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2013-05-13 10:19 AM

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Subject: What front wheel to choose?
Im turning my roadie into a tri bike because i cant afford both at the moment. Here is a link to an inexpensive Chinese carbon front wheel on eBay. I'm just wondering if it is a good idea? I know a few people ride them but wanted to know if I should pull the trigger? I am going with a rear aerojacket disc cover but am trying to figure out a good CHEAP option for the front of my roadie. If this isn't a good idea what should I choose? Thanks in advance. http://www.ebay.com/itm/50mm-clincher-carbon-wheel-front-only-700C-...

Edited by fubar44 2013-05-13 10:20 AM


2013-05-13 10:51 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
Tough to say because although there's a 14 day return policy on those wheels...the location isn't exactly where you'd want to pay return shipping.  I wouldn't buy those. You never now the structural integrity of those kind of wheels.  Are those the top of your budget?
2013-05-13 11:00 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
As of right now $250 is about all I can swing for a front wheel. I would like a HED 3 but can't find one anywhere in my price range. So it's either find a used one (which I'm actively searching for) or buy a knock off. I guess I could keep saving but I'm thinking it would look goofy having a disc rear and just a box front. I also found a used spinergy rev x on my local Craigslist and thought it was pretty cool looking but the reviews for it were pretty bad I noticed.
2013-05-13 11:16 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

often those knock off "aero" wheels are actually worse (aerodynamically) than a well made normal rim... almost certainly worse than something like a velocity Deep V.

A HED3 probably isn't the best choice either. A road bike doesn't (generally) have the right type of fork blades for an ideal H3 setup (they need to be very flat and very wide) You'd be better off with a Jet6 or 404. A used one with the narrow rim (older non c2/FC) should be in your price range with a little patience shopping.

 

Avoid the Spinergy.

2013-05-13 11:25 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

I run exactly what you're describing on my bike, but I use an 80mm chinese front w/ covered rear wheel.  I got a good deal on the front at only $125, so it was a no-brainer.  Going by my threshold workout ride data, I gain ~1MPH with that set equipped give or take.  Plus it looks awesome:



Edited by msteiner 2013-05-13 11:27 AM
2013-05-13 11:35 AM
in reply to: #4739894

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-13 12:25 PM

I run exactly what you're describing on my bike, but I use an 80mm chinese front w/ covered rear wheel.  I got a good deal on the front at only $125, so it was a no-brainer.  Going by my threshold workout ride data, I gain ~1MPH with that set equipped give or take.  Plus it looks awesome:

^Does going that deep in the front not affect steering stability when its windy? And yes that does look awesome!

Edited by fubar44 2013-05-13 11:37 AM


2013-05-13 11:48 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
I'm gonna back leegoocrap on this one. Keep saving so you can invest in something you KNOW is quality. I run a vuelta corsa pro training wheelset, which were about $200 if I remember, (30mm clinchers) that were really cheap and have a disc cover on the back. It doesn't look bad at all!
2013-05-13 11:50 AM
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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

fubar44 - 2013-05-13 11:35 AM

^Does going that deep in the front not affect steering stability when its windy? And yes that does look awesome!

I'm 5'7 and race at 150-155 lbs usually, and it doesn't affect me in most races.  Gusts can be scary, but any wheel outside a box rim will be affected by that.

2013-05-13 8:45 PM
in reply to: #4739825

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

fubar44 - 2013-05-13 12:00 PM As of right now $250 is about all I can swing for a front wheel. I would like a HED 3 but can't find one anywhere in my price range. So it's either find a used one (which I'm actively searching for) or buy a knock off. I guess I could keep saving but I'm thinking it would look goofy having a disc rear and just a box front. I also found a used spinergy rev x on my local Craigslist and thought it was pretty cool looking but the reviews for it were pretty bad I noticed.

Boom...question answered.  Next year you'll have $400 to play with.

2013-05-13 8:47 PM
in reply to: #4739953

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-13 12:50 PM

fubar44 - 2013-05-13 11:35 AM

^Does going that deep in the front not affect steering stability when its windy? And yes that does look awesome!

I'm 5'7 and race at 150-155 lbs usually, and it doesn't affect me in most races.  Gusts can be scary, but any wheel outside a box rim will be affected by that.

Let's not talk in generalities with respect to wheels.

2013-05-13 9:36 PM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
I'd just be patient. Last 2 years ive run stock rims with an aerojacket on the back on a Trek 2.1 roadie, and have thought it looked just fine. now I have Flo 60 front and back with a jacket for the back that work and look pretty darn well. Supposedly the Flo 30s coming out with the next Pre-order will be around 500 for a set, and 225 for just the front. With shipping, it would be a wash, and their customer service has reportedly been awesome (ive had no issues, but only raced once on them so far. they made a substantial difference (~1.5-2mph) over the stock rims). The aero numbers are pretty good as well, nearly matching the Flo60 through 12.5 degrees of yaw, and markedly better than Mavic box rims. I would definitely hold out for these, and race on your stock rims until then.


2013-05-13 9:44 PM
in reply to: #4740925

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

If it were me, I'd save up and get a FLO60 front when funds become available.  Who knows...by then you might start to see used FLOs on the market for <$300.

The reason I would do this is because I know I'm in the sport long term and if I'm going to buy a front race wheel, I may as well buy the one I want the first time.  I also don't care for carbon braking surfaces for triathlon.  I rather have the added weight and an aluminum brake track.

2013-05-13 9:44 PM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
They look awesome but as others said, you're better off waiting.  I've toyed with the idea myself and although I think the open mold frames are pretty nice, the wheels in this price on Ebay are usually the older "V" design.  I just got the aerojacket for my rear and still will run my trusty and light weight Vuelta Corsa Lites until I can get a flo for the front.  
2013-05-13 9:52 PM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
For 50mm, you could probably find a used HED Jet 5 in your price range.  Also, there have been some pretty good deals on these wheels on the internet recently (for new wheels).
2013-05-13 10:40 PM
in reply to: #4740929

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
jgerbodegrant - 2013-05-13 8:47 PM
msteiner - 2013-05-13 12:50 PM

fubar44 - 2013-05-13 11:35 AM

^Does going that deep in the front not affect steering stability when its windy? And yes that does look awesome!

I'm 5'7 and race at 150-155 lbs usually, and it doesn't affect me in most races.  Gusts can be scary, but any wheel outside a box rim will be affected by that.

Let's not talk in generalities with respect to wheels.

That's coming having ridden a Hed Jet 4 front, a Zipp 404, and my current wheel.  Your front wheel's steering will be affected if a crosswind hits a deeper rim.  How does that not make sense?

 

lakelandsledder - 2013-05-13 9:44 PM They look awesome but as others said, you're better off waiting.  I've toyed with the idea myself and although I think the open mold frames are pretty nice, the wheels in this price on Ebay are usually the older "V" design.  I just got the aerojacket for my rear and still will run my trusty and light weight Vuelta Corsa Lites until I can get a flo for the front.  

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.



Edited by msteiner 2013-05-13 10:45 PM
2013-05-14 5:30 AM
in reply to: #4741064

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-13 11:40 PM

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.

You have to take your evidence from "good guesses"

Non-Torroidal rims of the 2000's (like blackwells/PlanetX/Token/whatever) almost always tested much worse than Hed/Zipps. For the most part you have to assume that "Chinarello" copies are not copies of cutting edge tech.

Also, just because you copy a bike / wheel that had tons of time/money spent making sure it's fast, doesn't mean Your specific copy is fast. 

It also doesn't mean it isn't.

It's possible some of the open mold wheels end up just as fast as a hed/zipp/Flo, if only by accident. There's really not any way to know for sure with the current available data... I assure you those factories don't put their wheels into wind tunnels though (unless one of the big companies uses those molds and tests them)

 

If bling is what is important, then they are a great deal.

If going fast is important, then tell me why you aren't saving another $50-$100 for a proven wheel again?

 



Edited by Leegoocrap 2013-05-14 5:32 AM


2013-05-14 5:57 AM
in reply to: #4741064

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-13 11:40 PM
jgerbodegrant - 2013-05-13 8:47 PM
msteiner - 2013-05-13 12:50 PM

fubar44 - 2013-05-13 11:35 AM

^Does going that deep in the front not affect steering stability when its windy? And yes that does look awesome!

I'm 5'7 and race at 150-155 lbs usually, and it doesn't affect me in most races.  Gusts can be scary, but any wheel outside a box rim will be affected by that.

Let's not talk in generalities with respect to wheels.

That's coming having ridden a Hed Jet 4 front, a Zipp 404, and my current wheel.  Your front wheel's steering will be affected if a crosswind hits a deeper rim.  How does that not make sense?

It actually does make sense.  My point is that when making wheel recommendations it is not good to talk in generalities.  Using your point....you can easily be affected by cross-winds even when sporting the profile of a box-type rim.  So if you captivate all aero wheels into being affected by something, you should provide more information so that the person you are helping out can make a more informed decision as to which wheel to purchase.  A person just getting into aero wheels needs to know that there are a lot of things that affect a wheel's stability in wind....they should not be swayed into thinking that all aero wheels are unstable or "scary" as you put it.  Does that make sense?

2013-05-14 6:04 AM
in reply to: #4741064

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-13 11:40 PM

 

lakelandsledder - 2013-05-13 9:44 PM They look awesome but as others said, you're better off waiting.  I've toyed with the idea myself and although I think the open mold frames are pretty nice, the wheels in this price on Ebay are usually the older "V" design.  I just got the aerojacket for my rear and still will run my trusty and light weight Vuelta Corsa Lites until I can get a flo for the front.  

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.

....What????

2013-05-14 6:33 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

If money is tight why buy a new front wheel? Aerojacket is proven to be beneficial.

How much do you think a front wheel will benefit you in say an Oly or HIM?

2013-05-14 6:51 AM
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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-14 12:40 AM

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.



I've field tested a few sets of race wheels, including a no name, non-toroidal 50mm carbon tubular from China that is likely very similar to this front wheel. I don't have a toroidal front but I have tested my regular wheelset and my Hed Alps (55mm). Here is what I found:

Training wheelset (30mm Xero, 16/20) - baseline
50mm carbon tubulars (including disc cover on the rear) - 0.75-1s/km faster
Hed Alps - 1.75-2.0s/km faster

These were tested in essentially zero yaw conditions (calm winds) which is where the Alps tend to perform close to a toroidal wheel but with higher yaw angles, the Alps then perform much worse. So, a rough idea for the front is that it would gain about 0.5s/km over a non aero training wheelset.

Shane
2013-05-14 7:01 AM
in reply to: #4739732

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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

I visited China last year and spent two weeks getting underneath the cultural, social and economic issues.  I also spent a day visiting a factory that makes wheels.  In my opinion and based on my visit, there is no greater risk of manufacturing defect from these wheels made in China than those either made in China and sold via a branded reseller in the West or those manufactured in the West.  On the back of that visit I bought three pairs of wheels and have done over 1k miles on one set of 38mm clinchers and find them absolutely fine.

If they do turn up and have an issue, customer service is nothing like the levels we would normally expect and although companies don't intend to give poor after sales service, they're not staffed for it and response times, process and mistrust levels are high - as in, in the same way that Western consumers often reflexively make the accusations that have been made elsewhere on this thread, an equivalent website in China would reflexively make similar accusations about Western consumers with false complaints trying to get an extra set of free wheels or an unwarranted refund.

Reasonable manufacturing rates are 98% in terms of quality control - if you're one of the 2% it may be a pain but if you're one of the 98% I think it's a good purchase.

Just my opinion but at least based on a bit of research.



2013-05-14 7:14 AM
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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
jgerbodegrant - 2013-05-14 6:04 AM
msteiner - 2013-05-13 11:40 PM

 

lakelandsledder - 2013-05-13 9:44 PM They look awesome but as others said, you're better off waiting.  I've toyed with the idea myself and although I think the open mold frames are pretty nice, the wheels in this price on Ebay are usually the older "V" design.  I just got the aerojacket for my rear and still will run my trusty and light weight Vuelta Corsa Lites until I can get a flo for the front.  

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.

....What????

What part of that question are you struggling with? You're telling me to not speak generalizations about wheels and then make a claim about a wheel you have zero data on. I at least have experience and workout data that shows that my wheelset is faster than staying at stock.
2013-05-14 7:16 AM
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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
Leegoocrap - 2013-05-14 5:30 AM
msteiner - 2013-05-13 11:40 PM

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.

You have to take your evidence from "good guesses"

Non-Torroidal rims of the 2000's (like blackwells/PlanetX/Token/whatever) almost always tested much worse than Hed/Zipps. For the most part you have to assume that "Chinarello" copies are not copies of cutting edge tech.

Also, just because you copy a bike / wheel that had tons of time/money spent making sure it's fast, doesn't mean Your specific copy is fast. 

It also doesn't mean it isn't.

It's possible some of the open mold wheels end up just as fast as a hed/zipp/Flo, if only by accident. There's really not any way to know for sure with the current available data... I assure you those factories don't put their wheels into wind tunnels though (unless one of the big companies uses those molds and tests them)

 

If bling is what is important, then they are a great deal.

If going fast is important, then tell me why you aren't saving another $50-$100 for a proven wheel again?

 

I understand that an open mold wheel isn't going to test as fast as a 404 FC, but assuming it's on par with a Planet X wheel (which is probably the wheel it's copying), aren't we at best a handful of seconds per 40k?As for the money question, like I mentioned earlier, I only paid $125 for my front wheel. I don't think any used front is going to give me ~$300 improvement.
2013-05-14 7:34 AM
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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?

^ Only you can quantify what's "worth it" to you.

 

2013-05-14 8:12 AM
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Subject: RE: What front wheel to choose?
msteiner - 2013-05-14 7:16 AM
Leegoocrap - 2013-05-14 5:30 AM
msteiner - 2013-05-13 11:40 PM

Based on what data?  Does anyone have actual proof that a used front better than an open mold wheel?  As far as I know, no wind tunnel data is present for these.

You have to take your evidence from "good guesses"

Non-Torroidal rims of the 2000's (like blackwells/PlanetX/Token/whatever) almost always tested much worse than Hed/Zipps. For the most part you have to assume that "Chinarello" copies are not copies of cutting edge tech.

Also, just because you copy a bike / wheel that had tons of time/money spent making sure it's fast, doesn't mean Your specific copy is fast. 

It also doesn't mean it isn't.

It's possible some of the open mold wheels end up just as fast as a hed/zipp/Flo, if only by accident. There's really not any way to know for sure with the current available data... I assure you those factories don't put their wheels into wind tunnels though (unless one of the big companies uses those molds and tests them)

 

If bling is what is important, then they are a great deal.

If going fast is important, then tell me why you aren't saving another $50-$100 for a proven wheel again?

 

I understand that an open mold wheel isn't going to test as fast as a 404 FC, but assuming it's on par with a Planet X wheel (which is probably the wheel it's copying), aren't we at best a handful of seconds per 40k?As for the money question, like I mentioned earlier, I only paid $125 for my front wheel. I don't think any used front is going to give me ~$300 improvement.

I'm not saying there's anything "wrong" with the open mold wheels", just that it's old technology and if someone is going to spend about $250 for a front based on what they cost on Ebay I would rather wait a year and buy a Flo.  For myself I would like an aluminum brake track vs. carbon for many reasons.  I see that Farsports has a new design that has the aluminum track and an updated design that may very well be a good deal.    

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