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2013-04-12 9:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Seriously now, when is the next book supposed to come out.  You guys are getting me all revved up to read it.  I'm going to working out of town all next week and I would have knocked it out then.....  >


2013-04-12 9:07 AM
in reply to: #4696662

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-11 2:05 PM
wingsfan - 2013-04-11 11:41 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-11 1:29 PM
wingsfan - 2013-04-11 11:26 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-10 2:29 PM I'll go $10 on it

I'll take that bet if I get dead, but is resurrected/reanimated/wargs into Ghost's body/etc

I don't know how the red womens powers work but I'll give you into ghost's body

Then I'd need odds Tongue out

How do you do odds on his death and how do we know if you covered it? lol

If all I get is he wargs into Ghost's body or he's all dead and we go through his clothes and look for loose change I'd need at least 5:1. 

I'm thinking the only way he's just dead and the question of his lineage goes unanswered is if GRRM decides to be GRRM-like and extend a literary middle finger to the people thinking they've got it all figured out about Jon being a Stark/Targaryen destined for greatness. I think GRRM would prefer to show off a little more than that and give us something nobody sees coming, which would require Jon to be alive.

Jon warging into Ghost to avoid death is cool, but would seem to limit future story lines to ripping out people's throats and dialog consisting of growls and barks. Though Melisandre did see Jon as both a human and a wolf in her visions so maybe 3:1 odds.

I'd expect Melisandre's powers to work pretty much the way Thoros did it. Though Thoros did it unexpectedly and I don't think we've seen any indication Melisandre knows how to resurrect somebody. Maybe she'll stumble upon it as well.

2013-04-12 11:20 PM
in reply to: #4684684

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Melissandre is not needed for John to wary into Ghost's body after he's gone. After all Orell attacked John as an eagle after he was dead. Wargs can jump into the animal bodies long after their death according to the wildlings.

Either John is going to come all the way back or he's dead dead.
2013-04-15 8:42 AM
in reply to: #4684684

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

2013-04-15 9:07 AM
in reply to: #4700401

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)

KSH - 2013-04-15 6:42 AM So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

 They only showed a bit of the torturing on the last show. I think he is now going to be with his sister at Moat Cailian but this didn't happen in the book till A Dance with Dragons. So they are skipping the girl helping him escape, getting caught and killing the girl, flaying of his skin including fingers and toes, then finally when the bastards father returns and Theon is sent to Moat Cailian to talk peace with the Iron Born.

2013-04-15 11:37 AM
in reply to: #4700453

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 9:07 AM

KSH - 2013-04-15 6:42 AM So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

 They only showed a bit of the torturing on the last show. I think he is now going to be with his sister at Moat Cailian but this didn't happen in the book till A Dance with Dragons. So they are skipping the girl helping him escape, getting caught and killing the girl, flaying of his skin including fingers and toes, then finally when the bastards father returns and Theon is sent to Moat Cailian to talk peace with the Iron Born.



WOW! That was a huge part of the book! Theon being Bastard's stinky friend and how he goes through turning into a groveling, pathetic mess.

Can't believe they cut ALL of that out!



2013-04-15 11:44 AM
in reply to: #4700788

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)

KSH - 2013-04-15 9:37 AM WOW! That was a huge part of the book! Theon being Bastard's stinky friend and how he goes through turning into a groveling, pathetic mess. Can't believe they cut ALL of that out!

I think they can get the idea across but put less time into it so they can focus on the other stories.

2013-04-15 11:55 AM
in reply to: #4700802

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 11:44 AM

KSH - 2013-04-15 9:37 AM WOW! That was a huge part of the book! Theon being Bastard's stinky friend and how he goes through turning into a groveling, pathetic mess. Can't believe they cut ALL of that out!

I think they can get the idea across but put less time into it so they can focus on the other stories.



Well the idea is over... and I don't think they got it across at all. But that's just me.

2013-04-15 2:23 PM
in reply to: #4700453

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 7:07 AM

KSH - 2013-04-15 6:42 AM So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

 They only showed a bit of the torturing on the last show. I think he is now going to be with his sister at Moat Cailian but this didn't happen in the book till A Dance with Dragons. So they are skipping the girl helping him escape, getting caught and killing the girl, flaying of his skin including fingers and toes, then finally when the bastards father returns and Theon is sent to Moat Cailian to talk peace with the Iron Born.

Isn't this the book thread, Mr. Appa? Tongue out I've still got two episodes left in season 2!

Must say I'm very curious what Roose Bolton is going to do with him...to make a play for the Iron Islands, but he didn't even tell Ramsay that he knew Reek was Theon, and he makes it clear that he doesn't think his bastard is very smart/cunning. So... these plans don't seem to involve Ramsay in the long term, though he's now the legit heir. On top of that, Theon just seems so broken that I have a hard time seeing him as a successful puppet for anyone.

Obviously I'm behind most of you, since I'm not done with bk 5 yet (almost halfway).

2013-04-15 2:37 PM
in reply to: #4701174

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
4agoodlife - 2013-04-15 12:23 PM
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 7:07 AM

KSH - 2013-04-15 6:42 AM So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

 They only showed a bit of the torturing on the last show. I think he is now going to be with his sister at Moat Cailian but this didn't happen in the book till A Dance with Dragons. So they are skipping the girl helping him escape, getting caught and killing the girl, flaying of his skin including fingers and toes, then finally when the bastards father returns and Theon is sent to Moat Cailian to talk peace with the Iron Born.

Isn't this the book thread, Mr. Appa? Tongue out I've still got two episodes left in season 2!

Must say I'm very curious what Roose Bolton is going to do with him...to make a play for the Iron Islands, but he didn't even tell Ramsay that he knew Reek was Theon, and he makes it clear that he doesn't think his bastard is very smart/cunning. So... these plans don't seem to involve Ramsay in the long term, though he's now the legit heir. On top of that, Theon just seems so broken that I have a hard time seeing him as a successful puppet for anyone.

Obviously I'm behind most of you, since I'm not done with bk 5 yet (almost halfway).

Well something is going to happen with Theon knowing that the Bolton bastard didn't marry the real Arya Stark.

2013-04-15 8:25 PM
in reply to: #4701223

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 2:37 PM

4agoodlife - 2013-04-15 12:23 PM
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 7:07 AM

KSH - 2013-04-15 6:42 AM So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

 They only showed a bit of the torturing on the last show. I think he is now going to be with his sister at Moat Cailian but this didn't happen in the book till A Dance with Dragons. So they are skipping the girl helping him escape, getting caught and killing the girl, flaying of his skin including fingers and toes, then finally when the bastards father returns and Theon is sent to Moat Cailian to talk peace with the Iron Born.

Isn't this the book thread, Mr. Appa? Tongue out I've still got two episodes left in season 2!

Must say I'm very curious what Roose Bolton is going to do with him...to make a play for the Iron Islands, but he didn't even tell Ramsay that he knew Reek was Theon, and he makes it clear that he doesn't think his bastard is very smart/cunning. So... these plans don't seem to involve Ramsay in the long term, though he's now the legit heir. On top of that, Theon just seems so broken that I have a hard time seeing him as a successful puppet for anyone.

Obviously I'm behind most of you, since I'm not done with bk 5 yet (almost halfway).

Well something is going to happen with Theon knowing that the Bolton bastard didn't marry the real Arya Stark.



My friend's theory on the marriage is that the Bastard of Bolton knows it isn't Aray Stark, but he's willing to play along because it gets him Winterfell. Does it matter is she's the real Arya if the crown says she is, and if it gets him Winterfell?



2013-04-15 8:42 PM
in reply to: #4701800

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
KSH - 2013-04-15 8:25 PM
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 2:37 PM
4agoodlife - 2013-04-15 12:23 PM
Big Appa - 2013-04-15 7:07 AM

KSH - 2013-04-15 6:42 AM So I watched the show last night, and it seems that they are going in a different direction with Theon in the series. Am I am forgetting something from the book? I don't recall him getting free. Did he early on? I'm wondering if they are going to skip over the whole "the Bastard of Bolton torturing Theon" story line. That was a pretty big story line.

 They only showed a bit of the torturing on the last show. I think he is now going to be with his sister at Moat Cailian but this didn't happen in the book till A Dance with Dragons. So they are skipping the girl helping him escape, getting caught and killing the girl, flaying of his skin including fingers and toes, then finally when the bastards father returns and Theon is sent to Moat Cailian to talk peace with the Iron Born.

Isn't this the book thread, Mr. Appa? Tongue out I've still got two episodes left in season 2!

Must say I'm very curious what Roose Bolton is going to do with him...to make a play for the Iron Islands, but he didn't even tell Ramsay that he knew Reek was Theon, and he makes it clear that he doesn't think his bastard is very smart/cunning. So... these plans don't seem to involve Ramsay in the long term, though he's now the legit heir. On top of that, Theon just seems so broken that I have a hard time seeing him as a successful puppet for anyone.

Obviously I'm behind most of you, since I'm not done with bk 5 yet (almost halfway).

Well something is going to happen with Theon knowing that the Bolton bastard didn't marry the real Arya Stark.

My friend's theory on the marriage is that the Bastard of Bolton knows it isn't Aray Stark, but he's willing to play along because it gets him Winterfell. Does it matter is she's the real Arya if the crown says she is, and if it gets him Winterfell?

Good point.

2013-04-15 9:26 PM
in reply to: #4684684

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)

Is this wedding before the end of bk 5?

I started wondering a few chapters ago if Theon's "use" was going to be to recognize that it was a fake Arya, but then it doesn't really matter in the short term. 

Long term, with Jaime's recent "good guy" deeds and knowledge that it's a fake Arya (I found that scene significant), Bolton knowing who Reek really is (and if he doesn't know it isn't Arya, I bet Theon gives it away at the wedding), and Arya still surviving out there, it does seem to add up to conniving.

2013-04-16 11:26 AM
in reply to: #4697641

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
matt3liv - 2013-04-12 9:01 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-12 9:36 AM
KSH - 2013-04-12 6:30 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-11 2:27 PM

I'm not sure about all of the children being Wargs, but it does make me think that Jon and Arya are truly blood related.  

There are some rumors going around that Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son.  Arya and Jon are supposedly the only one's with Stark-like features.  Jon could have gotten them from Lyanna or Ned. 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/  Careful, you could lose a day or two chasing down theories here.... its been incredibly helpful picking up all kinds of lost details that I lost when reading the books.  (usually with a strong ale in my glass)

Of course they are blood related. They have the same father. If the story has told us the truth. I could see it coming out though that Jon is the son of someone else.

I think he really is the son of Ned. The Starks have been in the north since the beginning and so far it seems only people from the north have the connections to the ways of the sight and wargs.

I agree that the bloodlines of the First Men seem to have the abilities, but he could have gotten it from Ned's sister Lyanna Stark.  That was my point.

I've thought for a while that he's Lyanna & Rhaegar's son.  Ned was such a "stand up" character that I just don't see him fathering Jon.  

2013-04-16 11:39 AM
in reply to: #4702653

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
thedallasceliac - 2013-04-16 9:26 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-12 9:01 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-12 9:36 AM
KSH - 2013-04-12 6:30 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-11 2:27 PM

I'm not sure about all of the children being Wargs, but it does make me think that Jon and Arya are truly blood related.  

There are some rumors going around that Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son.  Arya and Jon are supposedly the only one's with Stark-like features.  Jon could have gotten them from Lyanna or Ned. 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/  Careful, you could lose a day or two chasing down theories here.... its been incredibly helpful picking up all kinds of lost details that I lost when reading the books.  (usually with a strong ale in my glass)

Of course they are blood related. They have the same father. If the story has told us the truth. I could see it coming out though that Jon is the son of someone else.

I think he really is the son of Ned. The Starks have been in the north since the beginning and so far it seems only people from the north have the connections to the ways of the sight and wargs.

I agree that the bloodlines of the First Men seem to have the abilities, but he could have gotten it from Ned's sister Lyanna Stark.  That was my point.

I've thought for a while that he's Lyanna & Rhaegar's son.  Ned was such a "stand up" character that I just don't see him fathering Jon.  

But he never lied, ever. When asked about the mother he wouldn't talk about it but he did tell Jon he was his.

2013-04-16 11:47 AM
in reply to: #4702681

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-16 11:39 AM

thedallasceliac - 2013-04-16 9:26 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-12 9:01 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-12 9:36 AM
KSH - 2013-04-12 6:30 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-11 2:27 PM

I'm not sure about all of the children being Wargs, but it does make me think that Jon and Arya are truly blood related.  

There are some rumors going around that Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son.  Arya and Jon are supposedly the only one's with Stark-like features.  Jon could have gotten them from Lyanna or Ned. 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/  Careful, you could lose a day or two chasing down theories here.... its been incredibly helpful picking up all kinds of lost details that I lost when reading the books.  (usually with a strong ale in my glass)

Of course they are blood related. They have the same father. If the story has told us the truth. I could see it coming out though that Jon is the son of someone else.

I think he really is the son of Ned. The Starks have been in the north since the beginning and so far it seems only people from the north have the connections to the ways of the sight and wargs.

I agree that the bloodlines of the First Men seem to have the abilities, but he could have gotten it from Ned's sister Lyanna Stark.  That was my point.

I've thought for a while that he's Lyanna & Rhaegar's son.  Ned was such a "stand up" character that I just don't see him fathering Jon.  

But he never lied, ever. When asked about the mother he wouldn't talk about it but he did tell Jon he was his.



I thought they mentioned who Jon's mom was at some point in one of the books?

I could see Ned lying to keep a kid safe.



2013-04-16 11:52 AM
in reply to: #4702694

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
KSH - 2013-04-16 9:47 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-16 11:39 AM
thedallasceliac - 2013-04-16 9:26 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-12 9:01 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-12 9:36 AM
KSH - 2013-04-12 6:30 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-11 2:27 PM

I'm not sure about all of the children being Wargs, but it does make me think that Jon and Arya are truly blood related.  

There are some rumors going around that Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son.  Arya and Jon are supposedly the only one's with Stark-like features.  Jon could have gotten them from Lyanna or Ned. 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/  Careful, you could lose a day or two chasing down theories here.... its been incredibly helpful picking up all kinds of lost details that I lost when reading the books.  (usually with a strong ale in my glass)

Of course they are blood related. They have the same father. If the story has told us the truth. I could see it coming out though that Jon is the son of someone else.

I think he really is the son of Ned. The Starks have been in the north since the beginning and so far it seems only people from the north have the connections to the ways of the sight and wargs.

I agree that the bloodlines of the First Men seem to have the abilities, but he could have gotten it from Ned's sister Lyanna Stark.  That was my point.

I've thought for a while that he's Lyanna & Rhaegar's son.  Ned was such a "stand up" character that I just don't see him fathering Jon.  

But he never lied, ever. When asked about the mother he wouldn't talk about it but he did tell Jon he was his.

I thought they mentioned who Jon's mom was at some point in one of the books? I could see Ned lying to keep a kid safe.

Did they say her name? I thought he just described her and where she was from.

2013-04-16 11:56 AM
in reply to: #4702700

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)

Robert and Lyanna's son.

That has always been my guess.

2013-04-16 1:02 PM
in reply to: #4702694

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
KSH - 2013-04-16 9:47 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-16 11:39 AM
thedallasceliac - 2013-04-16 9:26 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-12 9:01 AM
Big Appa - 2013-04-12 9:36 AM
KSH - 2013-04-12 6:30 AM
matt3liv - 2013-04-11 2:27 PM

I'm not sure about all of the children being Wargs, but it does make me think that Jon and Arya are truly blood related.  

There are some rumors going around that Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son.  Arya and Jon are supposedly the only one's with Stark-like features.  Jon could have gotten them from Lyanna or Ned. 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/  Careful, you could lose a day or two chasing down theories here.... its been incredibly helpful picking up all kinds of lost details that I lost when reading the books.  (usually with a strong ale in my glass)

Of course they are blood related. They have the same father. If the story has told us the truth. I could see it coming out though that Jon is the son of someone else.

I think he really is the son of Ned. The Starks have been in the north since the beginning and so far it seems only people from the north have the connections to the ways of the sight and wargs.

I agree that the bloodlines of the First Men seem to have the abilities, but he could have gotten it from Ned's sister Lyanna Stark.  That was my point.

I've thought for a while that he's Lyanna & Rhaegar's son.  Ned was such a "stand up" character that I just don't see him fathering Jon.  

But he never lied, ever. When asked about the mother he wouldn't talk about it but he did tell Jon he was his.

I thought they mentioned who Jon's mom was at some point in one of the books? I could see Ned lying to keep a kid safe.
Yes. Arya has a conversation with a young man who says Jon's mother was his nurse maid and they were "milk brothers". But there's probably more to the story.
2013-04-16 3:31 PM
in reply to: #4702811

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
4agoodlife - 2013-04-16 1:02 PM

Yes. Arya has a conversation with a young man who says Jon's mother was his nurse maid and they were "milk brothers". But there's probably more to the story.


Awesome! Thank you! So I guess a name wasn't given? Just the story huh.

2013-04-16 3:52 PM
in reply to: #4703036

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
KSH - 2013-04-16 1:31 PM
4agoodlife - 2013-04-16 1:02 PMYes. Arya has a conversation with a young man who says Jon's mother was his nurse maid and they were "milk brothers". But there's probably more to the story.
Awesome! Thank you! So I guess a name wasn't given? Just the story huh.
I looked it up on my kindle.. The young man talking to Arya is Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall. He says Wylla is the mother but at the end of the conversation he tells her that Ned and Ashara were in love and she killed herself because of a broken heart. Soooo... kinda still open.


2013-04-17 8:56 AM
in reply to: #4703070

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
4agoodlife - 2013-04-16 3:52 PM

KSH - 2013-04-16 1:31 PM
4agoodlife - 2013-04-16 1:02 PMYes. Arya has a conversation with a young man who says Jon's mother was his nurse maid and they were "milk brothers". But there's probably more to the story.
Awesome! Thank you! So I guess a name wasn't given? Just the story huh.
I looked it up on my kindle.. The young man talking to Arya is Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall. He says Wylla is the mother but at the end of the conversation he tells her that Ned and Ashara were in love and she killed herself because of a broken heart. Soooo... kinda still open.


Thanks so much!
2013-04-17 9:40 AM
in reply to: #4684684

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)

I think Jon's mom is Wylla.

I don't think he is Lyana and Rhaegars because he is not immune to fire. When he killed the first zombie guy by throwing the lantern on him he got badly burnt on his hand.

2013-04-17 12:31 PM
in reply to: #4703839

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-17 9:40 AM

I think Jon's mom is Wylla.

I don't think he is Lyana and Rhaegars because he is not immune to fire. When he killed the first zombie guy by throwing the lantern on him he got badly burnt on his hand.



Right. BUT.... Danery's brother got burned by fire. So maybe he wasn't her real brother? Hum. Or maybe not ALL the people with "dragon's blood" can't get burned. ?
2013-04-17 12:37 PM
in reply to: #4703839

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Subject: RE: Game of Thrones - BOOKS Discussion (Spoilers)
Big Appa - 2013-04-17 9:40 AM

I think Jon's mom is Wylla.

I don't think he is Lyana and Rhaegars because he is not immune to fire. When he killed the first zombie guy by throwing the lantern on him he got badly burnt on his hand.

Good catch Cord...

It's over! He's not a Targaaryen

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