General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also? Rss Feed  
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2013-05-10 7:00 PM

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Subject: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?

   Hi everyone!  I have been on this forum for years now but have recently decided to switch to all cycling!  It's what I love the most, and I just don't have time for s/b/r, strength training, nutrition, pool schedules etc. 

   Anyways, I am learning a lot more about cycling!  I am making a plan and have read about the importance of improving your economy or speed skills.  I have looked up a lot of pedaling drills and stuff like that to increase cadence and economy.  As I thought about it, I was wondering if there are any drills that have you out of the saddle (as if you were climbing)? 

   It seems like most of the drills I have seen are done seated which makes sense.  But what about your economy when you are standing, working a long hill...maybe switching b ack and forth between sitting and standing for miles???  Is it important to do drills that improve your economy while standing also?  Thanks ahead of time for your responses



2013-05-12 4:24 PM
in reply to: #4737274

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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
What pedalling drills are you planning on doing?

In general, pedalling drills are not very useful and there is much more to be gained by simply riding often at at race type intensities.

Shane
2013-05-12 6:40 PM
in reply to: #4737274

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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?

The only pedaling drills I've found useful are what Friel calls 'form sprints'. Basically, they are high-cadence intervals at lower power. They are useful for learning to pedal faster and staying efficient at a high cadence. When you start bouncing up and down you've reached your limit and are no longer pedaling efficiently. You don't need to do them for a long time, just building 15-20 seconds gradually getting faster and faster. I usually start around 95 RPM (my standard cadence) and build up to ~145 RPM (my limit). Hold for a few seconds and go back to my normal cadence. These are good for sprint practice too, as typically you're better off spinning up with a moderate resistance than going to a high resistance and trying to increase speed from there.

I also find low-cadence, high resistance drills useful, but this is because at some point you're going to get to a hill where you run out of gears. Usually I just find a big hill and I don't have a choice

I do both of the above in and out of the saddle, in the drops and on the hoods. I've been doing more out-of-the-saddle work lately. When you do out-of-saddle work, it doesn't have to be full power. One key is that out-of-saddle work should be a little longer than is comfortable. You'll see many people get out for 5 seconds, then sit back down. That's all they can handle. Try to go 15s, 30s, or even longer on a climb or sprint (in the drops!). One day in a race, you'll stand up to go up a hill, turn around and have dropped the whole group.

I find 1-legged drills useless.

2013-05-13 8:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
MonkeyClaw - 2013-05-12 7:40 PM

The only pedaling drills I've found useful are what Friel calls 'form sprints'. Basically, they are high-cadence intervals at lower power. They are useful for learning to pedal faster and staying efficient at a high cadence. When you start bouncing up and down you've reached your limit and are no longer pedaling efficiently. You don't need to do them for a long time, just building 15-20 seconds gradually getting faster and faster. I usually start around 95 RPM (my standard cadence) and build up to ~145 RPM (my limit). Hold for a few seconds and go back to my normal cadence. These are good for sprint practice too, as typically you're better off spinning up with a moderate resistance than going to a high resistance and trying to increase speed from there.

I also find low-cadence, high resistance drills useful, but this is because at some point you're going to get to a hill where you run out of gears. Usually I just find a big hill and I don't have a choice

I do both of the above in and out of the saddle, in the drops and on the hoods. I've been doing more out-of-the-saddle work lately. When you do out-of-saddle work, it doesn't have to be full power. One key is that out-of-saddle work should be a little longer than is comfortable. You'll see many people get out for 5 seconds, then sit back down. That's all they can handle. Try to go 15s, 30s, or even longer on a climb or sprint (in the drops!). One day in a race, you'll stand up to go up a hill, turn around and have dropped the whole group.

I find 1-legged drills useless.

Don't do the high rpm ones but I do the low cadence high watts rides on the trainer.  I am in the saddle for those, don't normally stand on the trainer at all.

They are typically 125%FTP for 10-15 minutes at 50-60 RPM, basically weightlifting on the bike.  Coach says it builds leg strength.

Agree, one leg drills don't really do anything. 

2013-05-13 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?

Thanks for the replies

 

2013-05-17 8:00 AM
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2013-05-21 2:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
I guess I'm not 100% sure what I'm talking about. I got it from joe friel's book "the cyclists training bible" where he talks about the basic foundations for any cyclist which are (endurance, strength, and speed skills). I am stuck on the speed skills...it sounds like the whole idea is to develop better economy through short repetitions at a very high cadence. But from what I am hearing, time is better spent just putting in more miles. If so, then why does he lump "speed skills" right up there with strength and endurance? I tend to feel comfortable at a cadence right around 100. A bit higher when I'm fresh, or on flats, and a bit lower on hills or near the end of a long ride. Should I still be working towards developing a higher cadence? Or is 100 good?
2013-05-24 7:36 AM
in reply to: Kermat89

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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
Originally posted by Kermat89

I guess I'm not 100% sure what I'm talking about. I got it from joe friel's book "the cyclists training bible" where he talks about the basic foundations for any cyclist which are (endurance, strength, and speed skills). I am stuck on the speed skills...it sounds like the whole idea is to develop better economy through short repetitions at a very high cadence. But from what I am hearing, time is better spent just putting in more miles.


Economy is primarily improved through lots of riding; this doesn't mean that you don't do things like ride at lower or higher cadences while riding but the primary driver of improved economy is time in the saddle.

If so, then why does he lump "speed skills" right up there with strength and endurance?


Don't let the title of the book lead you to believe that it is a definitive guide to training for cycling.

I tend to feel comfortable at a cadence right around 100. A bit higher when I'm fresh, or on flats, and a bit lower on hills or near the end of a long ride. Should I still be working towards developing a higher cadence? Or is 100 good?


To quote a very wise man, "cadence is a red herring," as the body will tend to settle into the cadence that will be best for the rider based on the current conditions (wind, grade, etc). Research shows that a cyclist will be most economical at their self selected cadence and that this cadence may vary based upon the a variety of factors.

Shane
2013-05-24 11:29 AM
in reply to: Kermat89

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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
I have mixed feeling about the speed skills. I do them because they are part of the plan, but I don't think they need to be done too often. I think it's important to be comfortable across a wide cadence range. When you're sprinting, you can easily reach 130+ and when you're climbing you can easily slow down to 50 or lower...

I think most would be better off doing handling drills. I know I would!
2013-05-24 8:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
As many others have said, simply riding more will improve your fitness. For most people, the only real skills we need to work on involve handling and shifting.

Knowing how to take a corner or descend at high speeds can save huge chunks of time...or save huge amounts of energy since you won't have to accelerate to catch back up to the pack.

Also, knowing and anticipating when to shift can make a big difference as well. A lot of people attack during races when they approach a climb and hear everyone drop into the small ring. So something you may want to practice is climbing short hills in your big chainring. Or practice shifting back up to your big ring then shifting your rear accordingly as quickly as possible without dropping your chain. It's more of an "awareness" skill and you have to know what gear your in and exactly what you're going to do if an attack happens.

Practicing high speed cadences will eventually have it's place. There are going to be times when you need it, especially if you plan to sprint. Guys like Mark Cavendish use a 53/11 as their biggest gear just like most of us. The fact that he can top out over 50 mph is because he can spin up to 130+ rpm.

I agree that one legged drills are worthless...unless you plan to ride with one leg.

Edited by tri808 2013-05-24 8:06 PM
2013-06-12 3:52 PM
in reply to: tri808

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Subject: RE: Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also?
I do one that I heard Lance describe years back. You need a pretty long hill but we have them here in CO.

It's pretty simple..

1min in saddle
1min out of saddle

2min in saddle
2min out of saddle

3 min in saddle
3 min out of saddle

4 min in saddle
4 min out of saddle

5 min in saddle
5 min out of saddle

The end of that last interval can be humbling.


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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Pedaling Drills...all sitting? or standing also? Rss Feed