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2013-03-06 2:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
good QBs are hard to come by though...Steelers let some good defensive players and WRs go, but a QB does make it tough. I think Ben restructured and a bunch of other players took the home team discount to try to remain competitive. That's the only way it can work.I'm just so thankful for a cap. It's why baseball will no longer ever be more popular than football. Teams can be fairly competitive since there is more of a level playing field. Can you imagine if football was like baseball in that regard?


2013-03-06 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 9:02 AM I have no disdain for Joe Flacco. He seems like a good guy and, as I've stated often, an above-average QB. I just wouldn't break the bank for him in the way the Ravens did. I think it's going to create problems, you don't, fair enough. I'm just glad it's not my team spending money like Baltimore. I'm glad you got your Superbowl win because I think it will be a long time until your next one. I prefer my team structure its deals to remain competitive year after year. As we all know, health and luck have a lot to do with who wins it all. IMO, I would rather give my team a shot, even a weaker one, every year rather than put all my eggs in one basket for a brief window of opportunity. But to each his own. That said, I know my Packers are about to break the bank for Aaron Rodgers. It will be interesting to compare that deal with Joe Flacco's-- and their production-- as time goes by.

I agree with everything you said in principle.  But I still don't see how Flacco's contract stops Baltimore from being competitive year after year.  His contract is set up so that they can still put players around him.  Much more so than the other high paid QBs in the league.  And he'll need those players, because I don't think Flacco is that good. 

2013-2015 cap numbers for the following QBs in millions of dollars (responsible for the last 11 super bowls)

Joe Flacco $6.8, $14.8, $14.5
Tom Brady $13.8, $14.8, $14.0
Eli Manning $20.85, $20.4, $19.75
Aaron Rodgers $9.75, $11.0, FA
Peyton Manning $20.0, $20.0, $19.0
Drew Bress, $17.4, $18.4, $26.4
Ben Roethlisberger $13.6, $17.9, $17.4

Other QBs of note
Ryan Fitzpatrick $10.5, $10.5, $10.4
Matt Ryan $12.0, FA
Matt Stafford $20.8, $19.3, $17.2
Sam Bradford $12.6, $17.6, $16.6
Matt Cassel $9.8, $11.1
Kevin Kolb $13.5, $12.5, $12.5

2013-03-06 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens

scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 2:02 PM  I'm glad you got your Superbowl win because I think it will be a long time until your next one. I prefer my team structure its deals to remain competitive year after year. As we all know, health and luck have a lot to do with who wins it all. IMO, I would rather give my team a shot, even a weaker one, every year rather than put all my eggs in one basket for a brief window of opportunity.

Huh?  How does the Flacco contract keep the Ravens from being competitive year after year (like the last five years...a playoff win every year, 9 total, including 3 AFC Championship games and the Super Bowl win)?  The Ravens have consistently let players that they thought were overvalued and/or not integral to the team's success to walk (Grubbs, Ad Thomas, Bart Scott).

The Ravens should be favored to win a weaker AFC North division next year and will likely make the playoffs regardless.  Once in the playoffs, they're a really tough out, and a lot of that (at least recently) has been because of Flacco.

2013-03-06 3:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
I just want to know if Flacco is going to cut Rahim Moore a check. I figure that him slipping and then mistiming his jump put about 3 million a year extra in Flacco's pocket.
2013-03-06 4:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
tri808 - 2013-03-06 3:11 PM

scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 9:02 AM I have no disdain for Joe Flacco. He seems like a good guy and, as I've stated often, an above-average QB. I just wouldn't break the bank for him in the way the Ravens did. I think it's going to create problems, you don't, fair enough. I'm just glad it's not my team spending money like Baltimore. I'm glad you got your Superbowl win because I think it will be a long time until your next one. I prefer my team structure its deals to remain competitive year after year. As we all know, health and luck have a lot to do with who wins it all. IMO, I would rather give my team a shot, even a weaker one, every year rather than put all my eggs in one basket for a brief window of opportunity. But to each his own. That said, I know my Packers are about to break the bank for Aaron Rodgers. It will be interesting to compare that deal with Joe Flacco's-- and their production-- as time goes by.

I agree with everything you said in principle.  But I still don't see how Flacco's contract stops Baltimore from being competitive year after year.  His contract is set up so that they can still put players around him.  Much more so than the other high paid QBs in the league.  And he'll need those players, because I don't think Flacco is that good. 

2013-2015 cap numbers for the following QBs in millions of dollars (responsible for the last 11 super bowls)

Joe Flacco $6.8, $14.8, $14.5
Tom Brady $13.8, $14.8, $14.0
Eli Manning $20.85, $20.4, $19.75
Aaron Rodgers $9.75, $11.0, FA
Peyton Manning $20.0, $20.0, $19.0
Drew Bress, $17.4, $18.4, $26.4
Ben Roethlisberger $13.6, $17.9, $17.4

Other QBs of note
Ryan Fitzpatrick $10.5, $10.5, $10.4
Matt Ryan $12.0, FA
Matt Stafford $20.8, $19.3, $17.2
Sam Bradford $12.6, $17.6, $16.6
Matt Cassel $9.8, $11.1
Kevin Kolb $13.5, $12.5, $12.5




Yeah, you're kind of bringing me around on this. From a salary cap standpoint, it's not that bad for the Ravens.

I do bristle at the notion of Joe Flacco being the highest paid player in the NFL and getting that kind of crazy guaranteed cash. He's not that kind of player. He's just not. But I'm sure his contract will be eclipsed many times over by a long succession of players in the next couple of years.





2013-03-06 5:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
tri808 - 2013-03-06 2:11 PM
scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 9:02 AM I have no disdain for Joe Flacco. He seems like a good guy and, as I've stated often, an above-average QB. I just wouldn't break the bank for him in the way the Ravens did. I think it's going to create problems, you don't, fair enough. I'm just glad it's not my team spending money like Baltimore. I'm glad you got your Superbowl win because I think it will be a long time until your next one. I prefer my team structure its deals to remain competitive year after year. As we all know, health and luck have a lot to do with who wins it all. IMO, I would rather give my team a shot, even a weaker one, every year rather than put all my eggs in one basket for a brief window of opportunity. But to each his own. That said, I know my Packers are about to break the bank for Aaron Rodgers. It will be interesting to compare that deal with Joe Flacco's-- and their production-- as time goes by.

I agree with everything you said in principle.  But I still don't see how Flacco's contract stops Baltimore from being competitive year after year.  His contract is set up so that they can still put players around him.  Much more so than the other high paid QBs in the league.  And he'll need those players, because I don't think Flacco is that good. 

2013-2015 cap numbers for the following QBs in millions of dollars (responsible for the last 11 super bowls)

Joe Flacco $6.8, $14.8, $14.5
Tom Brady $13.8, $14.8, $14.0
Eli Manning $20.85, $20.4, $19.75
Aaron Rodgers $9.75, $11.0, FA
Peyton Manning $20.0, $20.0, $19.0
Drew Bress, $17.4, $18.4, $26.4
Ben Roethlisberger $13.6, $17.9, $17.4

Other QBs of note
Ryan Fitzpatrick $10.5, $10.5, $10.4
Matt Ryan $12.0, FA
Matt Stafford $20.8, $19.3, $17.2
Sam Bradford $12.6, $17.6, $16.6
Matt Cassel $9.8, $11.1
Kevin Kolb $13.5, $12.5, $12.5

How about in 3 years though? He's going to be $30M/yr hit on the salary cap. Even with a huge restructing, he's going to need to do a Brady-like contract to get them out of it.



2013-03-06 5:27 PM
in reply to: #4649187

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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens

scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 12:39 PM Yeah, you're kind of bringing me around on this. From a salary cap standpoint, it's not that bad for the Ravens. I do bristle at the notion of Joe Flacco being the highest paid player in the NFL and getting that kind of crazy guaranteed cash. He's not that kind of player. He's just not. But I'm sure his contract will be eclipsed many times over by a long succession of players in the next couple of years.

Don't get me wrong.  I still think Flacco is being overpaid, and his cap number for the next 3 years are "slightly higher" than he's worth.  $14 million in 2014 and 2015 is still pretty high, but it's not crippling. 

I'm guessing Green Bay and Rodgers will set up a similar contract as Flacco's and be cap friendly in the early years.  The problem with Rodgers is he's so good that Green Bay might actually have to eat the huge cap numbers in the later years if Rodgers is not willing to restructure.  Because there's now way in heck that Rodgers will be cut as a salary cap casualty. 

If you look at Eli's contract, only starting in 2013 does his cap number really kick up.  I'm thinking that the NYG gave Eli that huge contract thinking that they would have restructured by now, but it just so happens that Eli delivered another super bowl ring...so Eli has a little more leverage than they expected. 

2013-03-06 8:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens

Spoiler alert...I'm from Baltimore, and a huge Ravens fan.

Flacco actually helped the team for the next 3 years.  His cap number is below elite QB salary for the next few years. He'll actually allow for more decent players to play beside him for a while.  

That said, we're totally screwed in 2016.  His cap number will approach 30M, so thats when he'll be in the drivers seat.

2013-03-07 8:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Flacco's contract was not that big and he is not making a ton of money. After signing his contract, all he could afford for dinner that night on his way home to New Jersey was a 6-piece McNugget value meal from McDonald's Smile
2013-03-07 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 5:39 PM

tri808 - 2013-03-06 3:11 PM

scoobysdad - 2013-03-06 9:02 AM I have no disdain for Joe Flacco. He seems like a good guy and, as I've stated often, an above-average QB. I just wouldn't break the bank for him in the way the Ravens did. I think it's going to create problems, you don't, fair enough. I'm just glad it's not my team spending money like Baltimore. I'm glad you got your Superbowl win because I think it will be a long time until your next one. I prefer my team structure its deals to remain competitive year after year. As we all know, health and luck have a lot to do with who wins it all. IMO, I would rather give my team a shot, even a weaker one, every year rather than put all my eggs in one basket for a brief window of opportunity. But to each his own. That said, I know my Packers are about to break the bank for Aaron Rodgers. It will be interesting to compare that deal with Joe Flacco's-- and their production-- as time goes by.

I agree with everything you said in principle.  But I still don't see how Flacco's contract stops Baltimore from being competitive year after year.  His contract is set up so that they can still put players around him.  Much more so than the other high paid QBs in the league.  And he'll need those players, because I don't think Flacco is that good. 

2013-2015 cap numbers for the following QBs in millions of dollars (responsible for the last 11 super bowls)

Joe Flacco $6.8, $14.8, $14.5
Tom Brady $13.8, $14.8, $14.0
Eli Manning $20.85, $20.4, $19.75
Aaron Rodgers $9.75, $11.0, FA
Peyton Manning $20.0, $20.0, $19.0
Drew Bress, $17.4, $18.4, $26.4
Ben Roethlisberger $13.6, $17.9, $17.4

Other QBs of note
Ryan Fitzpatrick $10.5, $10.5, $10.4
Matt Ryan $12.0, FA
Matt Stafford $20.8, $19.3, $17.2
Sam Bradford $12.6, $17.6, $16.6
Matt Cassel $9.8, $11.1
Kevin Kolb $13.5, $12.5, $12.5




Yeah, you're kind of bringing me around on this. From a salary cap standpoint, it's not that bad for the Ravens.

I do bristle at the notion of Joe Flacco being the highest paid player in the NFL and getting that kind of crazy guaranteed cash. He's not that kind of player. He's just not. But I'm sure his contract will be eclipsed many times over by a long succession of players in the next couple of years.







I agree Scoob, but Flacco's their best and only option. They have to keep him no matter how distasteful the cost.
2013-03-12 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens

OK...now I'm a little worried.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/66801/ravens-will-regret-trading-anquan-boldin

Yeah, I know, we survived releasing Joe's other security blanket (Mason).  But this guy was everything you'd want in a football player...great locker room guy, great blocker, doesn't drop the football.  I agree with Hensley's assessment.

Note that the Flacco contract didn't do this...his cap hit is only like $7M.  It's the Suggs and Ngata contracts that are killers this year.



2013-03-12 11:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens

I understand the move.  You just have to realize that receivers are much easier to replace unless you're a complete game changer like Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss in his prime.  Receivers are becoming like running backs.  They don't go that high in the draft, and teams rather have 3-4 solid players at that position rather than trying to hold on to one really good one. 

Boldin is definately a significant loss...no doubt about that...but losing Ngata or Suggs would have been bigger because they are harder to replace.  You have to pick and choose which guys you're going to keep.  A lot of times you simply can't keep them all.

2013-03-12 1:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
It sucks to lose Boldin but I understand his POV. He knows he is worth $$ and is towards the end of his career. Why not go to another team (who has a great shot of winning the Super Bowl this year) and get the Pay Day you deserve so you can bank it for your retirement. He gave us 3 great years and will be tough to replace but I am sure Ozzie knows what he is doing. I hate seeing him go to the 49ers though...
2013-03-12 5:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
jmhpsu93 - 2013-03-12 10:09 AM

OK...now I'm a little worried.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/66801/ravens-will-regret-trading-anquan-boldin

Yeah, I know, we survived releasing Joe's other security blanket (Mason).  But this guy was everything you'd want in a football player...great locker room guy, great blocker, doesn't drop the football.  I agree with Hensley's assessment.

Note that the Flacco contract didn't do this...his cap hit is only like $7M.  It's the Suggs and Ngata contracts that are killers this year.

In Ozzie we trust.....

2013-03-13 6:46 AM
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As a Browns fan it really pains me that Art waited until after he moved the team to Baltimore to give Ozzie a shot. Removing himself from any of the decision making was really Art's greatest move. I think they will probably hit another HR in the draft and be all right. It might take them a year or two to get the D really rolling again, but they might be losing a huge part of the heart in Ray Ray and Ed Reed, yes I know they are both older and probably on the decline, but they provided an emotional lift week in and week out. Kruger and Ellerbee are going to hurt as well.

I think the loss of Boldin will hurt as much as any of those other losses. He could just flat out go get the ball if it was close to him and they really needed the catch.

Yes I am a delusional Browns fan, but the division did get a little more competitively balanced yesterday.
2013-03-13 7:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
tri808 - 2013-03-12 12:21 PM

I understand the move.  You just have to realize that receivers are much easier to replace unless you're a complete game changer like Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss in his prime.  Receivers are becoming like running backs.  They don't go that high in the draft, and teams rather have 3-4 solid players at that position rather than trying to hold on to one really good one. 

Boldin is definately a significant loss...no doubt about that...but losing Ngata or Suggs would have been bigger because they are harder to replace.  You have to pick and choose which guys you're going to keep.  A lot of times you simply can't keep them all.

As a resident of the Redskins market I can tell you that wide receivers are NOT that easy to replace---at the top end of the position.  Boldin is a game changer.  It was a great move to bring him to Baltimore--and a huge help to Flacco.  Finding 3-4 solid guys that stay healthy and consistent is a big ask in the NFL these days...



2013-03-13 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
In Ozzie We Trust.... He has a plan, everyone in Baltimore tends to over react during Free Agency when we drop players. Last year when we lost Ben Grubbs and Jared Johnson everyone freaked out but looked what happened...Superbowl and JJ (who I love) had his worst season (statistically speaking) and our line did well. I think that Kruger was a good player, not great. He did well but he was a part time player who was weak against the run due to his size and played in only 20-40% of defensive plays during a game. The Browns paid WAY too much for him IMO. Ellerbee was also a good player who it sucks to lose but also only started 8 games or so for us. There was no way we would pay him $35 million for him. I am glad he got his payday elsewhere. Another spoiler alert....Ravens let go of Safety Bernard Pollard Today. He saved the Ravens $1million in cap space after being let go. He was a great hitter but not so much a ball hawk. I am not sure what Ozzie has in store for Free Agency but we shall see and I have faith that it will all work out. The addition of Chris Canty from the Giants is a good pickup at a cheap price and looks like they will be suring up the D line and moving Mt. Cody out of the mix.
2013-03-15 7:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens
Can't pretend I didn't love this!



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2013-03-15 7:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Poor Ravens

pitt83 - 2013-03-15 8:05 AM Can't pretend I didn't love this!

Now that right there's funny!  True but funny.  8-8 is my prediction.

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