General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Strength Training before or after cardio Rss Feed  
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2013-01-22 3:14 PM

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Subject: Strength Training before or after cardio
What is better and most efficient for training. To lift weights after or before cardio at the gym?


2013-01-22 3:28 PM
in reply to: #4589836

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

Which one is most important to you to execute properly?  Do that one first.  Or do one in the morning, one in the evening.

ETA: properly is not the right word, you should execute both properly.  But which one do you want to maximize the benefit of? 



Edited by bzgl40 2013-01-22 3:29 PM
2013-01-22 3:37 PM
in reply to: #4589836

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
i always do my strength training after a good 10-20 minute cardio warmup so i guess after. 
2013-01-22 3:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
It also depends on if you're trying to loose or gain weight too. If you're trying to loose weight it would be better to lift first then do cardio so when you start your cardio you've already burned off a majority of your glucose stores which then teaches your body to burn fat for fuel at that point. If you're trying to maintain or gain then lift after cardio so you don't put your muscle reserve in jeopardy.
2013-01-22 3:47 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

I don't have the book by me right now to grab an exact quote from, but in his book 'Advanced Marathoning', Pete Pfitzinger suggests that you should always do the strength training first.

If I'm recalling correctly, it has to do with the energy systems involved and the potential for glycogen depletion.  With lifting largely being an anaerobic endeavor, the likelihood of it using up any glycogen stores sufficient to impact your running is slim.  Mind you, the book is 100% geared toward marathoners, so it assumes longer runs than you may be doing.  

 

With shorter runs, there is probably no compelling reason to do one before the other, so the answer of "whichever you want to focus on most" would be the correct way to go.

2013-01-22 4:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
I like to do both.

I'll always run a bit before and after weights, but which one is a workout depends on the day.

Sometimes I do a well structured run workout then weights, then a cooldown, other days i will warm-up, weights, and then a less structured run to replicate running when I feel depleted and like crap.


2013-01-22 7:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
I strength train first, which includes leg work like squats and lunges as well as the upper body and core work.  I usually try to run within a half hour of finishing up an hour long strength session.  I feel this helps acclimate me to running under fatigue and low energy situations.  I won't be fresh when i reach the run on race day, so I think training this way helps prepare my body and psyche for the challenges of the sport.
2013-01-22 8:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

strength train first or you are wasting your time when you do it afterwards.

glycogen is the key factor here people.

2013-01-22 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

It depends what the goal is.

 

If you're lifting to actually get maximal strength and bulk/mass (like a bodybuilder) you have to lift FIRST - you'll be too fatigued otherwise to get those crucial max low reps needed to stimulate the strength/mass gain.

 

If you're however just lifting for overall 'core' balance/fitness and not interested in bulking up or even increasing your hi-end strength, do it after and prioritize the endurance.

2013-01-22 9:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
yazmaster - 2013-01-22 9:38 PM

It depends what the goal is. 

If you're lifting to actually get maximal strength and bulk/mass (like a bodybuilder) you have to lift FIRST - you'll be too fatigued otherwise to get those crucial max low reps needed to stimulate the strength/mass gain. 

If you're however just lifting for overall 'core' balance/fitness and not interested in bulking up or even increasing your hi-end strength, do it after and prioritize the endurance.

bulking/massing is based on diet more than routine.  i seriously doubt anyone on these forums is eating the correct diet to bulk up.  

when you perform a cardio workout your body burns glycogen rapidly during the first 20ish minutes, then converts to other sources, ie fats.  when you lift your body has to have glycogen, glycogen is the carb stored in your muscles. it is required during glycogenolysis, which occurs under short intense repeated exercises, ie resistance training.  if you burn up all of your glycogen you might as well skip the weights.  it isn't that important for your S/B/R but you need it during resistance training.

2013-01-22 9:39 PM
in reply to: #4590408


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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
Clempson - 2013-01-22 9:35 PM
yazmaster - 2013-01-22 9:38 PM

It depends what the goal is. 

If you're lifting to actually get maximal strength and bulk/mass (like a bodybuilder) you have to lift FIRST - you'll be too fatigued otherwise to get those crucial max low reps needed to stimulate the strength/mass gain. 

If you're however just lifting for overall 'core' balance/fitness and not interested in bulking up or even increasing your hi-end strength, do it after and prioritize the endurance.

bulking/massing is based on diet more than routine.  i seriously doubt anyone on these forums is eating the correct diet to bulk up.  

when you perform a cardio workout your body burns glycogen rapidly during the first 20ish minutes, then converts to other sources, ie fats.  when you lift your body has to have glycogen, glycogen is the carb stored in your muscles. it is required during glycogenolysis, which occurs under short intense repeated exercises, ie resistance training.  if you burn up all of your glycogen you might as well skip the weights.  it isn't that important for your S/B/R but you need it during resistance training.

While I'm no bodybuilding beast, for sure I get noticeably more mass in my weak areas just from doing the low-rep activities and no special additions to diet. It's possible that with the lifting, my body just tells me to eat more, but it's pretty clear that you can add definition and even mass (albeit not bodybuilder tons of it) just by lifting and eating a reasonable diet.



2013-01-22 9:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
yazmaster - 2013-01-22 10:39 PM
Clempson - 2013-01-22 9:35 PM
yazmaster - 2013-01-22 9:38 PM

It depends what the goal is. 

If you're lifting to actually get maximal strength and bulk/mass (like a bodybuilder) you have to lift FIRST - you'll be too fatigued otherwise to get those crucial max low reps needed to stimulate the strength/mass gain. 

If you're however just lifting for overall 'core' balance/fitness and not interested in bulking up or even increasing your hi-end strength, do it after and prioritize the endurance.

bulking/massing is based on diet more than routine.  i seriously doubt anyone on these forums is eating the correct diet to bulk up.  

when you perform a cardio workout your body burns glycogen rapidly during the first 20ish minutes, then converts to other sources, ie fats.  when you lift your body has to have glycogen, glycogen is the carb stored in your muscles. it is required during glycogenolysis, which occurs under short intense repeated exercises, ie resistance training.  if you burn up all of your glycogen you might as well skip the weights.  it isn't that important for your S/B/R but you need it during resistance training.

While I'm no bodybuilding beast, for sure I get noticeably more mass in my weak areas just from doing the low-rep activities and no special additions to diet. It's possible that with the lifting, my body just tells me to eat more, but it's pretty clear that you can add definition and even mass (albeit not bodybuilder tons of it) just by lifting and eating a reasonable diet.

yes but it isn't going to be to the extreme that is it exceeding detrimental to one's triathlon goals, the amount you are talking about isn't "bulking"

2013-01-22 9:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

I'm actually of the opinion that bulking to that degree is unhealthful.

 

I certainly put on 25lbs of pure muscle between ages 18-22 just by lifting very hard, like a powerlifter (before triathlon), no crazy food diets needed. (This was also after my growth spurt, so it wasn't just puberty - noticeabale change in muscle mass, even visually.) Sure, I probably could have packed on even more had I pigged out like the pro bodybuilders, but even without it there was no denying that I'd put on a fair amount of muscle mass just by lifting and waiting for the body's response. No need to take it to pro bodybuilding extremes, even to gain a fair amount of muscle through training.

2013-01-23 3:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

I always lift first then do cardio or separate them out doing cardio in the AM and lifting in the PM. If I try to do any serious cardio before I lift my lifts aren't as successful; I can't lift as heavy. Note though, I powerlift so I am lifting heavier than if I was just doing regular strength conditioning. One added benefit I find is doing say spin class after a heavy legs day means I will be less sore from the lifting over the next few days.

2013-01-23 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
Despite the bro science being used in this thread, it really depends on your goals. If you want to build as much strength as you can, then a light warm-up followed by a very intense strength session is the way to go. If your goal is to improve your ability in endurance events as much as you can, then the focus should be on SBR followed by strength.

Shane
2013-01-23 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
I always do my ST and running on the same day so If I cant do a 2 a day, I will ST, run, then stretch and do some core.


2013-01-23 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

gsmacleod - 2013-01-23 9:52 AM Despite the bro science being used in this thread, it really depends on your goals. If you want to build as much strength as you can, then a light warm-up followed by a very intense strength session is the way to go. If your goal is to improve your ability in endurance events as much as you can, then the focus should be on SBR followed by strength. Shane

Hmmmm been a long time since anyone called me a bro. 

2013-01-23 10:51 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

gsmacleod - 2013-01-23 6:52 AM Despite the bro science being used in this thread, it really depends on your goals. If you want to build as much strength as you can, then a light warm-up followed by a very intense strength session is the way to go. If your goal is to improve your ability in endurance events as much as you can, then the focus should be on SBR followed by strength. Shane

Yup!  After or in between when there's a swim several hours after the ST session.

2013-01-23 11:32 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
The following "rule" may contain some broscience but it's actually common sense if you think about it. Here is the rule:

Do what requires the most technique and focus first when you are fresh.

Which exercise would require more technique and focus: a heavy squat or a run? Answer: Heavy squat. Lose focus on this, allow your form to break down due to fatigue, and you're looking at an injury.
2013-01-24 11:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
I alway's do strenght 1st because I WON'T do it after, or if I due it's lame effort. Just meTongue out.
2013-01-24 11:40 AM
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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

MikeTheBear - 2013-01-23 10:32 PM The following "rule" may contain some broscience but it's actually common sense if you think about it. Here is the rule: Do what requires the most technique and focus first when you are fresh. Which exercise would require more technique and focus: a heavy squat or a run? Answer: Heavy squat. Lose focus on this, allow your form to break down due to fatigue, and you're looking at an injury.

True, but, you pretty much need to take into account the run.  A 30 min run sure is a nice warm up to a strength training session.  An hour long run where you are running at just under your 10k pace, well, I might not want to throw some heavy weights around after. That being said, I always lift first.



2013-01-24 11:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

I do 5-10 minutes of cardio when I first get to the gym mostly to loosen up (and finish waking up at 6AM), then do my strength workout.

I really don't do cardio workouts at the gym unless the weather is horrible outside and I can't run or ride.

I also try schedule my gym days during the week and  away from long weekend runs or bike rides.

Mark



Edited by RedCorvette 2013-01-24 11:50 AM
2013-01-24 2:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio
bzgl40 - 2013-01-22 3:28 PM

Which one is most important to you to execute properly?  Do that one first.  Or do one in the morning, one in the evening.

ETA: properly is not the right word, you should execute both properly.  But which one do you want to maximize the benefit of? 

 

Priority is first.  Except for swimming.  My pool has a deep end and I'd get a cramp because I hit the weights just before the pool. 

 

If you are talking to bodybuilder types they almost always state that it's better to do cardio after lifting but bodybuilders aren't endurance athletes.

2013-01-24 2:40 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

I do a lift and swim workout often.  

I lift first because it would be too much of a pain in the butt to get out of the pool, squeeze a slightly damp towel dried body into a sports bra (this is TOUGH!) and workout shorts, do something with wet hair so it's out of my way for lifting, do the lifting, then have to strip down and get all wet again in the shower to wash off the chlorine.

When I get out of the pool I like to go right into the shower and then into loose comfy clothing and no bra if I'm just getting in the car to go home Wink

2013-01-24 10:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Strength Training before or after cardio

The most effective way to build strenght and improve you triathlon performance is to stay away from the weight room and focus on specific strenght work related to your sport as there is very little to not transfer from doing weight and improving performance in swim bike run.

 

Strength work in the water, :most effective way is some good paddle work done at 80% plus level of intensity.

Bike: big gear work at our a little under FTP watts will be a very specific way to build strength and get your legs stronger to ride faster.

Running: hill repeat done at 5km pace or even quicker. That is the most specific exercise you can find to prevent injury and build strength

always remember that one of the three concept of training is specificity..... and conventional weight training isnt the answer to improving in triathlon.

 

best of luck

 

 

 

 



Edited by jonnyo 2013-01-24 10:27 PM
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