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2013-04-17 1:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
switch - 2013-04-17 12:29 PM
Aarondb4 - 2013-04-17 1:12 PM

mehaner - 2013-04-17 10:47 AM The article is specifically talking about figure competition, and based on my experience with the sport is dead on.  I NEVER EVER ran.  Closer to a show, I would walk on the inclined treadmill for 45 minutes 5 days a week, but NEVER EVER anything with high intensity.  It's not worth the loss of muscle.  So, in the context of bodybuilders (which is what a figure competitor IS), I agree with almost everything he said.

^^Agreed.

 

He is speaking from a bikini or figure competition standpoint and he is right. My wife is a bikini competitor and she is strictly forbidden from running. Makes the butt sag, burns the muscle she works so hard to get and doesn't do as much for fat loss. 

Sorry to say it but take a look around at your fellow spandex clad triathletes at your next race, triathlon does not make a body look good. Triathlon is not the way to a "hard beach body". It may be the way to a fit cardiovascular system but it does not create hard bodies. 

I personally know a woman who has completed 3 IM's and to be honest she really didn't look that good. She ate well and trained hard and finished her IM's well but she didn't have a great body and had more body fat that you would think she would after training for IM. She switched sports for a season and decided to train for a bikini competition, she cut out all the running, biking and swimming and switched to walking, slow stair climbing and lifting and she lost all her unwanted body fat and toned up big time in less than 6 months. 

Now obviously triathletes don't train to look good, they train to be faster and to go longer. But if you want to "look good" or have a nice swimsuit body, triathlon is not the best approach. So in his article the woman was running to lose weight and look good, the running was not the best way to get what she wanted.

Tri body and "beach body" (aka, low fat + muscle) are not necessarily mutually exclusive

(all photos are of Corinne Abraham):

 

I must have missed the part where I said they were exclusive. Possible, yes, the most efficient way? No.



2013-04-17 2:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
noelle1230 - 2013-04-17 12:52 PM
Aarondb4 - 2013-04-17 2:12 PM

mehaner - 2013-04-17 10:47 AM The article is specifically talking about figure competition, and based on my experience with the sport is dead on.  I NEVER EVER ran.  Closer to a show, I would walk on the inclined treadmill for 45 minutes 5 days a week, but NEVER EVER anything with high intensity.  It's not worth the loss of muscle.  So, in the context of bodybuilders (which is what a figure competitor IS), I agree with almost everything he said.

^^Agreed.

 

He is speaking from a bikini or figure competition standpoint and he is right. My wife is a bikini competitor and she is strictly forbidden from running. Makes the butt sag, burns the muscle she works so hard to get and doesn't do as much for fat loss. 

Sorry to say it but take a look around at your fellow spandex clad triathletes at your next race, triathlon does not make a body look good. Triathlon is not the way to a "hard beach body". It may be the way to a fit cardiovascular system but it does not create hard bodies. 

I personally know a woman who has completed 3 IM's and to be honest she really didn't look that good. She ate well and trained hard and finished her IM's well but she didn't have a great body and had more body fat that you would think she would after training for IM. She switched sports for a season and decided to train for a bikini competition, she cut out all the running, biking and swimming and switched to walking, slow stair climbing and lifting and she lost all her unwanted body fat and toned up big time in less than 6 months. 

Now obviously triathletes don't train to look good, they train to be faster and to go longer. But if you want to "look good" or have a nice swimsuit body, triathlon is not the best approach. So in his article the woman was running to lose weight and look good, the running was not the best way to get what she wanted.

My office software is blocking the article but as a former figure competitor and current runner, I wanted to chime in on this.

When I did figure competing, like Mehaner, I was swayed away from running or any intense cardio to avoid loss of muscle.  The main training tool I implemented to prep for these shows was a very strict diet.  I weight trained more often but not necessarily with heavier load or more intensity.  My cardio was down to a dull roar.  I dropped to about 10% body fat.  Beach body?  I think most people outside of the bodybuilding world, people that knew me or didn't know me and just decided to comment anyway thought I looked like a "ripped twig".  Those who were honest admitted it wasn't a great look.  I'm lanky to begin with and being 10% bf for me equals no butt, no chest, looking like a need to eat a pizza or two.

I got away from that lifestyle and went back to about 18-20% body fat which was normal for me at the time but I yearned to find that balance between 10% and 20%.  I eventually stumbled onto running.  Eating a much more moderate, clean but not "bodybuilder" diet, plus keeping some of the weights, plus running as my main source of cardio equaled me looking the best I ever had.  I hit and stuck with 15-16% body fat which left me really lean, yet not looking twiggy and got my butt looking the best it ever had.  Comments from friends and family were that it was the best my physique had ever looked.

When I look around at triathlons, I see a variety of physiques from beach-y to average to overweight; but I see about the same ratio when I'm teaching group fitness class, or watching cross-fit, or checking out the people in the free weights.  I think that depends on so MANY more variables than just whether or not running is part of the woman's routine.

Different things work for different people when it comes to sculpting the body, lifting the butt, shaping the legs and arms, etc.  To say that running will  push all or even most women further away from having a magazine cover body is complete poo.

I agree with you. I don't think I did a very good job of it but I was trying to say that I agree with him that if you want to look a certain way endurance sport is not the most efficient way to get a bikini or figure competitor look which was what the girl in the article was after. 

I myself do what I would call a balanced approach. I walk with my wife in the morning for her cardio, then I run or bike while she stair climbs and then I lift with her 3 times a week while she lifts 5-6 times a week. 

Nothing wrong with running at all, but I agree with his premise that if you want to look like a bikini competitor, running for hours everyday is not the most efficient way to go about it. 

Oh and I agree, I don't necessarily like the way my wife looks after 2 weeks of cutting for a show, bit too skinny and ripped for my taste but I am supportive and she looks normal again about a week or two after the show. 

2013-04-17 2:00 PM
in reply to: #4704397

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Subject: RE: Women should not run

No, you're right you didn't say exclusive, but you did say:

Triathlon is not the way to a "hard beach body". It may be the way to a fit cardiovascular system but it does not create hard bodies.

I was just providing a (very fine) example of both.

I see lots of very fit, very lean, hard triathletes.  Lots :)

2013-04-17 2:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
Aarondb4 - 2013-04-17 2:12 PM

 

I personally know a woman who has completed 3 IM's and to be honest she really didn't look that good. She ate well and trained hard and finished her IM's well but she didn't have a great body and had more body fat that you would think she would after training for IM. She switched sports for a season and decided to train for a bikini competition, she cut out all the running, biking and swimming and switched to walking, slow stair climbing and lifting and she lost all her unwanted body fat and toned up big time in less than 6 months. 

Now obviously triathletes don't train to look good, they train to be faster and to go longer. But if you want to "look good" or have a nice swimsuit body, triathlon is not the best approach. So in his article the woman was running to lose weight and look good, the running was not the best way to get what she wanted.

Nice.

So glad to have you to point out who does and does not have a "great" body.

 



Edited by trishie 2013-04-17 2:52 PM
2013-04-17 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
spudone - 2013-04-17 10:39 AM

- Hyperthyroidism accelerates your metabolism, see http://www.thyroid.org/weight-loss-and-thyroid/

Not to get away from the discussion, but don't confuse hyper (what you said) and hypo (what the article mentioned).  They mean the opposite.

Good catch! My bad

2013-04-17 5:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
I'm not sure I buy the cardio causes hypothyroidsm thing, but I totally agree with the doing too much cardio stuff. Maybe it is because it depresses the thyroid? I don't know. The effects are the same though. I used to work as a trainer in the gym and we would call these ladies Cardio Queens.

I had one lady who was on the treadmill for 60 minutes and then the bike for 60 minutes and then the eliptical for 60 minutes EVERY day. Yikes!!! I tried with all my might to convince her that she would not have to spend nearly so much time at the gym if she would play with intervals and do some weights a couple of days per week.

About a year later, she had a stroke. Yes, even after all of that cardio, she still had a stroke. Then she came to me for help. We put a reasonable plan together and she dropped weight and was healthier than she has ever been.



2013-04-17 5:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
trishie - 2013-04-17 1:43 PM
Aarondb4 - 2013-04-17 2:12 PM

 

I personally know a woman who has completed 3 IM's and to be honest she really didn't look that good. She ate well and trained hard and finished her IM's well but she didn't have a great body and had more body fat that you would think she would after training for IM. She switched sports for a season and decided to train for a bikini competition, she cut out all the running, biking and swimming and switched to walking, slow stair climbing and lifting and she lost all her unwanted body fat and toned up big time in less than 6 months. 

Now obviously triathletes don't train to look good, they train to be faster and to go longer. But if you want to "look good" or have a nice swimsuit body, triathlon is not the best approach. So in his article the woman was running to lose weight and look good, the running was not the best way to get what she wanted.

Nice.

So glad to have you to point out who does and does not have a "great" body.

 

Oh get off your high horse. Fine her body fat percentage was higher while training for IM's than while doing something different. Happy?

2013-04-17 6:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run

Ummm....While it may well be true that excessive running is not the most efficient way to lose weight, and is a particularly bad choice if one wants to train for a body-sculpting competition, why on earth would that only be true for women?

2013-04-17 7:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
My body looked the best when I was running 25 miles per week.   Anyway, if a person does the same thing over and over it can be swimming, biking, lifting etc and keeps the same diet , the body would adapt to it. Eventually the person's body would not change.
2013-04-18 4:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
Interesting article, but the premise that cardio exercises is responsible for hypothyroidism is unconvincing. There is lots of evidence namely from endocrinology where they encourage hypothyroid pts to exercise to increase their BMR ( basal metabolic rate).People get this in a number of ways. The info on Jessica is too scanty, but IF she really did have a thyroid condition that rendered her hypothryroid, chances are she has developed Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune condition managed by medication called Thyoxine. Someone who is hypothyroid will struggle to lose weight no matter what they do, but taking the medication will help her lose weight, including fat. My own experience with this condition is that running is one thing that aids my weightloss.....together with weights, swimming, bike, but it doesn't work without adequate medication, and a sensible diet. As for the beach body, well after three kids thats never gonna happen, I will never be a pinup for Tri or any other sport, but having the diversity of exercise, has built muscle tone and fitness, which means that my BMR is also much higher.
2013-04-18 9:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run

How interesting. I wondered too why some fast and hard training triathletes look sort of stocky. My experience is quite opposite, perhaps someone could help me out?

Started triathlon training last August and lost 20 lbs since, which is good and expected, but the problem is I still keep slowly loosing weight, 1-2 lbs/month without any dieting. That makes me wondering when this weight loss is going to stop, because soon I will look like a rail. Where are the muscles that were supposed to replace lost body fat?



2013-04-19 2:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
Well, that depends on your body build. I've been at endurance sports since age 10, at varying levels of intensity ranging from nearly elite level to decidedly recreational, including plenty of strength training. I'm strong but very lean......serves me well for run and swim but I'm not going to win any body-sculpting competitions. At 43 I have actually been mistaken for a middle school student from the back, several times. Ugh! So if you are naturally thin, a sport that requires hours of cardio is going to make and keep you that way. At least for women, you can be quite strong while not looking "ripped" at all.OTOH, if your body naturally tends to have a higher amount of fat, it's entirely possible that you can become quite fit without being particularly lean. I'm guessing this might be particularly true for women who train a lot but don't eat enough total calories, as that can trigger a metabolic slowdown, but maybe just true for some people naturally. Everyone has a setpoint where their body wants to be, and it's only partly alterable by training and nutrition. Thus you do see women in long-distance events who aren't as lean as you'd think they'd be given all the training. It's my experience that women who are strong cyclists (and often swimmers) tend to be a bit more powerfully built and less lean than those like me whose strength is running. It's part of the beauty of the sport that people with different physiques can be successful. My thought is that if we're healthy and enjoy our sport, who gives a .....what we look like in a bikini? if that's the goal, then something beyond tri training is needed.
2013-04-19 7:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
This is very interesting as I always wondered why after I started marathon training I just kept putting on weight and struggling to lose. Funny thing though is that since I started tri training I have been losing some of the weight I gained whilst marathon training. (I dropped from 6 runs a week, averaging 30-40mph to around 15mph but two bike rides and two swims).
2013-04-19 7:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
What I shouldn't run? Fantastic back to the couch
2013-04-19 9:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
tukutuku - 2013-04-18 8:51 PM

How interesting. I wondered too why some fast and hard training triathletes look sort of stocky. My experience is quite opposite, perhaps someone could help me out?

Started triathlon training last August and lost 20 lbs since, which is good and expected, but the problem is I still keep slowly loosing weight, 1-2 lbs/month without any dieting. That makes me wondering when this weight loss is going to stop, because soon I will look like a rail. Where are the muscles that were supposed to replace lost body fat?

I would recommend that you buy some body calipers and attempt to figure out your body fat percentage and go with that. The calipers are about $15 and there are lots of websites you can find to show you how to use them and they will calculate your body fat percentage for you. 

Weight is not necessarily the best indicator. Were you lifting before tri training and stopped since? You may be trading bulky lifting muscles for leaner, smaller endurance muscles. Or you may find that your body fat percentage is fine where it is or you could lose some more and still not be too low.

My wife has a hellfire metabolism. She would struggle to gain fat if she wanted to. It is very hard for her to gain any muscle as she burns it so easily. In fact the first time she trained for a show she was doing everything right as far as exercise and routine but wasn't gaining any muscle. Her trainer finally figured out that she was stair climbing too fast and burning all the muscle, she slowed down to a snails pace, lost more fat and started to gain muscle. I can only imagine how much weight she would lose if she started tri training. 

Anyway, you should level off at some point but the calipers might give you a better idea of where you are than just weight. 

2013-04-19 10:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run

jobaxas - 2013-04-19 5:28 AM What I shouldn't run? Fantastic back to the couch

Of course that is not even close to what the article says, and most of us are not even close to the target audience of said article.  Much fire and brimstone over nothing...  Undecided



2013-04-19 10:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run

LukeBoswell - 2013-04-17 12:40 PM Sweet, at least now I won't get chicked.

 

X2.  I got backwards chicked not too long ago.  LOL.  

 

 

2013-04-19 11:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Women should not run
siouxcityhawk - 2013-04-19 10:11 AM

LukeBoswell - 2013-04-17 12:40 PM Sweet, at least now I won't get chicked.

 

X2.  I got backwards chicked not too long ago.  LOL.  

 

Ha ha my 15 yo son told  me before race (profile pic) he was not sure how he would do (first race) but one thing  FOR SURE  he would not be chicked. 

He did VERY well (in the 40's out of 2000) but I had to point out looking at  the results where an 11 YO girl smoked him by almost a minute lol She must having been going so fast he did not see her pass haha 



Edited by Meljoypip 2013-04-19 11:42 AM
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