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2013-02-08 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
mr2tony - 2013-02-08 2:39 PM

And they used the word `nappy.' I hated that word, more so when Americans used it. I was all `IT'S A DIAPER!'



And I used to giggle a lot when the British Girls would call an eraser a rubber. "I've made a mistake, I need a rubber".....and I was all like "I didn't know it was this type of party"




2013-02-08 3:01 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

bradleyd3 - 2013-02-08 12:47 PM
mr2tony - 2013-02-08 2:39 PM And they used the word `nappy.' I hated that word, more so when Americans used it. I was all `IT'S A DIAPER!'
And I used to giggle a lot when the British Girls would call an eraser a rubber. "I've made a mistake, I need a rubber".....and I was all like "I didn't know it was this type of party"

At that point its to late.

2013-02-08 3:03 PM
in reply to: #4614847

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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Sous - 2013-02-08 12:22 PM
Kido - 2013-02-08 3:11 PM
trinnas - 2013-02-08 12:06 PM

I wasn't trying to say that racism does not exist but that judging one to be "not from around here" based on appearence is not inherently racist.

I know what you ment.  And I even agree.  Sometimes the racist card gets thrown around because it's easy to use and gets attention.

Again, for example.  A homeless guy asked me for a handout in Chicago and I said no (African American).  He started to yell after me and accuse me of being a racist.  BTW, I was hold hands with my african american wife!  I obviously wasn't being racist, I just dind't want to give bum my money!

I'm just wanted to make clear that there is probably more subtle types of racism still out there than most people might realize.  But there are some true false accusations.  Hey, I might just not like someone becuase they are simply a D-bag!  Not that they are a D-bag of a particular race...  But they earned that dislike from me, not born with it - if that makes sense.

didn't you just kinda do the same thing?

What do you mean?  I don't strangers money...

2013-02-08 3:23 PM
in reply to: #4614930

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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Kido - 2013-02-08 4:03 PM
Sous - 2013-02-08 12:22 PM
Kido - 2013-02-08 3:11 PM
trinnas - 2013-02-08 12:06 PM

I wasn't trying to say that racism does not exist but that judging one to be "not from around here" based on appearence is not inherently racist.

I know what you ment.  And I even agree.  Sometimes the racist card gets thrown around because it's easy to use and gets attention.

Again, for example.  A homeless guy asked me for a handout in Chicago and I said no (African American).  He started to yell after me and accuse me of being a racist.  BTW, I was hold hands with my african american wife!  I obviously wasn't being racist, I just dind't want to give bum my money!

I'm just wanted to make clear that there is probably more subtle types of racism still out there than most people might realize.  But there are some true false accusations.  Hey, I might just not like someone becuase they are simply a D-bag!  Not that they are a D-bag of a particular race...  But they earned that dislike from me, not born with it - if that makes sense.

didn't you just kinda do the same thing?

What do you mean?  I don't strangers money...

Not sure what your retort is supposed to mean, but what I meant was that in making the statement "I just didn't want to give a bum my money" you sort of did the same thing the cabbie did.  Made a judgmental/derogatory/"racist" comment about someone simply based on their appearance. 

2013-02-08 3:34 PM
in reply to: #4614958

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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Sous - 2013-02-08 1:23 PM

Not sure what your retort is supposed to mean, but what I meant was that in making the statement "I just didn't want to give a bum my money" you sort of did the same thing the cabbie did.  Made a judgmental/derogatory/"racist" comment about someone simply based on their appearance. 

What are you saying?  I'm a hypocrite? 

I made the judgment because I was accousted/verbally assaulted in the streets for money then screamed at, cursed at, and called a racest. 

That's the same as what the cabbie did when he started making rude comments to someone who did nothing to them other than NOT say thank you?

That's really the same to you?  Ok, have fun with that.  I'm busted.  I'm a hypocrite.

I don't buy magazines or candy bars from people that come to my door because I don't like buying from them.  Guess that's the same too.  I'm a doortodoorsalesman-est...  Guilty!

2013-02-08 5:28 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Sous - 2013-02-08 2:23 PM
Kido - 2013-02-08 4:03 PM
Sous - 2013-02-08 12:22 PM
Kido - 2013-02-08 3:11 PM
trinnas - 2013-02-08 12:06 PM

I wasn't trying to say that racism does not exist but that judging one to be "not from around here" based on appearence is not inherently racist.

I know what you ment.  And I even agree.  Sometimes the racist card gets thrown around because it's easy to use and gets attention.

Again, for example.  A homeless guy asked me for a handout in Chicago and I said no (African American).  He started to yell after me and accuse me of being a racist.  BTW, I was hold hands with my african american wife!  I obviously wasn't being racist, I just dind't want to give bum my money!

I'm just wanted to make clear that there is probably more subtle types of racism still out there than most people might realize.  But there are some true false accusations.  Hey, I might just not like someone becuase they are simply a D-bag!  Not that they are a D-bag of a particular race...  But they earned that dislike from me, not born with it - if that makes sense.

didn't you just kinda do the same thing?

What do you mean?  I don't strangers money...

Not sure what your retort is supposed to mean, but what I meant was that in making the statement "I just didn't want to give a bum my money" you sort of did the same thing the cabbie did.  Made a judgmental/derogatory/"racist" comment about someone simply based on their appearance. 

So when a guy is bumming money from you... it isn't OK to call him a bum? Undecided



2013-02-08 8:09 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

growing up in NYC, playing/coaching basketball and for other reasons, I travel into African American neighborhoods often. I'm white, 6'6 245lbs so it's not like I'm some person who invites trouble. Throughout my life, I have had black people question why I'm there. "you some kind of cop?", stuff like that. Couple of months ago a punk walked up to me and asked me "what the F I was doing in this neighborhood, M-Fer". The threat was not implied- it was overt.  The person I was visiting told me to be careful, get out of the car, come in to his office, don't linger and get home as soon as I was done with my business. I was there on election day and a woman told me "you better hope Obama wins today, or you aint gonna want to come back tom'w"...

I've been called white boy, whitey; honkey-to my face and behind my back. One time I was the only white guy on a team and the other guys, who I think were friends of mine, referred to me as their "white N--er (N-word)". They always warned me not to stray too far without them. I didn't do anything to anyone to warrant any danger or animosity, but it was there. If I got robbed or worse,  no one would utter racism, they would tell me I was stupid for being in that neighborhood.

to the OP, I don't think this instance was "horrific". I bet your friend has seen a lot worse. I bet if you went to Pakistain -you'd be treated a lot worse.  I got on a train in Tokyo and I this older couple were staring at me like I was some freak- they didn't even try to hide their fascination with the tall gaijin.  Same trip,I went for a swim in a local pool. The lifeguard told me jump in the lane and and share the lane with the guy already in it The other guy was Japanese. He went in to the other lane which already had 3 people in it- so now there were four Japanese swimming in one lane while I had my own lane. Amusing? yes. Horrific, no.

2013-02-09 2:07 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
big joe - 2013-02-08 7:09 PM

growing up in NYC, playing/coaching basketball and for other reasons, I travel into African American neighborhoods often. I'm white, 6'6 245lbs so it's not like I'm some person who invites trouble. Throughout my life, I have had black people question why I'm there. "you some kind of cop?", stuff like that. Couple of months ago a punk walked up to me and asked me "what the F I was doing in this neighborhood, M-Fer". The threat was not implied- it was overt.  The person I was visiting told me to be careful, get out of the car, come in to his office, don't linger and get home as soon as I was done with my business. I was there on election day and a woman told me "you better hope Obama wins today, or you aint gonna want to come back tom'w"...

I've been called white boy, whitey; honkey-to my face and behind my back. One time I was the only white guy on a team and the other guys, who I think were friends of mine, referred to me as their "white N--er (N-word)". They always warned me not to stray too far without them. I didn't do anything to anyone to warrant any danger or animosity, but it was there. If I got robbed or worse,  no one would utter racism, they would tell me I was stupid for being in that neighborhood.

to the OP, I don't think this instance was "horrific". I bet your friend has seen a lot worse. I bet if you went to Pakistain -you'd be treated a lot worse.  I got on a train in Tokyo and I this older couple were staring at me like I was some freak- they didn't even try to hide their fascination with the tall gaijin.  Same trip,I went for a swim in a local pool. The lifeguard told me jump in the lane and and share the lane with the guy already in it The other guy was Japanese. He went in to the other lane which already had 3 people in it- so now there were four Japanese swimming in one lane while I had my own lane. Amusing? yes. Horrific, no.

Ya, but were you doing flip turns?

2013-02-09 10:30 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
When I married a non white (dutch speaking asian) man from the carribean, I sure learned fast that the US still had a long way to go. I was at first shocked, and I continue to be dismayed by both the blatant and subtle ways my husband is treated differently than I am. He speakers perfect English, with a better vocabulary than many Americans, but with an accent. While the bulk of his experience in America has been overwelmingly positive, there have been a few times I have turned to him and apologized on behalf of my race and country.

A blatant issue At the bank: When I take HIS paycheck to the bank to deposit into HIS account when he is out of town, without a signature on the back, I have no trouble depositing it and the funds are available the next day, even though I have no standing on that account. When HE takes it in to the same branch, signs in front of the teller, they tell him that they need to put a 9 business day hold on the check. This has been recurrent and when we go down to discuss it with the bank manager, they make excuses. But it is the same range of dollar amount, the same employer, the same tellers. I don't think the tellers or the manager even know that they are biased.

On the more subtle front, I see women in shifting malls shift their purses away from him as he passes. He is stopped more going through airport security. When we bought a moped to drive around in a small town, he was pulled over three times in a week by various cops for no real reason. I, who actually drove it more regularly, was never pulled over

I understand the OP reaction.
2013-02-10 7:50 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

bootygirl - 2013-02-09 10:30 PM 

A blatant issue At the bank: When I take HIS paycheck to the bank to deposit into HIS account when he is out of town, without a signature on the back, I have no trouble depositing it and the funds are available the next day, even though I have no standing on that account. When HE takes it in to the same branch, signs in front of the teller, they tell him that they need to put a 9 business day hold on the check. This has been recurrent and when we go down to discuss it with the bank manager, they make excuses. But it is the same range of dollar amount, the same employer, the same tellers. I don't think the tellers or the manager even know that they are biased.


I would escalate this until I got a satisfactory answer, going through the regulatory/compliance department of the bank if necessary. Banks have very specific regulations governing the availability of funds that have (of course) nothing to do with race. 

2013-02-10 7:55 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

do you agree with the OP that his encounter was "horrific"?

do you think that many non-whites in this country and in other countries are equally prejudiced or biased against whites? I most certainly do. But, I don't let  it bother me one bit, because I have so many great relationships with non-whites who are not biased or prejudiced.

 



2013-02-10 10:06 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
big joe - 2013-02-10 7:55 AM

do you agree with the OP that his encounter was "horrific"?

do you think that many non-whites in this country and in other countries are equally prejudiced or biased against whites? I most certainly do. But, I don't let  it bother me one bit, because I have so many great relationships with non-whites who are not biased or prejudiced.

 

Would I use the term "horrific" for what was described? probably not. But the event and story was his and it is not for me to judge how he felt or how he describes his reaction to events he witnessed. I understand the shock factor when you feel smacked in the face by something you didn't think really happened anymore.A detail I left out of the bank story is that the teller was Hispanic. For all I know, the bias is not against my husband as a man of color but "for" me, the white lady.
2013-02-10 10:50 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

A friend  was at our local casino's black jack table over the weekend and a couple outright told everyone they refused to sit next him because he's Asian.

A long way to go, for sure.

2013-02-10 6:27 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
lisac957 - 2013-02-10 10:50 AM

A friend  was at our local casino's black jack table over the weekend and a couple outright told everyone they refused to sit next him because he's Asian.

A long way to go, for sure.

 My BIL will play the " Don't pass" line when an Asian shooter has the dice. He says they are unlucky and claims to have won a ton of money at the craps table this way. The few times I've seen him use this strategy, he never came out ahead.

2013-02-10 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
mrbbrad - 2013-02-09 3:40 AM
jobaxas - 2013-02-07 9:17 PM
Dan-L - 2013-02-08 12:55 PM

Ironically I went to a diversity conference tonight. I'm a white, male, Londoner and the conference was mainly about ensure the City of London makes better use of its talent pool which is ethnically and gender diverse.  Fascinating and troubling at the same time.

What followed was horrific.  I got a taxi across town with an Pakistani Brit (PB) and a Scottish woman.  We got out of the taxi and my PB mate paid.  He handed the (white male) cabbie a tenner and collected his change while talking to me.  The cabbie then shouts "in this country we say thank you"

Now my mate may have not said thank you and i wouldn't have a problem with the cabbie pulling him on it in general but I saw red at the mention of "in this country" and really tore into him.  The cab driver shouted some more abuse at me and drove off.

What amazed me as much as anything was that my PB friend wasn't bothered - just another example for the portfolio whereas that's the first time I've ever encountered racism like that first hand.  I'm really upset for reasons I haven't reflected on properly yet but I really thought we were passed this and I've argued the point to my PB friend often enough.  I guess I've completely lost that debate.

Just a rant really but I'm gutted.  I wish I'd have got his licence plate or something but I was too angry to think straight.  I've never seen anything first hand like that in my life and I hope I don't again.

The saddest part of the story.  I hate that racism of this kind is just accepted. 

I'm from Essex (outside of London) I know this is the norm for a lot of people  I now live in Australia where i find people to be very openly racist against anyone who isn't an Aussie - including us POMs.  It's very tongue in cheek and I can generally laugh it off.  What makes me really chuckle is that only the indigenous people are truly Australian a lot of everyone else is descended from English and other European criminals...

Good evening, I'm from Essex
In case you couldn't tell
My given name is Dickie, I come from Billericay
And I'm doing very well

Billericay Dickie!!!  We so need a like button on this board!

2013-02-10 7:26 PM
in reply to: #4613622

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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Dan-L - 2013-02-07 7:55 PM

Ironically I went to a diversity conference tonight. I'm a white, male, Londoner and the conference was mainly about ensure the City of London makes better use of its talent pool which is ethnically and gender diverse.  Fascinating and troubling at the same time.

What followed was horrific.  I got a taxi across town with an Pakistani Brit (PB) and a Scottish woman.  We got out of the taxi and my PB mate paid.  He handed the (white male) cabbie a tenner and collected his change while talking to me.  The cabbie then shouts "in this country we say thank you"

Now my mate may have not said thank you and i wouldn't have a problem with the cabbie pulling him on it in general but I saw red at the mention of "in this country" and really tore into him.  The cab driver shouted some more abuse at me and drove off.

What amazed me as much as anything was that my PB friend wasn't bothered - just another example for the portfolio whereas that's the first time I've ever encountered racism like that first hand.  I'm really upset for reasons I haven't reflected on properly yet but I really thought we were passed this and I've argued the point to my PB friend often enough.  I guess I've completely lost that debate.

Just a rant really but I'm gutted.  I wish I'd have got his licence plate or something but I was too angry to think straight.  I've never seen anything first hand like that in my life and I hope I don't again.



It must suck to wake up in the morning looking for reasons to be offended.


"Horrific?" Wow. And..."racism?" You have some flawed definitions. Maybe take a lead from your friend?


2013-02-10 7:50 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

Last night we went out to eat after the swim meet.....there was only one server wearing a head-net and gloves....the only black server.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought of this thread and laughed to myself.  

I suppose I should be outraged.  

It was strange for sure. I have never seen a server ANYWHERE with a head-net and rubber gloves.



Edited by Left Brain 2013-02-10 7:51 PM
2013-02-11 7:06 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand

bossfan - 2013-02-11 1:26 AM It must suck to wake up in the morning looking for reasons to be offended. "Horrific?" Wow. And..."racism?" You have some flawed definitions. Maybe take a lead from your friend?

Yeah, I would imagine it would.  You're entitled not to agree and I put in on here to get some broader opinions and comments but even considering them all, I'm still comfortable with using both those words. 

I don't mind being 'offended'.  Being 'offended' is just a feeling, it doesn't hurt.  I do mind that people have to live in country and risk the possibility or even accept the fact that they are going to have to suffer abuse because of the colour of their skin. 

2013-02-11 8:13 PM
in reply to: #4617044

90 miles south of Titletown, USA
Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Dan-L - 2013-02-11 7:06 AM

bossfan - 2013-02-11 1:26 AM It must suck to wake up in the morning looking for reasons to be offended. "Horrific?" Wow. And..."racism?" You have some flawed definitions. Maybe take a lead from your friend?

Yeah, I would imagine it would.  You're entitled not to agree and I put in on here to get some broader opinions and comments but even considering them all, I'm still comfortable with using both those words. 

I don't mind being 'offended'.  Being 'offended' is just a feeling, it doesn't hurt.  I do mind that people have to live in country and risk the possibility or even accept the fact that they are going to have to suffer abuse because of the colour of their skin. 



I just wish that I had the ability, that, seemingly, you have, to read minds.
2013-02-11 8:22 PM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
Dan-L - 2013-02-11 6:06 AM

bossfan - 2013-02-11 1:26 AM It must suck to wake up in the morning looking for reasons to be offended. "Horrific?" Wow. And..."racism?" You have some flawed definitions. Maybe take a lead from your friend?

I don't mind being 'offended'.  Being 'offended' is just a feeling, it doesn't hurt.  I do mind that people have to live in country and risk the possibility or even accept the fact that they are going to have to suffer abuse because of the colour of their skin. 

And not that I generally don't agree... what your original post was was an "offense". Had the cabbie refused to pick him up because of his skin, then that is action. But a verbal comment is not abuse, it's just "offensive". Words don't hurt right?

Or if the cabbie was just verbally abusive to you... for no reason and had nothing to do with anything, then what is the difference between a rude cabbie and a rude cabbie?

2013-02-12 6:11 AM
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Subject: RE: seeing racism first hand
bossfan - 2013-02-12 2:13 AM
Dan-L - 2013-02-11 7:06 AM

bossfan - 2013-02-11 1:26 AM It must suck to wake up in the morning looking for reasons to be offended. "Horrific?" Wow. And..."racism?" You have some flawed definitions. Maybe take a lead from your friend?

Yeah, I would imagine it would.  You're entitled not to agree and I put in on here to get some broader opinions and comments but even considering them all, I'm still comfortable with using both those words. 

I don't mind being 'offended'.  Being 'offended' is just a feeling, it doesn't hurt.  I do mind that people have to live in country and risk the possibility or even accept the fact that they are going to have to suffer abuse because of the colour of their skin. 

I just wish that I had the ability, that, seemingly, you have, to read minds.

Just for fun and in case I get to learn something, I've tried to read your response without the attitude and snarkasm (just made that one up, you can have it for free). 

But the point it, this guy is Asian looking.  The line "we say thanks in this country" can only have been delivered because the cabbie thought he was a foreigner based on the colour of his skin.  It was that fact that drove the behaviour and comments and it's that part I find unacceptable.

If I'd have done it, he wouldn't have mentioned 'in this country' - can you see the difference?



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