General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Pool swim time vs OWS time Rss Feed  
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2013-02-05 8:08 AM

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Subject: Pool swim time vs OWS time

I did a 1k TT last night in the pool and was a little disappointed with the time at first glance with 1:48/100.

So I decided to do some digging into my races and an Olympic distance I did when I was BRAND NEW to tri's and didn't really know how to swim was 1:47/100. 

I quickly became VERY disappointed with my time.  I'm such a better swimmer now than what I was 2 years ago...but apparently I'm not!

How do you compare a swim TT with an OWS w/ wetsuit? Can you compare them? Or am I looking at an apple and an orange?



2013-02-05 8:19 AM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

Quite a few variables here.  An OWS, specifically during a race can have some significant drafting effects.  In my experience, the benefit of a wetsuit is fairly significant as well.  Put those two components together, and you can quickly see that OWS w/ wetsuit in race conditions can most certainly make you a bit faster. 

Add in the possibility of a taper prior to the race, so now you are feeling nice and fresh....and a bit faster. 

In my limited raced experience in the past three years, my OWS swim times have been about 10 seconds faster per 100 (on average) than what I train at in a pool.  I watch the time in the pool, but I'm more concerned about technique and perceived exertion.  The speed will come from the combination of those two.

2013-02-05 9:09 AM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

OWS can have a lot of variables.  The distance isnt always measured well.  Drafting.  Wetsuit.  Waves/current.

That said, my pool times and OWS times typically match up fairly closely. YMMV

2013-02-05 9:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
iA few things. OW distances are not always accurate so maybe the course was short. Secondly the wetsuit helps slower swimmers more than faster ones because they help you ride higher in the water, fast swimmers see less of a change than slower ones with respect to body position. Thirdly you probably suck at turns and push offs and are taking more than a second on each wall, this combined with a sandbagged push off will slow you even more.I swam 1 minute slower OW (non wetsuit) on a ITU course (so likely accurate) than I did in short course metres. 17:06 vs 18:01. The lack of turns / dive accounts for this.
2013-02-05 9:14 AM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

You need to stop trying to measure your swim fitness by using race results!

Triathlon swim courses are notoriously inaccurately measured so your 1:47 race pace may not actually have been 1:47, unless you happened to be measuring the swim by GPS...

Is your pool 25 yards, 25 meters, or 50 meters?  Often times the folks at the pool say it is 25 meters when it is really 25 yards.  If you think you're swimming in a 25 meter pool that is really 25 yards, you're a bit slower than you think you are...

You should measure your swim fitness by occasionally doing the same set in the pool and see how you're improving. Your 1,000 yard test is just fine, though personally I have a hard time counting laps accurately that long and being able to maintain a faster pace that long, so my test set is typically 15x100 or 20x100 on a challenging interval.  In your case you might want to do 15x100 on 2:00, or if that's too easy then on 1:50.  Your goal would be to work down to 15x100 on 1:45 or 1:40.

FWIW, I guestimate my expected wetsuit race pace based on my interval times.  If I can do 20X100 meters on 1:40, I figure I can do an Olympic distance swim comfortably at a 1:40 pace.  It doesn't always say that on the results, though.

I hope this helps!

Brian

 

2013-02-05 9:18 AM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

It's a triathlon where swimming only represents a fraction of the overall time you spend racing.  I would accept the same time as when I started if, when I got the end of the swim, I felt much fresher than back then on the bike and the run.

Speed gains in the pool are much harder to achieve because it's such a small part of the race but if you can deliver yourself to the saddle feeling like you've not done anything yet then that gives you far more opportunity to go faster on the bike - a much bigger portion of the race.

To address your actual question - I'm faster in OW which I put down to the additional buoyancy of the wetsuit lifting my legs and because I'm much fresher having tapered for the race.



2013-02-05 5:19 PM
in reply to: #4609190

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
famelec - 2013-02-05 8:14 AM

You need to stop trying to measure your swim fitness by using race results!

Triathlon swim courses are notoriously inaccurately measured so your 1:47 race pace may not actually have been 1:47, unless you happened to be measuring the swim by GPS...

Is your pool 25 yards, 25 meters, or 50 meters?  Often times the folks at the pool say it is 25 meters when it is really 25 yards.  If you think you're swimming in a 25 meter pool that is really 25 yards, you're a bit slower than you think you are...

You should measure your swim fitness by occasionally doing the same set in the pool and see how you're improving. Your 1,000 yard test is just fine, though personally I have a hard time counting laps accurately that long and being able to maintain a faster pace that long, so my test set is typically 15x100 or 20x100 on a challenging interval.  In your case you might want to do 15x100 on 2:00, or if that's too easy then on 1:50.  Your goal would be to work down to 15x100 on 1:45 or 1:40.

FWIW, I guestimate my expected wetsuit race pace based on my interval times.  If I can do 20X100 meters on 1:40, I figure I can do an Olympic distance swim comfortably at a 1:40 pace.  It doesn't always say that on the results, though.

I hope this helps!

Brian

 



Great post.
2013-02-05 5:22 PM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
Apples and oranges
2013-02-05 5:52 PM
in reply to: #4610158

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
AdventureBear - 2013-02-05 5:19 PM
famelec - 2013-02-05 8:14 AM

You need to stop trying to measure your swim fitness by using race results!

Triathlon swim courses are notoriously inaccurately measured so your 1:47 race pace may not actually have been 1:47, unless you happened to be measuring the swim by GPS...

Is your pool 25 yards, 25 meters, or 50 meters?  Often times the folks at the pool say it is 25 meters when it is really 25 yards.  If you think you're swimming in a 25 meter pool that is really 25 yards, you're a bit slower than you think you are...

You should measure your swim fitness by occasionally doing the same set in the pool and see how you're improving. Your 1,000 yard test is just fine, though personally I have a hard time counting laps accurately that long and being able to maintain a faster pace that long, so my test set is typically 15x100 or 20x100 on a challenging interval.  In your case you might want to do 15x100 on 2:00, or if that's too easy then on 1:50.  Your goal would be to work down to 15x100 on 1:45 or 1:40.

FWIW, I guestimate my expected wetsuit race pace based on my interval times.  If I can do 20X100 meters on 1:40, I figure I can do an Olympic distance swim comfortably at a 1:40 pace.  It doesn't always say that on the results, though.

I hope this helps!

Brian

 

Great post.

Yep.

To the OP: Looks like you are doing a good job of using the logs and your garmin to track your swim times at the pool.  I would compare those if anything.

 

2013-02-05 5:57 PM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

Never assume the distance is accurate.  I mean...at one sprint, I watched the guys set up the buoys.  They were lifeguards on jet skis...not race officials.  I heard the race director tell them...just drive out about 300 yards that way for the first buoy, then put another one the same distance over there.  He was simply pointing with his finger...it's not like he gave them a GPS and coordinates.

Some races will take the time to verify their swim courses...most smaller races don't have the time or resources.  Heck...some of them don't even accurately measure the bike or run courses.

2013-02-06 2:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
You have to also consider where abouts the time is taken for completing that leg.I am pretty green to triathlon, but my first swim the timing pad was on the ramp just after the swim and the second one was after a 200m run to transition after the swim.The tide also has alot tomdo with it. Despite the location of the timing pad in the second one I did the 750m in about 10mins, but it was tide assisted.As a pool swimmer, I find the open water plays with my head, so my OWS are a bit slower. I am also not used to wetsuit wearing so find them restrictive atm. I'd agree do TT in the pool and repeat those to compare your fitness level.


2013-02-06 4:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

ChrisM - 2013-02-05 7:22 PM Apples and oranges

This^^

 

2013-02-06 8:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

I'm always slower in OWS vs the pool - at least that's what my race times tell me.

 

2013-02-06 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
famelec - 2013-02-05 9:14 AM

Triathlon swim courses are notoriously inaccurately measured

In my experience if they are right it was happenstance.   The only way to judge your swim times in an OWS is really by placement amongst the masses.

2013-02-06 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time
I hear that doing flipturns will speed up your pool swim time.
2013-02-07 11:34 AM
in reply to: #4609076

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Subject: RE: Pool swim time vs OWS time

Everyone in the world is slower in open water due to the elements (waves, currents, temperature, other swimmers, etc..). Also, as already stated, very few open water courses are actually the distance advertised. Time is not a really great indicator of your progress and comparing your pace between the two  is just going to confuse and frustrate you.

Something to consider is how your technique changes between your pool and open water swims. I see many athletes that completely change their technique when battling others in open water. The most common errors are swimming with the head out of the water and poor navigation. The bottom line is that the closer your open water technique is to your pool technique and the better you navigate, the faster your open water swims will be. 

If you want to see this in action, swim a pool workout sighting at the same frequency and duration (how long you have your head out to sight) as you typically do in a race. See what that does to your pace. Throw in some poor navigation and the elements described above and you can see how it will impact your open water speed.

A good thing to work on is only sighting every 10 strokes or so and quickly lifting your head in coordination with your breathing stroke (either before or after). Take a "mental snapshot" of what you need to see, process it with your face in the water and make any course corrections necessary. You can also do some open water workouts where you don't sight but every 50 strokes or so and get a feel for how straight you swim. If you know you always veer to the right, you can make that correction to your technique and become a better navigator.

Best of luck!



Edited by Boost Swimming 2013-02-07 11:34 AM


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