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Second US Civil War (Page 2)
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 2012-11-30 11:42 AM in reply to: #4516480 |
 Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida |  Subject: RE: Second US Civil Warpowerman - 2012-11-30 12:40 PM GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 10:33 AM powerman - 2012-11-30 12:05 PM GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 9:06 AM mr2tony - 2012-11-30 10:42 AM Texas has 90 peaks over a mile high. It is also 700 miles across. You could invade the panhandle (the square part up top) but you'd have a hard time beyond that. Also, you'd have to get past Lubbock where they've been ready for this for a while...bradleyd3 - 2012-11-30 9:34 AM From a strategic point of view, invading Texas wouldn't be a challenge. The only thing it has going for it is its size. Colorado, now that would be a hard state to take. The sheer amount of mountain warfare folks you'd need to take it would be hard to come by. I assume the original Red Dawn was filmed there, which is proof that guerrilla warfare in the mountains could be effective. Especially with Patrick Swayze leading the resistance.hrliles - 2012-11-30 9:26 AMMy money would be on Texas. I don't know you....but I love you.Yes....Texas whips all the other pansy-a$$ states.What now?!?! Bring it on y'allWow... A whole mile hu... that's impressive. I live above that on flat ground. Big question is.. who the heck wants the fine Republic of Texas? My point there smart man is that TX ain't all flat. It has terrain to account for. It's a huge state. Question back at you is who wants Siberia...Oil, Gas, Uranium, Coal. Lots of useful stuff these days. If I was an Armadillo, I could think of no better place. I would tend to think in another civil war Texas would do the same thing it's done for the last 100 years... remain the Republic of Texas and act like the other 49 do not exist. Funny. And true. |
| 2012-11-30 11:47 AM in reply to: #4515987 |
Elite  6387    | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. |
| 2012-11-30 11:51 AM in reply to: #4516496 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War powerman - 2012-11-30 12:47 PM What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. Texas has some coal. I think there are something like 5 mines in the state. And the coal plants are just hanging on until gas prices reach a point that assures a return on repowering. I wonder what would happen bank-wise in this circumstance. Theoretically, the state with the IM department for most banks would win that fight... |
| 2012-11-30 11:51 AM in reply to: #4516480 |
Pro 4313 McKinney, TX | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War powerman - 2012-11-30 11:40 AM I would tend to think in another civil war Texas would do the same thing it's done for the last 100 years... remain the Republic of Texas and act like the other 49 do not exist. See my post about 3 above this one.... |
| 2012-11-30 11:56 AM in reply to: #4516496 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War powerman - 2012-11-30 11:47 AM What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. Actually North Dakota has all the wheat, oil and the nukes. Plus they could trade with Canadia for other supplies like moose for meat and metal for weapons. Yep, all 82 people who live in ND would be armed to the teeth. |
| 2012-11-30 11:59 AM in reply to: #4516521 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War mr2tony - 2012-11-30 12:56 PM powerman - 2012-11-30 11:47 AM Actually North Dakota has all the wheat, oil and the nukes. Plus they could trade with Canadia for other supplies like moose for meat and metal for weapons. Yep, all 82 people who live in ND would be armed to the teeth. What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. They'd all start fighting over the 2 women in the State and then they'd implode... |
| 2012-11-30 12:05 PM in reply to: #4516527 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 11:59 AM mr2tony - 2012-11-30 12:56 PM powerman - 2012-11-30 11:47 AM Actually North Dakota has all the wheat, oil and the nukes. Plus they could trade with Canadia for other supplies like moose for meat and metal for weapons. Yep, all 82 people who live in ND would be armed to the teeth. What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. They'd all start fighting over the 2 women in the State and then they'd implode... There's two now? Who's the new girl? |
| 2012-11-30 12:06 PM in reply to: #4516527 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 11:59 AM mr2tony - 2012-11-30 12:56 PM powerman - 2012-11-30 11:47 AM Actually North Dakota has all the wheat, oil and the nukes. Plus they could trade with Canadia for other supplies like moose for meat and metal for weapons. Yep, all 82 people who live in ND would be armed to the teeth. What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. They'd all start fighting over the 2 women all the sheep in the State and then they'd implode... fixed |
| 2012-11-30 12:11 PM in reply to: #4516544 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War crowny2 - 2012-11-30 1:06 PM . GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 11:59 AM mr2tony - 2012-11-30 12:56 PM powerman - 2012-11-30 11:47 AM Actually North Dakota has all the wheat, oil and the nukes. Plus they could trade with Canadia for other supplies like moose for meat and metal for weapons. Yep, all 82 people who live in ND would be armed to the teeth. What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. They'd all start fighting over the 2 women all the sheep in the State and then they'd implode... fixed Ahh North Dakota...where men are men and so are some of the women... Ahh North Dakota where men are men and the sheep are scared... Ahh North Dakota, because Snowy Wasteland was too long for a state name... |
| 2012-11-30 12:17 PM in reply to: #4516496 |
| Subject: RE: Second US Civil War powerman - 2012-11-30 9:47 AM What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. This is a good point on energy. After some more thought I still like Texas, they have a lot in common with Arizona and I believe the would quickly form an alliance with AZ,,,, New Mexico would have two choices, enter into that alliance with TX & AZ or be decimated by them. Arizona would also be in a strong position to challenge for the power coming out of Hoover Dam, making Nevada another logical partner for that alliance. It would be very possible for there to be a division between North and South Nevada as Northern Nevada shares a lot in common with California. Southern Nevada and California share the Mojave Desert. Once TX, AZ, NM, NV solidly control Hoover Dam, So Cal would be easy pickings for that 4 state alliance. |
| 2012-11-30 12:19 PM in reply to: #4516506 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 10:51 AM powerman - 2012-11-30 12:47 PM What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. Texas has some coal. I think there are something like 5 mines in the state. And the coal plants are just hanging on until gas prices reach a point that assures a return on repowering. I wonder what would happen bank-wise in this circumstance. Theoretically, the state with the IM department for most banks would win that fight... Good luck with that. They are on their way back up. Texas is the #1 most dependent state on coal, at 36%. It imports 55% of it's coal. It does have a lot of lignite which is the lowest quality coal but it is used fro power generation. |
| 2012-11-30 12:21 PM in reply to: #4516566 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War crusevegas - 2012-11-30 1:17 PM powerman - 2012-11-30 9:47 AM What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. This is a good point on energy. After some more thought I still like Texas, they have a lot in common with Arizona and I believe the would quickly form an alliance with AZ,,,, New Mexico would have two choices, enter into that alliance with TX & AZ or be decimated by them. Arizona would also be in a strong position to challenge for the power coming out of Hoover Dam, making Nevada another logical partner for that alliance. It would be very possible for there to be a division between North and South Nevada as Northern Nevada shares a lot in common with California. Southern Nevada and California share the Mojave Desert. Once TX, AZ, NM, NV solidly control Hoover Dam, So Cal would be easy pickings for that 4 state alliance. That's a thought I had too. Most western states are not divided by an actual boundary, but by a survey line. So the shape of these states would most likely reform to some natural boundary lines. Kansas would be a no man's land on account of it being flatter than a pancake... |
| 2012-11-30 12:24 PM in reply to: #4516566 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War crusevegas - 2012-11-30 11:17 AM powerman - 2012-11-30 9:47 AM What this scenario does not take into account is energy. California is not energy independent. Right away national transmission lines would be cut and we would have a whole new ball game. States would not go it alone... the only people that can manage are East West and Texas. The West would have enough oil and coal, same as West The East would have to have the South though for oil and that in itself would be pretty ironic. Texas has their own grid, but they do not have any coal. It all comes from the North. I sort of think it is a silly exercise since it would never happen. And the whole 4 high altitude nukes killing the whole U.S. at the end... uhhh, no. This is a good point on energy. After some more thought I still like Texas, they have a lot in common with Arizona and I believe the would quickly form an alliance with AZ,,,, New Mexico would have two choices, enter into that alliance with TX & AZ or be decimated by them. Arizona would also be in a strong position to challenge for the power coming out of Hoover Dam, making Nevada another logical partner for that alliance. It would be very possible for there to be a division between North and South Nevada as Northern Nevada shares a lot in common with California. Southern Nevada and California share the Mojave Desert. Once TX, AZ, NM, NV solidly control Hoover Dam, So Cal would be easy pickings for that 4 state alliance. Hoover dam is the biggest most obvious, but Nor Cal gets most of it's power from hydro in Washington and Idaho... and even Canada. California has a lot going for it, but ift would have to have the other sates in the West to power it or to get power through... So the Rockies would be a geographical dividing line for power and water to the West. California has the food and the oil. |
| 2012-11-30 12:26 PM in reply to: #4515987 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War One bomb on one of the Central Arizona Project pumping stations and Phoenix dries up and has no water. 4.5 million people now have to find homes... |
| 2012-11-30 12:28 PM in reply to: #4516586 |
Master 2477 Oceanside, California | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War powerman - 2012-11-30 10:24 AM Hoover dam is the biggest most obvious, but Nor Cal gets most of it's power from hydro in Washington and Idaho... and even Canada. California has a lot going for it, but ift would have to have the other sates in the West to power it or to get power through... So the Rockies would be a geographical dividing line for power and water to the West. California has the food and the oil.
From a general armament point of view... Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, San Diego Naval, Miramar MCAS, Edwards AFB....
Plus, can you imagine the civilian weapons armament if the Bloods, Crips, Mexican Mafia, MS-13, Nortenos, Aryan Brotherhood, and Nazi Low Riders truced long enough to fight a common enemy? |
| 2012-11-30 12:33 PM in reply to: #4515987 |
Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War I would have to support my state. Washington also has a lot going for it in the end. Especially if we can convince out local forts and military operations to join us. we have army, navy, and airforce bases across the state. Plus we can live on our Apples, potatos and the alcohol those make  |
| 2012-11-30 12:35 PM in reply to: #4516598 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War eabeam - 2012-11-30 1:28 PM Without Hoover, Navajo, four corners, Palo Verde power plants, good luck getting those birds fueled, and out of hangars...The gangs would be useful if someone was invading, but they would be cut down in the open because the other units would hear them from a mile away "BaBooom, Baboomboom." Also, their rides have all the bling, so a sniper could pick off the driver from a mile away...powerman - 2012-11-30 10:24 AM Hoover dam is the biggest most obvious, but Nor Cal gets most of it's power from hydro in Washington and Idaho... and even Canada. California has a lot going for it, but ift would have to have the other sates in the West to power it or to get power through... So the Rockies would be a geographical dividing line for power and water to the West. California has the food and the oil.
From a general armament point of view... Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, San Diego Naval, Miramar MCAS, Edwards AFB....
Plus, can you imagine the civilian weapons armament if the Bloods, Crips, Mexican Mafia, MS-13, Nortenos, Aryan Brotherhood, and Nazi Low Riders truced long enough to fight a common enemy? |
| 2012-11-30 1:07 PM in reply to: #4516618 |
| Subject: RE: Second US Civil War GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 10:35 AM eabeam - 2012-11-30 1:28 PM Without Hoover, Navajo, four corners, Palo Verde power plants, good luck getting those birds fueled, and out of hangars...The gangs would be useful if someone was invading, but they would be cut down in the open because the other units would hear them from a mile away "BaBooom, Baboomboom." Also, their rides have all the bling, so a sniper could pick off the driver from a mile away...powerman - 2012-11-30 10:24 AM Hoover dam is the biggest most obvious, but Nor Cal gets most of it's power from hydro in Washington and Idaho... and even Canada. California has a lot going for it, but ift would have to have the other sates in the West to power it or to get power through... So the Rockies would be a geographical dividing line for power and water to the West. California has the food and the oil.
From a general armament point of view... Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, San Diego Naval, Miramar MCAS, Edwards AFB....
Plus, can you imagine the civilian weapons armament if the Bloods, Crips, Mexican Mafia, MS-13, Nortenos, Aryan Brotherhood, and Nazi Low Riders truced long enough to fight a common enemy? What would become of the Military, I would say a lot of the personnel would gravitate with assets to the State they were from or felt an allegiance to or if there was strong consensus on a base they would take and hold it. I would assume that the National Guards would maintain allegiance to the state they are in. |
| 2012-11-30 1:12 PM in reply to: #4516678 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War crusevegas - 2012-11-30 2:07 PM GomesBolt - 2012-11-30 10:35 AM eabeam - 2012-11-30 1:28 PM Without Hoover, Navajo, four corners, Palo Verde power plants, good luck getting those birds fueled, and out of hangars...The gangs would be useful if someone was invading, but they would be cut down in the open because the other units would hear them from a mile away "BaBooom, Baboomboom." Also, their rides have all the bling, so a sniper could pick off the driver from a mile away...powerman - 2012-11-30 10:24 AM Hoover dam is the biggest most obvious, but Nor Cal gets most of it's power from hydro in Washington and Idaho... and even Canada. California has a lot going for it, but ift would have to have the other sates in the West to power it or to get power through... So the Rockies would be a geographical dividing line for power and water to the West. California has the food and the oil.
From a general armament point of view... Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, San Diego Naval, Miramar MCAS, Edwards AFB....
Plus, can you imagine the civilian weapons armament if the Bloods, Crips, Mexican Mafia, MS-13, Nortenos, Aryan Brotherhood, and Nazi Low Riders truced long enough to fight a common enemy? What would become of the Military, I would say a lot of the personnel would gravitate with assets to the State they were from or felt an allegiance to or if there was strong consensus on a base they would take and hold it. I would assume that the National Guards would maintain allegiance to the state they are in. That's one of the first things they discuss in the article. Florida and Texas numbers are a bit schewed because a lot of people claim residency in those states to avoid paying state income taxes. But it's reasonable to assume people would largely return where they came from. The assets (ships, planes) would remain in their current states mostly because the support infrastructure for those assets are in a particular state. |
| 2012-11-30 3:08 PM in reply to: #4515987 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War If you waited until about 2 in the afternoon or on a weekend, anyone could easily run roughshod over New York, but if you tried invading in the morning or late afternoon, you'd run into millions of New Yorkers in Rush Hour Commute mode, and then G-d help you... |
| 2012-11-30 4:31 PM in reply to: #4515987 |
Pro 3932 Irvine, California | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War I have no idea who'd win, but I have a pretty good idea of who'd be the first to lose... Washington D.C.  (Although Illinois might be close in line. They have Chicago, after all, and as a lifelong Cubs and Bears fan, I can assure you they would find some way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!) |
| 2012-11-30 4:33 PM in reply to: #4517072 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War Tripolar - 2012-11-30 5:31 PMI have no idea who'd win, but I have a pretty good idea of who'd be the first to lose...Washington D.C. (Although Illinois might be close in line. They have Chicago, after all, and as a lifelong Cubs and Bears fan, I can assure you they would find some way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!)Maybe. They could plant food on the Mall, and on the golf courses. |
| 2012-11-30 4:37 PM in reply to: #4517072 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War Tripolar - 2012-11-30 4:31 PM I have no idea who'd win, but I have a pretty good idea of who'd be the first to lose... Washington D.C. (Although Illinois might be close in line. They have Chicago, after all, and as a lifelong Cubs and Bears fan, I can assure you they would find some way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!) Yeah I'm defecting back to Nebraska. At least we have ... we have ... we have ... OK well nevermind. I'm going to Canada. |
| 2012-11-30 4:37 PM in reply to: #4515987 |
Extreme Veteran 645 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War I wonder what the National Guard impact would be; most Guardsmen live in the state where their units are, however it isn't a requirement, and there surely are transplants. Active Duty units would be much more fragmented, since they're made up of people from all over the country. So assuming a high rate of migration to home states, you would have say an Army Helicopter Pilot based in North Carolina to Texas. But Guard units would hold together a lot better, so you would have more continuity in those units. They tend to be older as well, so while not as fit, can be crafty. And they'll know the home state geography pretty well. I read most of the article, so maybe I missed something on Guard units, but that may be something the author should reconsider. Pennsylvania has a HUGE Army/Air National Guard population, I think a fair amount of power generation, and agriculture is the #1 industry. But we've lost a lot of industrial manufacturing (who hasn't?), so making big things would be a challenge. |
| 2012-11-30 4:49 PM in reply to: #4515987 |
Pro 4313 McKinney, TX | Subject: RE: Second US Civil War |
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