16 months, still suck! (Page 11)

We're talking Vegas.  Not Maine

Strava says anywhere from 4300 to 5000 depending.  I was starting to think I was nuts.

http://app.strava.com/activities/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&location=lake+mead%2C+NV&%5Bcountry%5D=United+States&%5Bstate%5D=&%5Bcity%5D=&%5Blat_lng%5D=36.1311317%2C-114.4410972&keywords=pumpkinman&activity_type=Ride&type=&distance_start=0&distance_end=200&time_start=0&time_end=10&elev_gain_start=0&elev_gain_end=15000

I know.  But it gives an idea overall of whether a ride is hilly or not.

Re:  Time trial swim.  I believe my words were "timed" and it wasn't really to go for time but because I had to break them into 200 mod 200 fast 100 easy X 4 + 400 fast for 2800 and I had to time it to make sure my mod was mod, my fast was fast, etc.  I didn't go into detail because it was mentioned in passing but I forgot every word is going to be dissected and analyzed into a microscope.

Well, I'm over the standings.  When I started endurance sports after every event when it hurt I'd say I'm never doing one again.  Then the pain subsided and the itch began.  So I made a rule never to look at the future of sport right after an event.  I have a saying that you should never make future plans right after an event or when going uphill.  In the same vein, I will never gauge my progress in the sport right after an event

I am sticking with my coach at least through CDA.  It's two months away, it's not the time to make that kind of change, and I trust her blindly and will stick with her through CDA and just see what happens.

We decided to look at the 75 milers, the HIMs, the LT tests we've done so far, and collate all of that into the zones, and the rest of the workouts will be split between zones and paces (and "paces" as in paces I should be able to hit at a certain effort based on past performance, i.e. ride 75 miles at 14 MPH or something like that).

On with the training.

Elevation gain statistics are subjective because there are no hard and fast rules for when to count climbs. Most people ignore climbs of less than 1% grade, or less than a few hundred feet if they are not that steep. A HIM ride with grades of +1% and -1% for 56 miles could technically claim to have .28 miles (1478 feet) of elevation gain although most would simply say it is flat.

A look at the pumpkinman web site shows that the point to point course has a net elevation change of 1300+ feet and a total of  +7143.8 ft of climbing with 5826 ft of descending. Most of us would not count each little elevation gain as a climb but would instead focus on major climbs. Mapmyride lists it as 2976 ft in climbing with one Cat 5 2.5% climb of .9 miles and a Cat 2 3% grade climb of 6.7 miles. In comparison, the Oceanside 70.3 bike ride has 3 major climbs totaling about 1600 ft.

Um OK,, you win.  It's not hilly. I assume you've done Pumpkinman and didn't find it hilly?  If so then you are a strong climber.

But not sure what your point is with oceanside.  I don't find that course hilly, has 2500 total feet of climbing (per 910).  I found Pumpkinman (and Rage, which follows a similar course except for the climb to Boulder City) much more difficult, and disagree that only the major climbs count, because the rollers take it out of you.  Add to this ever present desert wind and hot sun with lo humidity.  The ride out to the turnaround at pumpkinman is, IMO harder than the last climb (which you would focus on), as you can never get into a rhythm as eash short downhill is met with an uphill, even if it's only .25 mile.  The last climb is more of a steady state climb where you can settle into a rhythm.

Elevation gain is a useful metric.  Never said it was the only one.  But it is more than the 2K whatever mapmyride has.  Look at the elevation change from Lake Mead to BC alone, that's close to 2K right there.

hmmm.  Upset?  not sure where you are getting that.   I'm not upset, just trying to give folks the facts about the courses we're talking about, including having done them for those that may not have. 

And I think I said that elevation is a useful metric but not everything? ETA, curious if you would agree that if I said an IM had 2600 feet of climbing (CdA) is not hilly (as a general statement) but that one that has 10,000 feet of climbing (i..e, Silverman) is hilly (as a general statement)?

Yeah, sorry about that

We've been saying the same thing all along, elevation is a useful metric in context.  I had to pull out the extreme to make a point, which is what the internet often requires since we are not sitting over a beer.

This all started with the geographically challenged folks talking about a race on the other side of the country

You'll have to forgive me...I'm not even on the same continent as you guys.

Hi Chris,

I'm not trying to win. I am also not a strong climber - body composition issues (LOL). I have done some of the local climbing centuries (Mulholland, Breathless Agony, etc.) but not pumpkinman. I always thought that Oceanside was considered to be hilly HIM ride in comparison to other 70.3's. By those stats, I was suggesting that Pumpkinman was hillier.

This is the link to the mapmyride route ( http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/3334610  which gives the overall climbing as just under 3K. It claims that the last climb goes from about 1400 ft to about 2500.

Again, all this is simply to provide some information about bike courses. I haven't done that HIM. As we all agree, these metrics can be subjective and will differ from device to device, and from online map to map. Moreover, riding the courses may give a totally different feel.

and to pay some attention to the OP... It seems like some of your climbing experience from past races should give you confidence in riding the IMCDA course as pumpkinman probably has more climbing than the whole IMCDA course.

Nice find    But despite the obviously brilliant source, I don't believe the elevation is correctly stated.  Oceanside is clearly 2500 and P Man is much more difficult.  There are tons of strava entires from 4300 to 5000, probably closer to the truth, but any method is inaccurate.  As noted, P man is harder not just because it's hillier but where the hills are.

For example, people say the new IM Canada course has similar elevation gain but will be harder due to the location of the hills.

Whoa!  This thread is now officially off the rails from the OP!  LOL!

I don't think this thread was ever on rails. 

That almost made me spit my Corona on the screen.

I genuinely wish you well at IMCDA, Deb.

Now that was funny Chris!