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2013-02-11 12:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
You "Gain Speed" by building muscle.  You "Lessen Resistance" by buying gear. That is an important point.


2013-02-11 12:34 PM
in reply to: #4617575

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

lifejustice - 2013-02-11 1:21 PM You "Gain Speed" by building muscle.  You "Lessen Resistance" by buying gear. That is an important point.

If I do nothing else but lessen resistance, then I gain speed.  Ipso facto.

2013-02-11 1:08 PM
in reply to: #4617591

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
JohnnyKay - 2013-02-11 10:34 AM

lifejustice - 2013-02-11 1:21 PM You "Gain Speed" by building muscle.  You "Lessen Resistance" by buying gear. That is an important point.

If I do nothing else but lessen resistance, then I gain speed.  Ipso facto.

Johnny makes a good distinction but since there is always a Punctilious person around he should change it to Gain Force and Lessen Resistance.What's really annoying about this whole thread is the OP made it clear that he didnt want to hear the bigger engine comments but the usual suspects had to pile on anyway.Read what The Bear said and move on.
2013-02-11 1:16 PM
in reply to: #4617591

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

Incorrect: By lessening your resistance, you just better reach your POTENTIAL power.   You can not exceed potential power by lessening resistance.   

Building strength is the only way to increases Potential power.  Lessening resistance allows you to get closer to it.

In short, the ideal biker will have infinitely strong power with infinitely minimal resistance.

Both are equally important.

What does that all mean?

My little engineer legs can only push 176 Watts over an hour.  I am riding in class with other riders who push 290 Watts over the same hour.  No matter how aero I get and how finely tuned my equipment... I will most likely not ever beat them in a time trial, unless a caveat enters the scenario.

2013-02-11 1:19 PM
in reply to: #4617658

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 3:16 PM

Building strength is the only way to increases Potential power.


Incorrect - strength has no correlation to aerobic power output.

Shane
2013-02-11 1:20 PM
in reply to: #4617658

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 2:16 PM

Incorrect: By lessening your resistance, you just better reach your POTENTIAL power.   You can not exceed potential power by lessening resistance.   

Building strength is the only way to increases Potential power.  Lessening resistance allows you to get closer to it.

In short, the ideal biker will have infinitely strong power with infinitely minimal resistance.

Both are equally important.

What does that all mean?

My little engineer legs can only push 176 Watts over an hour.  I am riding in class with other riders who push 290 Watts over the same hour.  No matter how aero I get and how finely tuned my equipment... I will most likely not ever beat them in a time trial, unless a caveat enters the scenario.

Wrong.  Watts/cda can beat out watts/kg in a Tri/TT.



2013-02-11 1:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 1:16 PM

Incorrect: By lessening your resistance, you just better reach your POTENTIAL power.   You can not exceed potential power by lessening resistance.   

Building strength is the only way to increases Potential power.  Lessening resistance allows you to get closer to it.

In short, the ideal biker will have infinitely strong power with infinitely minimal resistance.

Both are equally important.

What does that all mean?

My little engineer legs can only push 176 Watts over an hour.  I am riding in class with other riders who push 290 Watts over the same hour.  No matter how aero I get and how finely tuned my equipment... I will most likely not ever beat them in a time trial, unless a caveat enters the scenario.

With the biggest "caveat" being the cycling equipment used, and the resulting "resistance." Pushing 290 watts sitting up on a knobby tired MTB may not be as fast as 176 watts on a well-positioned aerodynamic tri bike setup.

Edited by the bear 2013-02-11 1:26 PM
2013-02-11 1:31 PM
in reply to: #4616853

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood.

I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.  

This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.

edited to add:  I wasn't going to go that far, but now I am in the seat where I have to defend it.



Edited by lifejustice 2013-02-11 1:35 PM
2013-02-11 1:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 2:31 PM

I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood.

I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.  

This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.

Talk about semantics...if I slow down less than I did before, then I am faster.

2013-02-11 1:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 1:31 PM

I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood.

I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.  

This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.

edited to add:  I wasn't going to go that far, but now I am in the seat where I have to defend it.

Think I have an idea of where you're going with that, but could you elaborate some to be sure?



Edited by brigby1 2013-02-11 1:39 PM
2013-02-11 1:38 PM
in reply to: #4617682

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 2:31 PM

I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood.

This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.

Last I checked, nobody here measures how "fast" they are in a vaccum.  If you lessen resistance, you achieve a higher velocity.  Is that better for you? 



2013-02-11 1:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

I don't understand why you are arguing with me when I said quite clearly that BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

Why am I being argued with?  I don't get it.

2013-02-11 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 1:40 PM

I don't understand why you are arguing with me when I said quite clearly that BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

Why am I being argued with?  I don't get it.

no one is arguing, they're just correcting your incorrectness. (Where's the semantics font?)
2013-02-11 1:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 2:40 PM

I don't understand why you are arguing with me when I said quite clearly that BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

Why am I being argued with?  I don't get it.

You are imposing your definition of "FASTER" where pretty much everyone else here understands that we are talking about observed, measured speed on the bicycle.  That is, what's important a race.  In the context being discussed, lowering resistance makes you faster--your spedometer will show a higher speed and you will reach the finish line FASTER.

 

edit:  I have to add that this thread became infinitely more entertaining than I thought it had the potential to become.  Did we add conversational strength or reduce resistance?



Edited by JohnnyKay 2013-02-11 1:49 PM
2013-02-11 1:48 PM
in reply to: #4616853

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
I am going to go slightly different direction. Get a very well fit tri suit. So many times I see people wearing very baggy bike jerseys. They are almost like parachutes.
2013-02-11 1:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 3:31 PM

I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood.

I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.


I'm confused; if I ride 40km at 1:05 on my road bike and then ride the same course, at the same power in 59:59, have I not gone faster?

This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.


Can you expand on what you mean?

Shane


2013-02-11 1:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

gsmacleod - 2013-02-11 2:48 PM
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 3:31 PM I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood. I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.
I'm confused; if I ride 40km at 1:05 on my road bike and then ride the same course, at the same power in 59:59, have I not gone faster?
This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.
Can you expand on what you mean? Shane

No Shane - you slowed down less.  Try to keep up!

2013-02-11 2:04 PM
in reply to: #4616853

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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

I think we should make the phrase "slow down less" a BT punch line.

2013-02-11 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
The OP doesn't give a carp about resistance or speed in the absolute. He wants to get to the finish line in less time using the same power output. He wants to know what to buy to make that happen. He got his answer. Yay!
2013-02-11 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?

kingofbanff - 2013-02-11 3:05 PM The OP doesn't give a carp about resistance or speed in the absolute. He wants to get to the finish line in less time using the same power output. He wants to know what to buy to make that happen. He got his answer. Yay!

The OP had his answer in the first post not made by said OP.  Got a few extra reasonable suggestions after that, but we pretty much decided to ignore the OP back on page 1.  Viva la internet!

2013-02-11 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
GoFaster - 2013-02-11 1:50 PM

gsmacleod - 2013-02-11 2:48 PM
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 3:31 PM I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood. I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.
I'm confused; if I ride 40km at 1:05 on my road bike and then ride the same course, at the same power in 59:59, have I not gone faster?
This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.
Can you expand on what you mean? Shane

No Shane - you slowed down less.  Try to keep up!

Try to fall behind less.



2013-02-11 2:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
brigby1 - 2013-02-11 3:16 PM
GoFaster - 2013-02-11 1:50 PM

gsmacleod - 2013-02-11 2:48 PM
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 3:31 PM I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood. I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.
I'm confused; if I ride 40km at 1:05 on my road bike and then ride the same course, at the same power in 59:59, have I not gone faster?
This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.
Can you expand on what you mean? Shane

No Shane - you slowed down less.  Try to keep up!

Try to fall behind less.

I'm interested in this "slow down less" concept and I'm curious if it's the same as "encounter less resistance". I'm not one to back down from confrontations, so rather than running trying to encounter less resistance, should I start talking trash at the wind until it backs down out of submission? Or maybe better yet, recruiting the wind so it always comes from behind me, no matter which direction I'm pointed? 

2013-02-11 3:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
fisherman76 - 2013-02-11 3:30 PM
brigby1 - 2013-02-11 3:16 PM
GoFaster - 2013-02-11 1:50 PM

gsmacleod - 2013-02-11 2:48 PM
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 3:31 PM I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood. I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.
I'm confused; if I ride 40km at 1:05 on my road bike and then ride the same course, at the same power in 59:59, have I not gone faster?
This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.
Can you expand on what you mean? Shane

No Shane - you slowed down less.  Try to keep up!

Try to fall behind less.

I'm interested in this "slow down less" concept and I'm curious if it's the same as "encounter less resistance". I'm not one to back down from confrontations, so rather than running trying to encounter less resistance, should I start talking trash at the wind until it backs down out of submission? Or maybe better yet, recruiting the wind so it always comes from behind me, no matter which direction I'm pointed? 

I have developed the ability to always have a head wind on out and back courses. Now I just need to refine that technique and turn it into a constant tail wind.

2013-02-11 3:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
lifejustice - 2013-02-11 11:31 AM

I'm sorry...but lessening resistance does not make one "Faster".  It makes one "Slow down less".  these are 2 different concepts that are often misunderstood.

I am listening to the OP's question.  Making one FASTER does not come from reducing resistance.  

This isn't my opinion.  This is Physics.

edited to add:  I wasn't going to go that far, but now I am in the seat where I have to defend it.

Resistance is futile.

2013-02-11 4:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Best equipment to gain speed on bike?
Wow read this post and thought i was on st not bt for a second
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