usat
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2013-01-09 7:58 PM |
New user 84 Dothan Al | Subject: usat Received a survey from Mutirace today asking my opinion about USAT sanctioning events. For 2 years, I have participated in triathlons and I have never had a good explanation about why I am required to pay for USAT membership when I have zero interest in joining. If I pay 80 to 100 dollars entry fee, I resent having to pay an outside agency for insurance, etc. In my opinion, my entry fee should cover that. The race director should handle the administrative duties and base the entry fee upon the cost the event incurs. Am I missing something? |
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2013-01-09 8:04 PM in reply to: #4570969 |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: usat steves10 - 2013-01-09 8:58 PM Received a survey from Mutirace today asking my opinion about USAT sanctioning events. For 2 years, I have participated in triathlons and I have never had a good explanation about why I am required to pay for USAT membership when I have zero interest in joining. If I pay 80 to 100 dollars entry fee, I resent having to pay an outside agency for insurance, etc. In my opinion, my entry fee should cover that. The race director should handle the administrative duties and base the entry fee upon the cost the event incurs. Am I missing something? Well would you rather them charge $92-112 entry fee and not mention USAT? The only reason I get the yearly membership is because I'd pay more doing the one day fees. Also you get a couple gear discounts here and there. I think if they require RD to insure their own races that $12 one day fee is going to be A LOT higher |
2013-01-09 8:21 PM in reply to: #4570969 |
New user 84 Dothan Al | Subject: RE: usat I would be interested in hearing from race directors with regard to your points. In truth, I already have insurance that I pay for every month. |
2013-01-09 8:31 PM in reply to: #4570997 |
Subject: RE: usat steves10 - 2013-01-09 4:21 PM I would be interested in hearing from race directors with regard to your points. In truth, I already have insurance that I pay for every month. I could be very wrong here...but... I always thought race insurance was for if the race was at serious fault for an accident, and people wanted to sue them. The insurance would protect the race director or owner from having to pay out of pocket. When you sign up to race, you normally sign an injury waiver. Stating that the race is not responsible for any injuries you may incur. That's what the insurance you pay for every month is for. If you crash your bike (by your own fault) during a race...don't expect the race insurance to cover it. Your personal insurance will. At least that's how I understand it. |
2013-01-09 8:38 PM in reply to: #4570969 |
Elite 4148 Utah | Subject: RE: usat Because the race is sanctioned... both the race participants AND the race director must purchase insurance. Your USAT fee is insurance that will cover your hospital/injury. The RD insurance covers if the person STILL sues for other damages and may end up listing other agencies (ie state DOT) in the case. Almost 20 yrs I've been in the fitness/recreation industry; I've seen/heard of WAY too many cases presented by organizations where liability waivers don't hold up in court. |
2013-01-09 8:46 PM in reply to: #4571007 |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: usat tri808 - 2013-01-09 9:31 PM steves10 - 2013-01-09 9:21 PM I would be interested in hearing from race directors with regard to your points. In truth, I already have insurance that I pay for every month. The insurance isn't for you though. steves10 - 2013-01-09 4:21 PM I would be interested in hearing from race directors with regard to your points. In truth, I already have insurance that I pay for every month. I could be very wrong here...but... I always thought race insurance was for if the race was at serious fault for an accident, and people wanted to sue them. The insurance would protect the race director or owner from having to pay out of pocket. When you sign up to race, you normally sign an injury waiver. Stating that the race is not responsible for any injuries you may incur. That's what the insurance you pay for every month is for. If you crash your bike (by your own fault) during a race...don't expect the race insurance to cover it. Your personal insurance will. At least that's how I understand it. ^^^^THIS^^^^ The insurance is to cover the RD/orginization's butt incase something goes wrong. Edited by rjrankin83 2013-01-09 8:46 PM |
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2013-01-09 9:58 PM in reply to: #4571024 |
Expert 1249 MI | Subject: RE: usat So to get this straight... either through the USAT membership or $12 daily fee, we are all paying for someone else's insurance, and not for ourselves? I guess I never really thought about it, but that seems a bit... strange?? |
2013-01-09 10:15 PM in reply to: #4570969 |
1055 | Subject: RE: usat I believe there was a Slowtwitch article not too long ago on USAT and the cost/benefit of sanctioning a race. If I remember right, most municipalities typically require the event to carry some sort of insurance. The cost of getting insurance outside USAT is very cost prohibitive. That said, I won't race an event that does not obtain USAT sanctioning. When a race is sanctioned, it has to meet certain standards, including basic stuff like making sure the course distance is reasonably accurate. I also do a one year membership because I race enough to make it worth it. I will say that the kid membership is b.s. My kids did their first tri last summer and were forced to buy a full year membership at 35 bucks a pop. They don't have one day memberships for kids. Between the entry fee and the membership fee, it cost 85 bucks for each of the twins to race 20 yards in a pool, a quarter mile bike and 100 yard run. |
2013-01-09 10:44 PM in reply to: #4571119 |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: usat michgirlsk - 2013-01-09 10:58 PM So to get this straight... either through the USAT membership or $12 daily fee, we are all paying for someone else's insurance, and not for ourselves? I guess I never really thought about it, but that seems a bit... strange?? I believe you're covered under the insurance as well, however to what extent is probably in the fine print that everyone just initals and moves on (injury waiver you sign for every race). Honestly I've never fully read an injury waiver but know I've signed one for every race I can think of (road race/tri/mud run) The answer to this question is probably in that waiver. |
2013-01-09 10:44 PM in reply to: #4571145 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: usat ziggie204 - 2013-01-09 10:15 PM I believe there was a Slowtwitch article not too long ago on USAT and the cost/benefit of sanctioning a race. If I remember right, most municipalities typically require the event to carry some sort of insurance. The cost of getting insurance outside USAT is very cost prohibitive. That said, I won't race an event that does not obtain USAT sanctioning. When a race is sanctioned, it has to meet certain standards, including basic stuff like making sure the course distance is reasonably accurate. I also do a one year membership because I race enough to make it worth it. I will say that the kid membership is b.s. My kids did their first tri last summer and were forced to buy a full year membership at 35 bucks a pop. They don't have one day memberships for kids. Between the entry fee and the membership fee, it cost 85 bucks for each of the twins to race 20 yards in a pool, a quarter mile bike and 100 yard run. A youth membership is $15.00......just saying. |
2013-01-10 1:30 AM in reply to: #4571119 |
Subject: RE: usat michgirlsk - 2013-01-09 5:58 PM So to get this straight... either through the USAT membership or $12 daily fee, we are all paying for someone else's insurance, and not for ourselves? I guess I never really thought about it, but that seems a bit... strange?? Why do you find that strange? Is it so unheard of for a company to pass on it's expenses to it's customers? Do you find it strange that a grocery store passes on it's electricity costs on to their customers? Or their water bill? Or their employees health care costs? Or their own liability insurance? Edited by tri808 2013-01-10 1:33 AM |
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2013-01-10 1:37 AM in reply to: #4571279 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: usat tri808 - 2013-01-10 1:30 AM michgirlsk - 2013-01-09 5:58 PM So to get this straight... either through the USAT membership or $12 daily fee, we are all paying for someone else's insurance, and not for ourselves? I guess I never really thought about it, but that seems a bit... strange?? Why do you find that strange? Is it so unheard of for a company to pass on it's expenses to it's customers? Do you find it strange that a grocery store passes on it's electricity costs on to you? Or it's water bill? Or their employees health care costs? Or their own liability insurance? Exactly.....and in this deal, if you take advantage of the USAT sponsors, and the deals they offer you as a member, you come out WAY ahead on the minimal membership cost. See if you can get that from your grocery store. I was a USAT detractor, until I saw firsthand what they are doing with youth development in our country. They have been through some growing pains, and have some to go through still, but it's coming along. |
2013-01-10 4:40 AM in reply to: #4571282 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: usat Left Brain - 2013-01-10 2:37 AM ^^^this^^^ Threads complaining about USAT are common, but most people don't know what their primary purpose is. It's to develop youth talent in the sports they sanction with the ultimate goal of the USA fielding competitive teams in the Olympics. They're involved in a lot of the other things, such as sanctioning non-drafting age group races for the purpose of promoting popularity in multi sport.tri808 - 2013-01-10 1:30 AM michgirlsk - 2013-01-09 5:58 PM So to get this straight... either through the USAT membership or $12 daily fee, we are all paying for someone else's insurance, and not for ourselves? I guess I never really thought about it, but that seems a bit... strange?? Why do you find that strange? Is it so unheard of for a company to pass on it's expenses to it's customers? Do you find it strange that a grocery store passes on it's electricity costs on to you? Or it's water bill? Or their employees health care costs? Or their own liability insurance? Exactly.....and in this deal, if you take advantage of the USAT sponsors, and the deals they offer you as a member, you come out WAY ahead on the minimal membership cost. See if you can get that from your grocery store. I was a USAT detractor, until I saw firsthand what they are doing with youth development in our country. They have been through some growing pains, and have some to go through still, but it's coming along. |
2013-01-10 6:35 AM in reply to: #4571145 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: usat ziggie204 - 2013-01-09 10:15 PM I believe there was a Slowtwitch article not too long ago on USAT and the cost/benefit of sanctioning a race. If I remember right, most municipalities typically require the event to carry some sort of insurance. The cost of getting insurance outside USAT is very cost prohibitive. That said, I won't race an event that does not obtain USAT sanctioning. When a race is sanctioned, it has to meet certain standards, including basic stuff like making sure the course distance is reasonably accurate. I also do a one year membership because I race enough to make it worth it. I will say that the kid membership is b.s. My kids did their first tri last summer and were forced to buy a full year membership at 35 bucks a pop. They don't have one day memberships for kids. Between the entry fee and the membership fee, it cost 85 bucks for each of the twins to race 20 yards in a pool, a quarter mile bike and 100 yard run. This is completely untrue. There is nothing in the USAT certification process that addresses accuracy of course distances. Also as previously noted, USAT membershio for those under 18 is $15 per year. A couple years ago it was only $5. Regardless, no one doing a single race is " forced to buy a full year membership." all sanctioned races should offer one-day licenses. Edited by the bear 2013-01-10 6:50 AM |
2013-01-10 6:41 AM in reply to: #4571300 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: usat TriMyBest - 2013-01-10 4:40 AM Threads complaining about USAT are common, but most people don't know what their primary purpose is. It's to develop youth talent in the sports they sanction with the ultimate goal of the USA fielding competitive teams in the Olympics. They're involved in a lot of the other things, such as sanctioning non-drafting age group races for the purpose of promoting popularity in multi sport. Don, I'm not sure how you can single out a "primary purpose" like this. USAT's mission statement is: The mission of USA Triathlon is to grow and inspire the triathlon community. And they provide a wealth of resources toward that mission. |
2013-01-10 9:02 AM in reply to: #4571356 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: usat the bear - 2013-01-10 7:41 AM TriMyBest - 2013-01-10 4:40 AM Threads complaining about USAT are common, but most people don't know what their primary purpose is. It's to develop youth talent in the sports they sanction with the ultimate goal of the USA fielding competitive teams in the Olympics. They're involved in a lot of the other things, such as sanctioning non-drafting age group races for the purpose of promoting popularity in multi sport. Don, I'm not sure how you can single out a "primary purpose" like this. USAT's mission statement is: The mission of USA Triathlon is to grow and inspire the triathlon community. And they provide a wealth of resources toward that mission. Fair enough. I may be making a little bit of a leap in saying it's their primary purpose. I base this opinion on USAT being a NGB under the USOC.
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2013-01-10 9:28 AM in reply to: #4570969 |
Extreme Veteran 1001 Highlands Ranch, Colorado | Subject: RE: usat Like others said, if you race four or more times a year the membership is the best way to go. Also, last year I took advantage of member discounts from TYR, Trisports and Rudy which more than made up the price of the membership. |
2013-01-10 9:54 AM in reply to: #4571624 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: usat TriMyBest - 2013-01-10 9:02 AM I think "one of the primary purposes" would be accurate. the bear - 2013-01-10 7:41 AM TriMyBest - 2013-01-10 4:40 AM Threads complaining about USAT are common, but most people don't know what their primary purpose is. It's to develop youth talent in the sports they sanction with the ultimate goal of the USA fielding competitive teams in the Olympics. They're involved in a lot of the other things, such as sanctioning non-drafting age group races for the purpose of promoting popularity in multi sport. Don, I'm not sure how you can single out a "primary purpose" like this. USAT's mission statement is: The mission of USA Triathlon is to grow and inspire the triathlon community. And they provide a wealth of resources toward that mission. Fair enough. I may be making a little bit of a leap in saying it's their primary purpose. I base this opinion on USAT being a NGB under the USOC.
BTW, anyone interested can pull up tax returns from USAT and many other non-profits on sites like GuideStar. Per 2010 TR, $7million in revenues came form membership and $1.6mlion was spent on event sanctioning, including liability insurance. |
2013-01-10 10:22 AM in reply to: #4570969 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: usat It also brings a certain level or professionalism to races. By and large the USAT-sanctioned events I've done are well run and safe. Most of those people checking out bikes, equipment, and courses prior to a race are pretty thorough and take their job seriously. I've volunteered at non-sanctioned races and don't always see the same. |
2013-01-10 10:52 AM in reply to: #4571820 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: usat BrianRunsPhilly - 2013-01-10 10:22 AMIt also brings a certain level or professionalism to races. By and large the USAT-sanctioned events I've done are well run and safe. Most of those people checking out bikes, equipment, and courses prior to a race are pretty thorough and take their job seriously. I've volunteered at non-sanctioned races and don't always see the same. I would argue that this is more a function of the specific race organization than the USAT sanctioning, as none of those things you mention are part of the sanctioning process. I've been to great non- sanctioned races, and sanctioned races that leave a lot to be desired. Perhaps in general it's the more diligent organizations are the ones that seek the added layer of sanctioning, rather than the sanctioning causing the organization to be more diligent? |
2013-01-10 11:06 AM in reply to: #4571750 |
Expert 1342 Apex, NC | Subject: RE: usat the bear - 2013-01-10 10:54 AM [ BTW, anyone interested can pull up tax returns from USAT and many other non-profits on sites like GuideStar. Per 2010 TR, $7million in revenues came form membership and $1.6mlion was spent on event sanctioning, including liability insurance.
THIS is interesting. Wow. Where'd the rest go? Profit sharing back to USAT members? |
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2013-01-10 12:38 PM in reply to: #4570969 |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: usat I got that same survey from Multirace. I cannot figure out what their goal was for sending that out.
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2013-01-10 1:39 PM in reply to: #4571923 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: usat fgump - 2013-01-10 12:06 PM the bear - 2013-01-10 10:54 AM [ BTW, anyone interested can pull up tax returns from USAT and many other non-profits on sites like GuideStar. Per 2010 TR, $7million in revenues came form membership and $1.6mlion was spent on event sanctioning, including liability insurance.
THIS is interesting. Wow. Where'd the rest go? Profit sharing back to USAT members? I'm looking ay $1.7 mil spent on members (magazine, individial liability while participating, etc) and $1.6 mil on event sanctioning (event insurance, development, risk management, safety reviews, etc) $4.8 mil spent on "competitions and training" to include junior teams, age group championships, coaching education, elite athletes, training race officials, I'd say its more than worth the annual memebership fee. |
2013-01-10 2:03 PM in reply to: #4571820 |
Veteran 667 asheville, nc | Subject: RE: usat BrianRunsPhilly - 2013-01-10 11:22 AM It also brings a certain level or professionalism to races. By and large the USAT-sanctioned events I've done are well run and safe. Most of those people checking out bikes, equipment, and courses prior to a race are pretty thorough and take their job seriously. I've volunteered at non-sanctioned races and don't always see the same. No!?! Would an example be the volunteer at a non-sanctioned race I did last year, who was supposed to be stopping traffic as cyclists made a 90 degree turn onto another road, but instead was sitting in a chair playing with her phone, not paying any attention at all? |
2013-01-10 2:27 PM in reply to: #4571349 |
1055 | Subject: RE: usat Pulled up an old statement, you are correct, it was 16.01 per kid. Not sure where I got the $35 dollar figure from.
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