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do tires really make that much of a difference? (Page 2)
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 2013-04-22 4:18 PM in reply to: #4710449 |
 Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference?chris00nj - 2013-04-22 10:43 AM Good thread. I had been wondering some of the same things. My alternate concern is a flat tire. How many people have had a flat out on a race? It happens. Which is why you bring a spare tube(s) and practice changing it as quickly as possible. In a race like a HIM and IM, if you're running a much faster tire compared to something like a Gatorskin...you probably can flat once...maybe even twice, and still be faster than the Gatorskin that never flats. And in the most likely scenario that you don't flat on your race tires...you are just that much faster. |
| 2013-04-22 5:03 PM in reply to: #4710432 |
Pro  6582     Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? BTRs 2010 smooth roller data has the GP4000S between .00284 (used tire 1000mi with Mich Latex tube) to .00307 (new 200mi Vred Latex) and .00313 (new Vred Latex). That's 22.3W, 24.0W & 24.6W respectively. Per what shane for road roughness, the impact on real roads is even greater with 10-14W saved with keeping the roller equivalant at 7W (likely more than that with for the Rubino Pro & butyl tube). My bike originally came with RP. When I switched over to the GP4000S with Mich latex tubes it felt like the bike would roll forever compared to the RP, I swear I was faster! A friend did the same tire combo later and when she rode up to me the first time with them she said "they feel so fast!". The GP4000s have been bomb proof for my outdoor riding, not a puncture flat yet in 2.5 years. |
| 2013-04-22 5:07 PM in reply to: #4710495 |
Champion 9407  Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? jte463 - 2013-04-22 6:07 PM So am I seeing support to the 7 watts gain comment (given that someone else estimated that the real difference on might be 4 watts on rollers where the test would have been done with a 1.5-2x benefit on the actual road)? Simple way to figure it out is that a change of .005 in Crr is worth about 5W or .5s/km. If both tires you are considering have both been tested with rollers, then you can multiply the time savings by 1.5-2 depending on the smoothness of the road. Shane |
| 2013-04-22 5:12 PM in reply to: #4710501 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? jte463 - 2013-04-22 4:13 PM dmiller5 - 2013-04-22 3:46 PM Tysk-Ironwill - 2013-04-22 3:42 PM So tires are the best bang for buck? 2x GP 4000 + latex tube for a roughly $110 and time savings of 11min??!!! Sounds almost too good to be true  only if you're using poor tires now. Its like with wheels. If you have a huge 32 spoked heavy POS wheel, and go to a HED3 front Disc rear you'll see a huge time savings. Biggest bang for your buck I'm still leaning towards a great fit followed by an aero helmet. Are you in agreement that my Vittoria stock tires used on a trainer and non-latex tubes would be defined as "poor"? (I know there's way worse out there, but I'm asking from the standpoint of "racing" tires) They aren't the slowest out there but I think its definitely worth your money to spring for some nice tubes/tires |
 2013-04-22 6:30 PM in reply to: #4710445 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-04-22 8:08 PM in reply to: #4710449 |
| Veteran 1900 Southampton, Ontario | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? chris00nj - 2013-04-22 3:43 PM Good thread. I had been wondering some of the same things. My alternate concern is a flat tire. How many people have had a flat out on a race?
The last time I got a flat out on the road I timed it and it took about 5 minutes to change so even if you went to an "uber" tire with a higher chance of a flat you still could potentially come out ahead even with a flat. And thats just a chance - its not like a flat is guaranteed or even likely with a true race tire.
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| 2013-04-22 10:15 PM in reply to: #4710224 |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? Yes, I've flatted during a race, and in a sprint/oly, it makes it near impossible to hit a PR or compete for a AG placing. The way I figure it, if I become strong enough to be competitive for 1st in my AG or the overall, I'll start spending money on the wheels, helmets, tires, and tubes. Otherwise, I'd rather loose out on a few extra seconds and not spend the money. |
| 2013-04-22 10:30 PM in reply to: #4710653 |
| Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? Fred D - 2013-04-22 4:30 PM Tysk-Ironwill - 2013-04-22 4:42 PMSo tires are the best bang for buck? 2x GP 4000 + latex tube for a roughly $110 and time savings of 11min??!!! Sounds almost too good to be true . This is your best bet. I just picked up 2 GP4000 S tires for $31 each at pro bike kit .com. That is a freaking steal IME. Was able to find Vittoria latex tubes through my LBS as well. Free (almost) speed. They are durable, low CRR and aero tires. THIS is the best bang for your buck IMHO.Got these 4000s as well. and they are still on sale |
| 2013-04-23 5:44 AM in reply to: #4710939 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-04-23 6:45 AM in reply to: #4710449 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? chris00nj - 2013-04-22 5:43 PM My alternate concern is a flat tire. How many people have had a flat out on a race? I've been fortunate enough to not flat in a race however flats do happen and it is something that you should train and be prepared for. While in short course it is likely that a flat will cost you more time that good tires and tubes would save, at the HIM and IM distance, unless you are very bad at changing flats, you should still come out on top. Also, if you take care with your equipment, flats on race day should be a very small concern. Although we often see several flats during a race, part of this is due to the number of riders (if you put 1000 people on course, even if only 2% of riders flat, that is still 20 riders and lots of people will ride by them on the side of the road so it seems as though there are lots of flats in a race). The other issue is that athletes will often change their tires for good tires and/or tubes prior to race day but not test ride them to see if they damaged the tube or had the bead properly seated; so they inflat their tires on race morning and they either let go during the swim or in the first couple of km's of the bike. Shane |
| 2013-04-23 7:15 PM in reply to: #4711034 |
| Veteran 389 sacramento, Colorado | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? Fred D - 2013-04-23 3:44 AM I just went there and they are $77.92 each!ChrisM - 2013-04-22 11:30 PM . If anyone is still watching this thread, then I say go to PBK.com ASAP! It's a great deal.Fred D - 2013-04-22 4:30 PM Tysk-Ironwill - 2013-04-22 4:42 PMSo tires are the best bang for buck? 2x GP 4000 + latex tube for a roughly $110 and time savings of 11min??!!! Sounds almost too good to be true . This is your best bet. I just picked up 2 GP4000 S tires for $31 each at pro bike kit .com. That is a freaking steal IME. Was able to find Vittoria latex tubes through my LBS as well. Free (almost) speed. They are durable, low CRR and aero tires. THIS is the best bang for your buck IMHO.Got these 4000s as well. and they are still on sale |
| 2013-04-24 8:35 AM in reply to: #4712550 |
| Master 1883 San Antone, Texas | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? kingofbanff - 2013-04-23 7:15 PM Fred D - 2013-04-23 3:44 AM I just went there and they are $77.92 each!ChrisM - 2013-04-22 11:30 PM . If anyone is still watching this thread, then I say go to PBK.com ASAP! It's a great deal.Fred D - 2013-04-22 4:30 PM Tysk-Ironwill - 2013-04-22 4:42 PMSo tires are the best bang for buck? 2x GP 4000 + latex tube for a roughly $110 and time savings of 11min??!!! Sounds almost too good to be true . This is your best bet. I just picked up 2 GP4000 S tires for $31 each at pro bike kit .com. That is a freaking steal IME. Was able to find Vittoria latex tubes through my LBS as well. Free (almost) speed. They are durable, low CRR and aero tires. THIS is the best bang for your buck IMHO.Got these 4000s as well. and they are still on sale You need to move faster! |
Keep an eye on the site, they have good sales all the time. These tires have been on sale for about a month now.| 2013-04-24 9:26 AM in reply to: #4710224 |
| Master 1517 Grand Prairie | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? I really like my Schwalbe Ultremo ZX, where do I find the crr for these tires? Also as a heavy rider (195lbs) with a heavier bike (23lbs) it seems tires make an even bigger difference, right? |
| 2013-04-24 9:35 AM in reply to: #4713034 |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? djastroman - 2013-04-24 10:35 AM kingofbanff - 2013-04-23 7:15 PM Fred D - 2013-04-23 3:44 AM I just went there and they are $77.92 each!ChrisM - 2013-04-22 11:30 PM . If anyone is still watching this thread, then I say go to PBK.com ASAP! It's a great deal.Fred D - 2013-04-22 4:30 PM Tysk-Ironwill - 2013-04-22 4:42 PMSo tires are the best bang for buck? 2x GP 4000 + latex tube for a roughly $110 and time savings of 11min??!!! Sounds almost too good to be true . This is your best bet. I just picked up 2 GP4000 S tires for $31 each at pro bike kit .com. That is a freaking steal IME. Was able to find Vittoria latex tubes through my LBS as well. Free (almost) speed. They are durable, low CRR and aero tires. THIS is the best bang for your buck IMHO.Got these 4000s as well. and they are still on sale You need to move faster! Wiggle has a sale with two of them, plus 5 tubes (not latex) for $88 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-grand-prix-4000s-tyres-and-tubes-bundle/ |
| 2013-04-24 10:04 AM in reply to: #4710224 |
| Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? I'm admittedly uneducated about these things, do the 4000 come in the 650 size? I don't see that size on the pro bike kit site, but didn't know if they just don't carry that size or if the company doesn't make that size. ETA: never mind, a google search shows they are made in 650s, but are harder to find.
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| 2013-04-24 11:52 AM in reply to: #4712550 |
| Member 143 Plano, TX | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? kingofbanff - 2013-04-23 7:15 PM Fred D - 2013-04-23 3:44 AM I just went there and they are $77.92 each!ChrisM - 2013-04-22 11:30 PM . If anyone is still watching this thread, then I say go to PBK.com ASAP! It's a great deal.Fred D - 2013-04-22 4:30 PM Tysk-Ironwill - 2013-04-22 4:42 PMSo tires are the best bang for buck? 2x GP 4000 + latex tube for a roughly $110 and time savings of 11min??!!! Sounds almost too good to be true . This is your best bet. I just picked up 2 GP4000 S tires for $31 each at pro bike kit .com. That is a freaking steal IME. Was able to find Vittoria latex tubes through my LBS as well. Free (almost) speed. They are durable, low CRR and aero tires. THIS is the best bang for your buck IMHO.Got these 4000s as well. and they are still on sale Amazon appears to have them for $45 each (actually sold through amazon so you'll get free super-saver shipping)...not as good as the initial PBK deal, but still pretty good compared to my LBS and what you're saying the price at PBK is now. Also, I was having a hard time finding latex tubes in stores, so I resorted to online (hence my amazon search above). Trisports.com has vittoria 700c latex tubes for $14.99, but shipping would be on top of that unless you're not using a deal and spend over $100 for free shipping, so maybe not economical depending on how much the shipping is. You can also get on Amazon for under $18 with free shipping... |
| 2013-04-26 10:13 AM in reply to: #4710224 |
| Member 143 Plano, TX | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? Thought I'd offer an update...I put on the Conti GS 4000s to break them in a bit before the race in a few weeks (per the suggestion of a poster). I have to say that I was somewhat shocked at the benefits of these versus what I was running before. I know it wasn't a terribly scientific experiment given all the variables that existed, but I was noticeably faster with these tires on a course I've ridden a number of times...the easiest thing to tell for me was the momentum maintained on the uphill sections. Now I'm awaiting my latex tubes to arrive in the mail to complete the package. I don't have nice race wheels, so it's nice to even the playing field at least a little bit! Thanks for the great commentary on this thread! |
| 2013-04-26 10:59 AM in reply to: #4716132 |
| Veteran 403 Maryland | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? Stupid question? Which size tube do I order 700 19-23? or 700 25-28? to be used with Conti 4000s? zipp 404 wheel. Thanks. |
| 2013-04-26 11:21 AM in reply to: #4716210 |
| Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 10:59 AM Are the tires 23mm? If so, 700 19-23.Stupid question? Which size tube do I order 700 19-23? or 700 25-28? to be used with Conti 4000s? zipp 404 wheel. Thanks. |
| 2013-04-26 12:22 PM in reply to: #4716255 |
| Veteran 403 Maryland | Subject: RE: do tires really make that much of a difference? GMAN 19030 - 2013-04-26 11:21 AM bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 10:59 AM Are the tires 23mm? If so, 700 19-23.Stupid question? Which size tube do I order 700 19-23? or 700 25-28? to be used with Conti 4000s? zipp 404 wheel. Thanks. Thanks, have not ordered either yet, but will go with those. |
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