16 months, still suck!

IIRC you've said you have no problem going long, your problem is going fast and I see you have a lot of long workouts - 8hr bike!? Do you ever train for speed?

To train for speed try to do shorter workouts at higher intensity, intervals. Over time, intervals should get longer or recovery be reduced. I don't know if this applies to swimming as well or if that's a matter of technique. I find it easier to do intervals on the trainer because I can control the load whereas on the road I have hills that might get in the way of recovery. On the run this is less of a problem.

Secondly, on the bike, I saw your logs, your cadence is really low. Maybe like me, in the beginning I liked the low cadence and push hard, but it gets easier to ride fast if you keep a higher cadence. I didn't learn that till I got a trainer and still have a hard time applying this on the road.

I have 3 rides per week, 1.5 hours of intervals with my training group/coach, a zones workout, and a long z2 ride.  I have 2 runs a week, one an intervals or zone run, and another a z2 long run.  And 3 swims a week that rotate with intervals, tools (fins/buoy/etc.), distance, lake swim, etc.  Strength training focuses on muscles that most benefit SBR and a lot of balance and core.

I only do the long z2 long ride outside, the interval/zone rides are on the trainer.

My cadence is as fast as my legs can manage on the course :/  If I could go faster, I would, sometimes I have to grind on the easiest gear!! 

Deb, I have been around since you first started posting here and there is no doubt that you have put in the work and remained consistent. You absolutely have come a long way but there is no magic bullet to gaining speed. This is endurance training and you started from nothing, so your abilities will take a while to catch up. Just put in the time with consistent training and it will come.

Your swim you already know is going to be a lot about technique. How did you feel on the run of your latest HIM? It sounds like you really had a solid run and placed the best in that event. It also sounds like the area you could really pick up some time is the bike.

16 months when you have started at zero? Not very long in the grand scheme of things. I know you probably feel like you have been putting in all of these hours but lets break it down. Think about it this way, how many of those hours were just to lose the weight? Now how many of those hours have you spent just getting your body to adapt to the training load? My guess is this is where your body is still at and speed will start to come after the adaptations are made.  

I'll use myself as an example. I have been physically fit my whole adult life doing one thing or another and have never had any weight loss issues. Running, swimming and cycling over a decade now. With all of that experience it should be easy for me to get faster right? WRONG - if I want to gain speed I have to bust my rump with intervals and I mean swimming so hard my whole body burns and I feel like I'm going to pee, riding so hard I can't feel my legs when I get off the bike. If I just put in the time I make no gains in speed.

Keep at it  and congratulations on your race!

When it comes to speed and endurance, I have read that you can only really focus on one at a time.  You have been extremely focused on building endurance as you mentioned, and you're doing great!  You can certainly get faster if you set your mind to it, but it sounds like for the immediate future as you focus on getting to the IM starting line endurance will continue to be your primary objective.

I read your post and totally get it.  Buuuuut, all I could think was, "Congratulations, you've done a COUPLE HIMs!!!"

So, first and foremost, the only thing I'll write here that matters:  CONGRATULATIONS!!!  You've done a COUPLE HIMs!!

Now, to the balance of the post, for consideration: I've been biking and running a lot (for me) the last year and have focused on run "speed" (for me) the last 6-8 months.  After 15 years of getting a little slower every year, I decided to run like a runner (and, so, train like one, too).  It took 6 months, but now my speed has actually increased dramatically (yep - for me, at least).  But, it took months and months of (again, for me) fairly high mileage, a run focus, and doing dedicated speedwork as a part of my overall training (think a tempo run, a race pace run, and a track day in addition to two short/easy runs and a long/slow run - way more than I'd done in years).

So, as a counterpoint to your experience, I can run a faster 5k, 10k or HM than when I was 25 (now 44, I think).  BUT, I think I'd run my slowest HM ever if it was at the back end of a HIM!  

As others have said, you've built base (and look to have done so in a balanced and committed way - dropping weight, going long, etc.).  Now perhaps it's time to talk with your coach about working in some speed.

The times WILL yield to your efforts.  Try not to let the time get in your head (too much - I know, easier said than done).  Perhaps look at it as part of a training plan.  Lose weight.  Check!  Build base fitness.  Check!  Build endurance and do a couple HIMs.  Check! (and awesome!).  Plan for the next race to cut a chunk of time out of the last one.  In process.  

Not to rain on your rant (everyone is entitled to a good one now and again!), but I think you actually rock.

Best,

Matt

ETA:  FWIW, I wouldn't focus on speed for the IM this June.  Too soon/too little time to switch from the endurance build needed to a speed focus.  As said above, one of those at a time.  Just my thoughts, so talk with your coach on that one...

M

Lots of good advice already posted.  I would say if you are having fun...then you are doing better than most!  Sometimes, I get too serious and miss out on the enjoyment of just going for a bike ride.

Again...lots of good advice above!  Keep it up!

My non-professional opinion - Start focusing on shorter races for a while.  Some people have already indicated the  balancing act between endurance and speed.  You have been very focused on endurance and need to get your body used to a little more speed.  That's a whole new ballgame if you're not used to it because recovery from an intense 1 hr workout will be a lot more than doing a 3-hr Z2.  You might feel like you're not doing enough, but recovery is also an important part of training.

I think your bike provides the greatest opportunity followed by the swim.  Incidentally, those are 2 disciplines you can probably push a little harder than the run since they are non-impact.  Make yourself used to efforts required to bike 16-18 mph even if initially you can only do it for a minute, but in a few weeks, you can hold it for 2 minutes, then 3, etc.  Same for the swim - you know you can swim for an hour, but can you swim 2:00/100m pace for 25m, then increase that to 50m, etc.

I believe you have a coach so if they don't know how to guide you through this process, get another one who does. 

I know you want to do an Ironman but you're really going to be pushing the cut-offs so the path there may be taking a step back and working on sprint/Olys for a little bit, then going long again. 

Just another free opinion out there (and is the path I have chosen to take - no Ironman in plans right now as I prefer to keep my training hours in the 8-10 hr/week range, but trying to continue to improve on my past 3 HIMs).  I'm giving myself a few more years (like 5) before I attempt a full ironman, unless I meet some of my HIM and Oly goals early (then maybe I'll wait just 2 yrs). 

Congratulations on getting 2 HIM's done!  That's already a lot considering your background.  However, you've gotten the 'just finish' accomplishment and it seems you  want more performance now, so you'll have to change your mindset and how you train. Good luck!

"Why do I keep doing this?  Faith.  That the wall will break before my head does "

You answered this question in the paragraphs above. You are doing this because it's fun for you. That's all that matters. You said you're self, you've dropped half your weight and that is amazing!  I'm always way more impressed with the overweight triathletes I see out there than the elites.  It's easy to be out there when you have 8% body fat and a resting HR of 40.  

Your times WILL improve if you keep at it. There will always be times of frustration and questioning why you're doing it.  We all go through that.  My first 1/2 was in 2007 and I was in pretty good shape at the time, having completed my first(only) marathon 6 months before that and my time was 6:30.  This weekend I completed my fourth 1/2 and my time was 5:17.  Each one I chipped away at my previous time.  It just takes patience and time.  I know you're time went up but with the conditions you mentioned I'm not surprised. It sounded tough and a stiff wind can be extremely defeating.  Kudos for hanging in there and dealing with it, there are times when this sport is much more mentally challenging than physically and you fought through it.  

You mentioned the amount of hours you spent strength training, but I'm not sure what that translates into for your weekly amount.  However, If you really want to improve your tri times, you might consider reducing that time down to one day a week and spend the time focusing on s/b/r.  Specifically the bike. You spend about half the time of a race on the bike, so that's where you'll see your biggest time reductions. Not to mention, bike fitness will help improve your run by simply being stronger off the bike.  

Bottom line is don't stop enjoying the sport!  That's alone will be the biggest factor in seeing performance gains!

I also want to add...You absolutely positively do NOT suck.  You need to remove those kind of negative thoughts from your mindset completely.  You may not be where you want to eventually be, but you don't suck.  Like other's have said, you've completed two Half Ironman's.  That in itself is a huge achievement. We live in a society of instant gratification and we all seem to expect instant results. 16 months is not a long time in this sport at all. Keep reminding yourself that you're doing great.  And keep your long term goals in perspective. Keep them reasonable and attainable.  Set some short term goals as well. Goals that will help get you to the long term goals.  Try some sprint/olympic distance races. You'd be surprised how difficult they can be, and they'll also help with your speed.  

Alot of people do sprint Tri as an introduction to the sport. Its certainly marketed to beginners to get them involved with the sport. Anyone with some determination can spend time training and finish the race and feel great. Thats terrific and an accomplishment for anyone just starting the sport.

I think alot of veterans loose site on the fact that sprinting a sprint Tri is a whole different ball game and people seem to poo-poo a sprint as nothing. There is so much emphasis on HIM or IM etc etc... Training for the long distances vs the short ones are so different. 

Maybe you just need to switch up some of the races in the future. For now, finish your season doing your long races and have fun! Next year focus on the shorter distances and train to sprint them.

GatorDeb - 2013-04-24 9:08 AM I've known from the beginning that I am an endurance person vs. a speed person. With training, I can go any distance. I did my first and only marathon in 9 hours and 15 minutes because I was gonna die or finish, hopefully finish I did it with NO training, with a bunch of 1 mile runs, with 3-4 5-mile runs, no run over 5 miles, and I ran 14 miles straight then I had to walk 12.2 miles back to the car. I did a Sprint in 2010 and liked it but I was hooked on my classes then another Sprint in 2011 and wanted to go longer and knew I couldn't without training.I missed the bike cutoff this Saturday but they didn't stop anyone, I did meet the overall cutoff.The reason I don't feel any specific "accomplishment" over a Half is that distances are easy for me. Train, do. I AM worried about the IM cutoffs, though. I did hear that you can only work on endurance or speed, not both.If I thought it was the coaching, I would switch in a heartbeat, but you know how sometimes you just "know" something? I don't think it's the coaching, I think it's me haIt would suck immensely if this was as good as it gets. I'd still do tris, but it would suck.As long as I meet the cutoffs, I can be content. Not happy, but content, because I can go through the whole course. But like Saturday, I didn't, and an IM branded 70.3 would have kicked me out.It's also frustrating to see others train, get better, and I'm still stuck I've been nicknamed The Energizer Bunny by people in the local tri club :\I stand by my saying: You have never met anyone else who loves this so much and sucks more at it I mean, slow is one thing, bottom 5% (and next-to-last in the swim) is another. Out of 100 people? I feel like a poser out there sighI don't question why I'm doing this, I just lament my lack of athleticism . I do two hours of strength a week, and I like what it does too much to stop that.

Deb......I'm going to try to say this tactfully, but I'm usually horrible at it...so picture me saying it without trying to be mean.

I read your first post, then I read lots of good ideas and suggestions, and then I read your post above.  Really, if you want to get faster, but you don't really want to follow the advice and suggestions of some folks with alot of knowledge about how to do that, then just be happy being slow.  The fact is, if you want to get faster you are going to have to change what you are doing....because it's not working.

You're almost ready for an Ironman, you're enjoying your training and racing, and you think you suck? NOT! Stop tearing yourself down, and focus on the amazing things you've accomplished. I'd keep doing what you're doing, stay healthy, give the IM your best shot, take a nice break to recover, and then, as others have said, if getting faster is important to you, focus on shorter distances, swim technique, and higher intensity training for a while. I've also noticed that it's very hard to improve speed while focusing mainly on endurance or training for an iron-distance race. Last year, I think my biking actually got slower, and my running and swimming got no faster, training for a HIM. This might be particularly true, if, like me, endurance comes more naturally to you than speed.

Yes, I'm one of those who rides 20 mph (well, on a good day) and complain that I suck. It's all relative. I've been running and swimming for 33 years and biking for three. In comparison to the other two events, and to my competition, my bike leg does suck. Probably some of that's due to lack of training background, cheap equipment, and my body type. We all have our challenges. I'm not a "naural athlete"--I've always had to train hard to stand out, but I'm used to being a top competitor and for me it sucks when I have to bust my butt just to be mediocre. But, like you, I'll keep banging my head against the wall, or in this case grinding my wheels against the pavement, because that's what sport's about--finding and choosing your challenges, and working to overcome them.

I look forward to reading your IM race report!

Would suggest a different outlook/attitude. That sounds awful.

These are not necessarily either/or.

These are not necessarily either/or.

Not really.  You also don't want to give up the strength work and put the time toward SBR....which, don't get me wrong, is fine.  It was also suggested that you run more, which I agree would help.  If your coach doesn't see that, you may need a new coach....another change.  I have no idea how you get better/faster at running on 2 runs per week....in fact, I'll go with, you can't.

My point is, you need to change some things if you want to get faster, maybe alot of things.  If you don't, fine, like I said, be happy being slow.

I agree with this.  If you and/or your coach aren't willing to change how you are currently training and what you are currently doing isn't working then you won't progress.  

Have you discussed all of this with your coach?

All I read was 2 HIM...

Just want to echo the focusing on each discipline for a while. Seriously, I get what you're saying, I've had a similar dilemma with the running. I too lost a load of weight and the running helped, at first it was all about just finishing and I was delighted to just finish a 10k, then a half marathon, then a marathon at all. I put in the training but never got any faster. Like you I also always felt that I'm more built for endurance rather than speed, I actually start enjoying the runs after 7/8 miles into it...

But then there was a point where I was training and training and not only not improving but getting worse. And I started not to enjoy anymore. I was trying to do lots of speed training and would notice a slight improvement only to just feel run down and end up much slower than before. I also put some weight back on and couldn't shift it. My second marathon was a disaster, I ended up jog/walking half the way to the end and finished 22 minutes slower than my first.

Then I read a load on runnersworld about increased mileage, building endurance and therefore speed and it made sense to me, it wasn't like I couldn't run fast, I just couldn't run fast for extended periods. I remembered how I used to train (and went from my first 5k in May to my 1st full marathon on Oct) and it was all relaxed adding up the miles. I trained for my 3rd marathon not caring about pace, just miles. My biggest mileage week was 56 miles! And my pace was... SLOW I mean, my 20miler took just short of 4:15. I finished 15minutes faster than my 1st marathon (27minutes faster than my previous one).

Now that I took up triathlon training my 'fear' is not putting in the miles and end up losing speed and endurance in the run because of it, but I've been reading here about how, at this stage for me it can actually help with my running as I now have a better base. And to be honest I have noticed my running is getting better; but then again I'm running less mileage, therefore less tired and much shorter distances. I've just started training for an oly and haven't really run anymore than 10k in the last 3 months.