Bleach violence, weapons of war, and the numbers game. What problem are we trying to solve?

As a member of a demographic of which upwards of 30% of us attempt suicide at some point, I do not like it when people decide that since people dying due to suicide is suicide, that it shouldn't count, or doesn't matter with respect to the larger issue of guns. The easy availability of guns makes it just that much easier to for people to kill themselves. Perhaps if guns were not so readily available, some of these souls would have tried a less lethal method and failed, or not tried at all. Or perhaps if there was a longer waiting period for purchasing a gun, some of these souls might have had second thoughts or a "cooling-off" period and still be with us.

A bullet ripping through one's head is pretty GD violent, if you ask me. And to discount those who commit suicide is heartless.

We need a strawman argument font on BT, I think.

I like you powerman.

These videos are intelligent and thought provoking!  Tea leaf, did you watch the videos?

I do like how he questions the term "assault rifle".  Perhaps my BB gun will be defined as such.

That's the appearance.  But everyone, including those proposing the ban, it's really about power.  It's about controlling what people can do.  It's about making it look like you are doing something.

What get's more press?  Banning all semi-automatic guns or proposing a law that gives more funding to the mentally ill.

It's grandstanding, parading and political theater.  All at the loss of freedoms.

I think at its heart this is about an attack on natural rights based in natural law
by those who believe only in positive law.

On one side you have a transcendent belief of what man is
on the other the material belief of what man is.

The Founders understood that we are transcendent in nature.

The 2nd amendment merely states what is a natural right based in natural law.

The progressive movement does not in general believe in natural rights, and certainly not natural law.
For them everything is a material construct and the only legitimate law is positive law. 

If they're right, then the Bill of Rights should just be called the Bill of Suggestions.

We are NOT trying to fix anything, we are trying to remove the ability for law abiding citizens to own any type of firearm.

So burn it down then.  How do you make guns "less available"?

For suicide, all you need a is a single shot revolver. No magazine, no semi-auto. It has been done with bolt action rifles. So at least on that side of the argument, you have to ban all fire arms period. That isn't going to happen.

With suicide by gun making up half of all suicides.. it does not seem to be that ridiculous... I mean if guns accounted for 80% , 90%, but 18,000 people find a way with out a gun. Of those that have decided to pull the trigger, how many will resolve to do it another way with out a gun? I do not know the answer... I just know we will not have 18,000 less suicides. And I also know an "assault weapon ban" will not stop one single suicide with a gun. Absolutely ZERO impact.

Or you could, you know, not click on them...

I feel the same way,,,,,,,, about all of the gun legislation being proposed.

Oh no I find it all very interesting to read.  The passion of everyone on here is amazing, you should email the threads to the president!

Sure... could you ask the media and the State and Fedeal Legislatures to do the same please? Thanks.

My point of this is that the media are making calculated efforts to paint a story that does not even begin to address the reason they say the story is about. There has been a constant flow of misinformation and "marketing" to produce a product that quite frankly I don't want.

My point here is if 851 accidental gun deaths matter, then why does 122,000 accidental deaths not matter as much. If we call a suicide by gun "gun violence" ... then why do we not call it "rope violence" when they use that?

Why is it that over 100,000 Americans die every year from simple drug use... not illegal, not overdose... yet nobody is screaming for the hault of "Doctor Violence", or "Pharmacy Violence"?

Why is it that everyone is so concerned with how many guns I own and how I must store them, when 36,000 people die every year being poisoned by common stuff? Why are they not so concerned about that?

Why is it that I can walk into any doctors office in America and ASK for enough medication to kill myself 3 times over, and they won't even blink an eye writing out the script? But somhow guns are the problem with suicides.

Those that choose not to use their rights, demand I do the same... all in the name of safety... when they turn a blind eye to hundreds of thousands of other deaths?

The fact remains... we are at a place where we have more guns than ever before, and the FACT is, gun deaths are down. Violent crimes are down. FACT. We have much lower crime RATES, than other gun restricted societies. Not saying that is because we are so well armed, but I am shinning light on the LIE that more guns = more gun deaths. We should have more gun violence than ever before if we have more guns than ever before.... and that is flat out false.

You know posting that put it back to the top right?

Why can't I have a 12 round semi-automatic grenade launcher? Why can't I have 20kg of C4 for my farm? Why can't I have a stinger missile launcher? 

One, because you can't afford a Stinger Missle Launcher. But if you had $20,000 laying around, you could own a M-16.

Two, because explosives are covered under the National Firearm Act, and so are grenade launchers.

Have you EVER heard the NRA argue for grenade launchers? Have you ever heard them argue for claymore mines?

More misinformation and diversion. What we are arguing about is personal fire arms protected under the 2A... specifically mentioned... and defined in numerous cases across the land.

We could discuss why you can't have a unicorn, but I do not see the relavence to the discussion on gun control.

Cause you are in Canada where violent crime is higher than the US and you are not trusted to have firearms to defend yourself with.

Baby steps, try to get your gubmnt to let you have a 5 or 6 shot revolver so your women can have the right to protect themselves from rapists or as you call it in Canada, sexual assault.

• ¹ Total number of murders for which supplemental homicide data were received.
• ² Pushed is included in hands, fists, feet, etc.
• ³ Limited supplemental homicide data were received.

Looking at these stats tell me why going after the ar15 style weapons makes any sense?

Because that would be silly.

Wow, you got that all the way on the other side of the world.... must be obvious.

Well yeah where would you keep all that stuff anyway? 

On a more serious note, I'm not really for nor against - but I live in Australia, if someone breaks into my house and intends to do me harm - I got nothing.  I can probably get to the kitchen and find a knife of some sort - by which time this armed intruder (because yes our criminals are also gun wielding) will have inflicted the damage he came to do.

It's funny coz everyone here thinks y'all gun crazy over there.  They think there aren't guns here.  I could if I really wanted probably get hold of a gun in the next hour - if I really wanted.