreme Veteran 844 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Left Brain - 2012-11-05 9:59 AM JM2 - 2012-11-05 8:36 AM Well, thought I'd report back on this...................ran the whole thing (not aid stations), missed even split by approx. 5 minutes. Swim/bike RPE & pacing were exactly what I felt like I needed, got off the bike at almost exactly 8 hrs. into the race then I tried to find something in the first few miles in the 10:00 - 10:30 range that I felt like I could hold, ended up bouncing around between about 10:30 & 10:45. I walked just about every aid station, some I just slowed down enough to grab some water to pour over my head, and some I actually had to stop for :10 or so while I dumped a couple cups of ice in my water bottle. Stomach was killing me most of the way, so all I could do was take sips of water until about mile 17 when I started drinking some coke, which seemed to help. I never really thought much actually during the run about negative/even split, I truly focused on one mile at a time, and sometimes even less than that. If I was at 17.3, I might tell myself to just keep going until 17.6, because then I'd have "well less" than .5 until I was at 18. Then at 18.7 I might think "come on man, just keep going for another .3, then you can have some more ice, just run to the ice, that is all you have to do, just run to the ice". There was something that happened to me at about mile 20-21 or so, I don't know why, but I stopped thinking in those small chunks, now I was thinking about how I had less than a 10K to go, then I had less than 5 mi., then a 5K......I was getting pumped, I started thinking about the finish line, seeing my wife/kids, what I was about to accomplish, etc. So after accounting for walking the aid stations/special needs stop my total run was 4:40:03, which works out to a 10:41 pace, but right around 2:17 for the first half and about 2:22 for the second half. I passed 555 people on the run, which yea, was kind of fun :-) That was my first ironman, but outside of some nutrition modification, (wanted to throw up the whole run), I'm not sure I would have done anything different pacing/RPE wise because I don't think missing an even split by 5 minutes is all that much.........not enough anyway for me to think some major changes would have been warranted. When I was swimming/biking I was constantly thinking about the run, when people were passing me on the bike I thought about the run, it sounds sadistic but I couldn't wait to get to the run to see what I could do with it. Sorry for the long post, this has almost turned into a race report. But in summary I learned #1) yes, you can absolutely run the whole thing #2) negative/even splits are well within the realm of possibility if you want to make that a priority. Thanks for reporting back......sounds like some run suffering, good job! It's always fun (not) when you have to start making deals with yourself for another few yards. The bolded part always amazes me when I read IM reports. Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? Passed over 600 on the run, would've been more if my head didn't get in the way on the way back from the turnaround on the first loop. Found my weaknesses and know where to focus for the next one...
Great race! |
| 2012-11-06 12:15 AM in reply to: #4485391 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? dbrawders - 2012-11-06 12:11 AM Left Brain - 2012-11-05 9:59 AM JM2 - 2012-11-05 8:36 AM Well, thought I'd report back on this...................ran the whole thing (not aid stations), missed even split by approx. 5 minutes. Swim/bike RPE & pacing were exactly what I felt like I needed, got off the bike at almost exactly 8 hrs. into the race then I tried to find something in the first few miles in the 10:00 - 10:30 range that I felt like I could hold, ended up bouncing around between about 10:30 & 10:45. I walked just about every aid station, some I just slowed down enough to grab some water to pour over my head, and some I actually had to stop for :10 or so while I dumped a couple cups of ice in my water bottle. Stomach was killing me most of the way, so all I could do was take sips of water until about mile 17 when I started drinking some coke, which seemed to help. I never really thought much actually during the run about negative/even split, I truly focused on one mile at a time, and sometimes even less than that. If I was at 17.3, I might tell myself to just keep going until 17.6, because then I'd have "well less" than .5 until I was at 18. Then at 18.7 I might think "come on man, just keep going for another .3, then you can have some more ice, just run to the ice, that is all you have to do, just run to the ice". There was something that happened to me at about mile 20-21 or so, I don't know why, but I stopped thinking in those small chunks, now I was thinking about how I had less than a 10K to go, then I had less than 5 mi., then a 5K......I was getting pumped, I started thinking about the finish line, seeing my wife/kids, what I was about to accomplish, etc. So after accounting for walking the aid stations/special needs stop my total run was 4:40:03, which works out to a 10:41 pace, but right around 2:17 for the first half and about 2:22 for the second half. I passed 555 people on the run, which yea, was kind of fun :-) That was my first ironman, but outside of some nutrition modification, (wanted to throw up the whole run), I'm not sure I would have done anything different pacing/RPE wise because I don't think missing an even split by 5 minutes is all that much.........not enough anyway for me to think some major changes would have been warranted. When I was swimming/biking I was constantly thinking about the run, when people were passing me on the bike I thought about the run, it sounds sadistic but I couldn't wait to get to the run to see what I could do with it. Sorry for the long post, this has almost turned into a race report. But in summary I learned #1) yes, you can absolutely run the whole thing #2) negative/even splits are well within the realm of possibility if you want to make that a priority. Thanks for reporting back......sounds like some run suffering, good job! It's always fun (not) when you have to start making deals with yourself for another few yards. The bolded part always amazes me when I read IM reports. Passing 555 people with a 10:41 pace seems crazy to me. Granted, I've not done an IM, but I've raced plenty up to HIM. I believe your report because I've seem it so many times.....the only assumption I can come up with is that a very large percentage of people walk most of the marathon? Is that right? Passed over 600 on the run, would've been more if my head didn't get in the way on the way back from the turnaround on the first loop. Found my weaknesses and know where to focus for the next one...
Great race! What do you attribute passing 600 to? Did you run the entire marathon? What do you think you did right and wrong? Thanks! |
| 2012-11-06 12:53 AM in reply to: #4474362 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? I have run all of my 3 IM runs including the first one. I have been able to put in some kick with the last 2 miles being faster paced than the previous 4, but miles 13 to 22 on the IM run are tough to not lose a little time on. I try to start my kick at mile 20 with a gradual increase in effort peaking at the finish line, but mostly it is harder effort to hold the same speed until those last 2 miles. So I generally do not net a negative split, but was happy with my 3:40:xx IM run last go. Ya could go better, but, was decent for me. |
| 2012-11-06 1:04 AM in reply to: #4485412 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? Baowolf - 2012-11-06 12:53 AM I have run all of my 3 IM runs including the first one. I have been able to put in some kick with the last 2 miles being faster paced than the previous 4, but miles 13 to 22 on the IM run are tough to not lose a little time on. I try to start my kick at mile 20 with a gradual increase in effort peaking at the finish line, but mostly it is harder effort to hold the same speed until those last 2 miles. So I generally do not net a negative split, but was happy with my 3:40:xx IM run last go. Ya could go better, but, was decent for me. What did you do on the bike? |
| 2012-11-06 10:34 AM in reply to: #4485392 |
| Extreme Veteran 844 | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? What do you attribute passing 600 to? Did you run the entire marathon? What do you think you did right and wrong? Thanks! I didn't run the entire marathon, walked the aid stations (i'd probably say 75% of them). Had some spots in the 2nd 6.5 that I "extended" the aid stations, but I didn't walk more than a tenth of a mile at a shot. Maybe i'm reading it wrong, but looking at my overall rank coming off the bike I was 1645, where as the run I was 1020? I've always been a stronger runner than the other disciplines (not stellar mind you) so I had a good base to go to from that, but as far as what I did right/wrong here's a go: Right - run training focused on time vs. distance. workouts included starting at a slower pace and increasing speed/decreasing pace for each block of time. That helped me run stronger on tired legs. Bricks - nothing super extended, but typically an hour off of the bike (so like a 3 hour bike/1 hour run, etc) nutrition - I tried my normal gu/water/perform on the run, but the stomach wasn't having it.. went to straight coke/water per aid station and felt like a million bucks.. sipped on perform every other to ensure to get something in from an electrolyte perspective.. but also might consider a salt stick/pills in the future. Wrong - Let my head get in the way, my legs hurt and I was giving in.. needed to not listen and just run, would've been much closer to a 4 hour marathon. Need to figure out if my extended walks on the second loop were due to nutrition, mental weakness, etc.. Special needs - probably didn't need to really stop there, grabbed a salt pill and some Tylenol and a shirt I ended up giving away to a racer wearing a trashbag to stay warm.. could've spent less time at special needs on the bike as well, but alas.. Biofreeze - I was putting this on my legs at each turn around to help with tightness/cramps (just had little sample packs). probably didn't need to do this as often as I did, but it was working.. Could've done it just one time and I think I would've been ok, few minutes spent but oh well. I'm sure i'll replay this in my mind and will write up a race report with additional details.. it was my first so a lot of learning experiences for me as to what to do/not to do.. so please take with a grain of salt as I was/am an IM rookie.. |
| 2013-03-10 11:49 PM in reply to: #4474362 |
Veteran 550 austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Possible To Negative Split Ironman Run? All good stuff in this thread. I was going to post this exact same question. I, like the OP, negative split every long training ride/ run. I know I should listen to you guys and not go for it, in two weeks, but in my head I'm so afraid of blowing up early. It seems like a less risky approach is to start easy and leave enough in the tank to finish strong at the end, rather than going to hard at the stay and death marching the middle of the race... Who knows maybe I'll ends up on that boat as well no matterwhat approach i use. |
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