Ketogenic diet...all the rage.

i lol'ed.

i feel like a new fad diet comes out every year, people jump on the bandwagon, then jump off and just go back to eating what they knew was healthy to begin with.

I know nothing about the diet but when it says high fats, I bet it means good fats like fish, oils (olive oil, coconut oil, etc), and nuts.

So I guess what I don't get is this...

If you are in the aerobic zone, you are burning fat.  Sitting at my computer typing this...I am burning fat.  When I go out to run, I am going to burn a fat/carb mixture based on my running intensity.  If I eat more fat, sure I will burn more fat,  Isn't that like saying if I put a ethanol/gasoline blend in my car, it will burn whatever is in the highest proportion.  If it is an 80/20 blend, whatever is in the highest concentration, by chance, will be burned first.  

My final point of confusion:  If I eat a 1500 cal diet of all carbs then expend 2500 calories, most (not all) of the 1000 cal remainder will come from stored body fat.  If I eat a 1500 cal diet of all fat then expend 2500 calories, most (not all) of the 1000 cal remainder will come from stored body fat.

Isn't it the same outcome either way?

common misconception is that your body handles all calories the same way, and that just counting calories burned vs taken in is an accurate portrayal of whats going on.

1 cal fat != 1 cal carb != 1 cal protein.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but you know that dietary fat that you eat is not the same as adipose or fat tissue on the body, right?  They're two totally different things that just happened to have the same name.

Also, don't forget that if you expend more energy than you take in, it's not all about burning body fat; sometimes you will burn muscle as well.  That's why severely restrictive diets don't work in the long run.  It's not just a simple equation with the deficit equaling what you will lose in body fat.

this is why I don't agree with the calorie=calorie argument.  People aren't all created the same.  Some people's liver's allow them to process all the preservative ridden processed foods better than others.  I believe that's why some people have stubborn body fat.  If ther liver can't process the food it switches to muscle and leaves the fat in stores.  Path of least resistance.

Fat-adapted is the term you want to use.  You want to train your body to burn fat for fuel and not rely as heavily on carbs.

Paleo nutrition follows this principle and it works for endurance athletes.  It is not a fad diet - fads are not sustainable (who can live on the cabbage soup diet?).  Why do you think the majority of people are stuck in the yo-yo dieting rut? As another poster mentioned, calories in = calories out does not work for most people.

Nell Stephenson (Paleoista) is a perfect example of a successful Ironman athlete who follows Paleo and trains others to do the same.  Mark Sisson (Primal Blueprint) is your Paleo guy + dairy.  Check out Vinnie Tortorich's postcasts (outrageous fun to listen to, but good endurance nutrition advice as well) for his No Sugar/No Grains philosophy.

Thanks for the article.  Concise, clear.  For those who aren't interested in reading I believe this was the take home message

"With growing evidence that this critical ability is impaired by dietary fat adaptation strategies and a failure to find clear evidence of benefits to prolonged exercise involving self-pacing, it seems that we are near to closing the door on one application of this dietary protocol. Scientists may remain interested in the body's response to different dietary stimuli and may hunt for the mechanisms that underpin the observed changes in metabolism and function. However, those at the coal-face of sports nutrition can delete fat loading and high-fat diets from their list of genuine ergogenic aids for conventional endurance and ultra-endurance sports."

Myself I think I am a fan of what Michael Pollan says in In Defense of Food.  "Eat real food.  Not to Much.  Mostly Plants."  

I know there are many Paleo followers, but the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics does label it as a fad diet.  Any diet that asks you to completely cut out a type of food generally considered healthy like all grains, legumes and dairy usually will be labeled as a fad. 

The Academy also brings up the point that we cannot eat meat like the cavemen did unless we're only eating what we hunt ourselves.  Most of the animals we eat are not super lean wild game so more moderation is required to sustain a healthy diet.

I'm really glad this subject came up because I've been doing quite a bit of reading on dieting lately. (Matt Fitzgerald's Racing Weight and Weight Management for Triathletes by Ingrid Loos Miller)  My wife has also been doing ideal protein and has had a lot of success with it.  However, my issue is that she can't do much aerobic exercise (because of the diet) so I don't know how much good it would be to an endurance athlete.

The way that I see it, the major pro (in theory) would be to teach your body to be more efficient in burning fat for fuel during training and on race day.  The other is that you'd probably get leaner faster on a keto diet plus triathlon training....but would your workouts be good enough to get you in the shape you need to be in?  And the workouts are the major deterrant to this diet; if you can't be as intense as you'd like, then why do a diet like this?  I looked into doing a CKD but then why would you do that in the first place if you knock yourself out of ketosis once a week or so....and that doesn't even begin to answer how you'd properly fuel yourself during workouts and stay within the proper keto nutritional values....

The article seems pretty solid.  I an avid user of the ketogenic and cyclical ketogenic diet and I can tell you that without a doubt, I would not bother trying to stay on that diet if I were training for a half or higher.  I think you could do it on an Olympic or Sprint.  I train my son for off season football and I love using a cyclical ketogenic diet for my fast twitch needs.  In terms of cardo, the longest run we do is 3 miles.  We focus on low rep strenght training (5x5), 1 mile - 3 mile cardio / warm-ups, farklets, hill intervals, plyometrics and various other speed and agility workouts.  I do NOT have him doing anything other than eating whatever he wants and using some additional whey protein shakes.  I'm the one who uses the CKD in order to stay lean while increasing strength.

I wouldn't suggest it unless you have a history of severe GI issues during races that you haven't been able to eliminate by fueling less and changing the type of carbohydrates you use for fuel.  IMO, that is the only situation where it can help performance, because it allows you to further reduce the amount of fuel you need to consume while racing.  In other words, if you are currently losing a lot of time on race day because you're in the port-o-potty or vomiting along the side of the course, you might be able to reduce or eliminate GI issues by becoming fat adapted, consuming less, and consequently slowing down less.

Whether you agree with all of Bob Seebohar's theories or not, this was the original goal behind the things he discusses in his "Metabolic Efficiency Training" books.

I'll have to follow up on fat adaptation but you are very much correct that low carb diets are far from new, and unsustainable.  In fact there are research articles on long term effects (20yrs) of low carb diets.  Not everyone knows that these types of diets have been shown to often help control seizures in epileptics.  There have also been several cancer related studies which have positive conclusions concerning cetain meats and vegetables you eat on a ketogenic diet vs. some typical carbs.

Very detailed and interesting discussion has been going on for awhile in the nutrition forum.
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=474417&posts=307&page=1