General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3? Rss Feed  
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2013-03-20 10:30 AM
in reply to: #4667429

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
TriGuy05 - 2013-03-20 9:53 AM

I have the profile design aero bottle and agree with you on the straw in my face.  After my first race with it when i got home I cut the straw down even farther.  Now to drink i have to drop my head down a little ways...still staying in aero but don't have the straw in my face either. 

I used two bottles on my last HIM.  I had the Profile bottle and one bottle on the seat tube.  I replaced the bottle on the seat tube at the aid stations...I kept my carbo pro mix in the aero bottle and used the seat tube bottle as water only....

My thought process on a HIM race...better to have an extra bottle than not have enough.  It is such a small amount of weight/aero that it will never out way the possiblity of becoming too dehydrated and bonking on the race.

 

I have cut the straw down and still don't like it.  Although maybe I should give it another try.



2013-03-20 10:38 AM
in reply to: #4666562

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
I train in Dallas, TX and have ridden many miles in 100+ degree heat and I don't drink a sports drink. The hot races I have done (IM and HIM distances) I haven't had a sports drink. I would do gels, or my Infinit mix had eletrolytes in it. I don't think a sports drink is necessary. If you are worried you can get Hammer eletrolyte pills to take.

2013-03-20 1:59 PM
in reply to: #4667500


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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
EKH - 2013-03-20 10:30 AM
TriGuy05 - 2013-03-20 9:53 AM

I have the profile design aero bottle and agree with you on the straw in my face.  After my first race with it when i got home I cut the straw down even farther.  Now to drink i have to drop my head down a little ways...still staying in aero but don't have the straw in my face either. 

I used two bottles on my last HIM.  I had the Profile bottle and one bottle on the seat tube.  I replaced the bottle on the seat tube at the aid stations...I kept my carbo pro mix in the aero bottle and used the seat tube bottle as water only....

My thought process on a HIM race...better to have an extra bottle than not have enough.  It is such a small amount of weight/aero that it will never out way the possiblity of becoming too dehydrated and bonking on the race.

 

I have cut the straw down and still don't like it.  Although maybe I should give it another try.

I've got the A2 that has been mentioned before. I didn't like the straw either so i just put a rubberband around the bottle which held the straw down as well so it is parallel with the bottle. All i have to do is just grab the nozzle and can stay in aero the whole time

2013-03-20 2:20 PM
in reply to: #4666835

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?

ChrisM - 2013-03-19 6:35 PM Don't they say a bottle on the downtube is more aero than no bottle?

Negative.  Downtube bottles are terrible, aerodynamically speaking.  

A horizontal bottle mounted between the aerobars (such as the Speedfil A2 (which I love)) is more aero than not having one there. 

2013-03-20 3:40 PM
in reply to: #4666610

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
tri808 - 2013-03-19 3:45 PM

I do almost all my races on gels and water, including a HIM which I have done twice (will be my third time again this year).  It's in June, in Kona (), but I'm also from Hawaii so I'm accustomed to the heat.

I carry two bottles of water for the bike, and while I could possibly make do with just one, I wouldn't want to risk it.  There are ample aid stations on the bike, but lots of times when I'm drinking, not all the water goes in my mouth.  Sometimes I purposely spray water over my chest, neck, and back to keep a little cooler.

Also, the bottles they handed out at aid stations did not have a sealed top...so some water would leak out if you had it mounted horizontally.

The best way to determine this for you is to test it during training.  Go out on a ride and force yourself to ration your water in a way that would simulate only having one bottle.  Just make sure to take into account that you would have just swam 1.2 miles before, and you still need to run 13.1 after.  Nutrition/hydration on the bike is crucial...because you can't take anything in during the swim, and it's usually too late to "catch up" on the run.

I routinely take in my salt in the swim many times! Laughing

2013-03-21 9:23 AM
in reply to: #4666850

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?

There are two main factors to any succesful nutrition plan:

1 - It must be specific and detailed.  You will consume ___ calories/carbs/sodium/caffeine etc an hour via fluids and/or ___calories/carbs/sodium/caffeine etc. an hour via food.  You must have a detailed plan that you have practiced in training and ran off of the bike implementing that nutrition plan at race pace (albeit shorter distances).  For a 70.3, about 6 weeks out, do a race prep on similar terrain, in similar conditions about 2/3 the race distance (40 mi bike and 3-4 mi run) at desired race pace.  This is the time to see if your heart rate and/or power numbers need adjusting and see how your nutrition plan is

 

2- When plan A goes bad, YOU HAVE to have the ability to implement a plan B.  

Running one bottle puts you at complete mercy of the race director, the type of bottles they have and the volunteers ability to make a successful handoff and whether or not they leave the cap on for you (I ran into 3 aid stations in a row last year at IMFLA and all of them were ripping the caps off).  The "penalty" for carrying a second bottle is minimal as compared to what it can prevent and it also only puts you using one aid station, so you can reduce risk of accident/crash by avoiding a high risk area.

Can it be done, sure.  Would I put my entire race in down to something that might save me 2 watts? Heck no!



2013-03-21 9:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
outdoorWI - 2013-03-20 2:20 PM

ChrisM - 2013-03-19 6:35 PM Don't they say a bottle on the downtube is more aero than no bottle?

Negative.  Downtube bottles are terrible, aerodynamically speaking.  

A horizontal bottle mounted between the aerobars (such as the Speedfil A2 (which I love)) is more aero than not having one there. 

Not in every position and not for every rider.  Just slapping a torpedo or zip tied cage on your extensions does not automatically equate to less drag.

2013-03-21 9:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
outdoorWI - 2013-03-20 3:20 PM

ChrisM - 2013-03-19 6:35 PM Don't they say a bottle on the downtube is more aero than no bottle?

Negative.  Downtube bottles are terrible, aerodynamically speaking.  

A horizontal bottle mounted between the aerobars (such as the Speedfil A2 (which I love)) is more aero than not having one there. 

that straw looks absolutely terrible from an aerodynamic standpoint...

2013-03-21 9:59 AM
in reply to: #4666562

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?

I race my longer events with an aero bottle on my down/seat tube (a Specialized Virtue bottle modified to take up the bottom of the triangle) and a bottle behind the saddle (Lieto-esque)

I keep my nutrition in the virtue bottle (as it's non-refillable on the fly) and with gels in my Speedpack, and take a bottle of water/sport drink in the rear, replacing it at each aid station.

 

The only time 1 bottle will haunt you is if you drop one.  I consider this a minimal risk as I practice bottle handups... so I place it in the same "danger" department as wrecking or having a flat.

2013-03-21 10:16 AM
in reply to: #4668694


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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
LSUfan4444 - 2013-03-21 9:23 AM

There are two main factors to any succesful nutrition plan:

1 - It must be specific and detailed.  You will consume ___ calories/carbs/sodium/caffeine etc an hour via fluids and/or ___calories/carbs/sodium/caffeine etc. an hour via food.  You must have a detailed plan that you have practiced in training and ran off of the bike implementing that nutrition plan at race pace (albeit shorter distances).  For a 70.3, about 6 weeks out, do a race prep on similar terrain, in similar conditions about 2/3 the race distance (40 mi bike and 3-4 mi run) at desired race pace.  This is the time to see if your heart rate and/or power numbers need adjusting and see how your nutrition plan is

 

2- When plan A goes bad, YOU HAVE to have the ability to implement a plan B.  

Running one bottle puts you at complete mercy of the race director, the type of bottles they have and the volunteers ability to make a successful handoff and whether or not they leave the cap on for you (I ran into 3 aid stations in a row last year at IMFLA and all of them were ripping the caps off).  The "penalty" for carrying a second bottle is minimal as compared to what it can prevent and it also only puts you using one aid station, so you can reduce risk of accident/crash by avoiding a high risk area.

Can it be done, sure.  Would I put my entire race in down to something that might save me 2 watts? Heck no!

 

Idon't think you need a specific and detailed plan. It's too much work and is low bang for the buck int terms of accounting for fluctuations in how you feel or conditions on race day (cool = much less H20 needed.)

 

Best practice: do what you do in training. This means, of course, you have to shoot for race-type distances for HIM training (which is recommended) and use race-type nutrition. Once you do this week in week out, you'll know what works - no fancy spreadsheets or math needed. Use the exact same nutrition & hydration you're using on your 50 mile training rides.

 

My last HIM went very well, and this was the entire nutrition:

2 bottles of water with  1cup of maltodextrin in each bottle

1 third bottle of pure water on the bottle exchange. I took one salt tab just for kicks but I doubt I needed it. (It was a cool day.)

 

1 gel on the run.

 

That's it. HIM nutrition is not complicated, provided you put the training in and it's working. Just some calories, maybe a bit of salt if it's warm out (I don't even use salt anymore on my 4 hr training rides) and that's it. Maltodextrin works great and is super cheap. I came off the bike feeling like a rock star, ran 7:20/mile on the run passing a lot of people, and felt great at the finish. THe nutrition part of the HIM is wayyyy overhyped relative to the training. It's not at all complicated.

 



Edited by yazmaster 2013-03-21 10:17 AM
2013-03-21 10:27 AM
in reply to: #4668777

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?

Idon't think you need a specific and detailed plan. It's too much work and is low bang for the buck int terms of accounting for fluctuations in how you feel or conditions on race day (cool = much less H20 needed.)

I have yet to see a coach, pro or an elite that agrees that you on this one.

I think you're just changing the wording and we're both saying the same things.  yes, do on race day what you have done in training, but you have to track your results in training to see what worked and what didn't.  Thats not too much work, thats just common sense.

Showing up on race day for a 70.3 with some nutrition just thrown in a bag because you have tried it once before is useless.  

I am not suggestion fancy spreadsheets or math, just play with your nutrition in training, do some race specific training and track your results with different nutrition plans, then plan to execute what has worked most efficiently.  But, your plan should be specific.  Meaning, if you plan on eating a Clif bar, two bottles of water, one gel and a bottle of perform on the bike, it is best to figure out how you want to do it before race day.  Be specific.

Realize that you probably want to eat the heaviest food somewhere in the middle and to start and end your ride with alot of fluids, not food.  So, hour 1 would be perform only, then hour two might start with a gel and munch on the clif bar through the next hour.  by the end of hour two, go back to water (for example).  Again, precise and specific.

 



2013-03-21 1:07 PM
in reply to: #4668747

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Subject: RE: Carrying only 1 bottle during 70.3?
Leegoocrap - 2013-03-21 10:59 AM

I race my longer events with an aero bottle on my down/seat tube (a Specialized Virtue bottle modified to take up the bottom of the triangle) and a bottle behind the saddle (Lieto-esque)

I keep my nutrition in the virtue bottle (as it's non-refillable on the fly) and with gels in my Speedpack, and take a bottle of water/sport drink in the rear, replacing it at each aid station.

 

The only time 1 bottle will haunt you is if you drop one.  I consider this a minimal risk as I practice bottle handups... so I place it in the same "danger" department as wrecking or having a flat.

Similar setup.  Bontrager Aero bottle on the seat tube (tests on a Speed Concept as better than no bottle), plus a horizontal bottle between the arms.  Plus I have an empty cage tucked Lieto style out of the wind, behind my seat (just in case).  The horizontal bottle is for water, the aero bottle carried gatorade, and I carried gels in a fuel belt style bottle in my tri top.

All ridden and practised multiple times in advance.

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