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2013-05-20 7:54 AM

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Subject: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/wisconsin-bill-would-eli...

I figure this one should be an interesting discussion



2013-05-20 8:17 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Exactly what kind of discussion are you looking for?
2013-05-20 8:36 AM
in reply to: KateTri1

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
A discussion on the topic that a Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirements.

2013-05-20 9:27 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Should there be government mandated flu-shots????
2013-05-20 10:25 AM
in reply to: flip18436572

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Dunno, but I believe this is an "other than government" employment thing. They're talking about health providers and nursing home employees.

2013-05-20 10:25 AM
in reply to: flip18436572

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by flip18436572

Should there be government mandated flu-shots????


Its not the government but the employer that requires them as part of the job but rep want to make the practice illegal.

I guess its a good idea not to have them required for the job but also if you are in a high risk job like healthcare wouldn't you run the risk of missing too much work from being sick so you might be fired anyway.


2013-05-20 10:51 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by DanielG

A discussion on the topic that a Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirements.




ok. Well, I read the details and wondering why the congressman would bring this forward.

It sounds like a bill based on his own opinion of the flu shot?
2013-05-20 10:57 AM
in reply to: KateTri1

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by DanielG

A discussion on the topic that a Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirements.




ok. Well, I read the details and wondering why the congressman would bring this forward.

It sounds like a bill based on his own opinion of the flu shot?


I would imagine either that or some of his constituents called/wrote/visited and requested this bill be brought forth. Same as with every other bill they bring up. I can't think of any other way for it to have happened.

2013-05-20 11:01 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Ahh, it's in the top of the article:

Rep. Jeremy Thiesfeldt (R-Fond du Lac) said he began drafting the legislation after several hospital workers and health care contractors in his district complained they were fired after refusing to be vaccinated.
2013-05-20 11:05 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Of anything that I could have thrown in, the piece that I had to point out was:
"Thiesfeldt said one objection he has to mandatory vaccination is that he doesn't think the flu vaccine is effective."
I think the politician should at least provide some statistics and further medical research than stating that little tidbit.
2013-05-20 11:41 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by DanielG

Ahh, it's in the top of the article:

Rep. Jeremy Thiesfeldt (R-Fond du Lac) said he began drafting the legislation after several hospital workers and health care contractors in his district complained they were fired after refusing to be vaccinated.



UW Health - the academic medical center and health system for the University of Wisconsin - requires workers to get vaccinated once a year or provide a medical or religious reason for a waiver. UW Health spokeswoman Lisa Brunette said she was not aware of anyone being fired for refusing a flu shot.

More than 95% of the approximately 30,000 employees at Aurora Health Care are vaccinated, said Adam Beeson, spokesman for the Milwaukee-based nonprofit system. Aurora also honors religious exemptions, and Beeson said no Aurora employee had been fired for refusing a flu shot.

Sounds like one side of the argument isn't telling the truth.

Personally I think people in the health care industry should be vaccinated. It goes along with the whole "do not harm" philosophy. They sterilize surgical equipment and wash their hands all the time. I just see a flu vaccine as another method to protect the health of their patients.


2013-05-20 11:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Does the employee have to pay for the flu shot?

Edit: Too much government is getting pretty old.

Edited by flip18436572 2013-05-20 11:45 AM
2013-05-20 12:33 PM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by DanielG

Ahh, it's in the top of the article:

Rep. Jeremy Thiesfeldt (R-Fond du Lac) said he began drafting the legislation after several hospital workers and health care contractors in his district complained they were fired after refusing to be vaccinated.



They were not aware of that requirement when they went into the field of healthcare work?
2013-05-20 12:35 PM
in reply to: flip18436572

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by flip18436572

Does the employee have to pay for the flu shot?



My husband does not.
2013-05-20 1:01 PM
in reply to: 1stTimeTri

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by 1stTimeTri

Of anything that I could have thrown in, the piece that I had to point out was:
"Thiesfeldt said one objection he has to mandatory vaccination is that he doesn't think the flu vaccine is effective."
I think the politician should at least provide some statistics and further medical research than stating that little tidbit.


It's actually fairly well known that the Flu Vaccine is is NOT effective. It's 30% - 56% effective at best. (depends on where you look). So he is not off base. The reason I've heard that healthcare personnel have to get vaccinated is because they don't want others to get sick. It's not for the employee's health persay.

I think this is a good thing. Everyone is "well, you should have known" and I say what keeps them from continually adding more things that are not working in the name of perceived safety?

Latest flu effectiveness map: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/22/health/flu-update
2013-05-20 2:19 PM
in reply to: Marvarnett

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by Marvarnett

Originally posted by 1stTimeTri

Of anything that I could have thrown in, the piece that I had to point out was:
"Thiesfeldt said one objection he has to mandatory vaccination is that he doesn't think the flu vaccine is effective."
I think the politician should at least provide some statistics and further medical research than stating that little tidbit.


It's actually fairly well known that the Flu Vaccine is is NOT effective. It's 30% - 56% effective at best. (depends on where you look). So he is not off base. The reason I've heard that healthcare personnel have to get vaccinated is because they don't want others to get sick. It's not for the employee's health persay.

I think this is a good thing. Everyone is "well, you should have known" and I say what keeps them from continually adding more things that are not working in the name of perceived safety?

Latest flu effectiveness map: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/22/health/flu-update


The vaccine has a much greater effectiveness with younger healthy adults. So that's 60% of the healthcare workers, and their patients who might benefit from the shot. That's a lot of people. (I'm assuming most employed healthcare workers are not elderly)


2013-05-20 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement

Wow.

My employer (or our insurance co) gives free flu shots in the office every year. I am the only one in my office who does not take the Flu shot. I am also the only one in my office that never gets the flu.

I personally think forcing someone to take a flu shot goes against their rights as an American citizen. I would quit my job before I would do it.

And not just because I don't care for the flu shot. Because I think it is wrong.

 



Edited by Meljoypip 2013-05-20 2:43 PM
2013-05-20 3:09 PM
in reply to: Marvarnett

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by Marvarnett

Originally posted by 1stTimeTri

Of anything that I could have thrown in, the piece that I had to point out was:
"Thiesfeldt said one objection he has to mandatory vaccination is that he doesn't think the flu vaccine is effective."
I think the politician should at least provide some statistics and further medical research than stating that little tidbit.


It's actually fairly well known that the Flu Vaccine is is NOT effective. It's 30% - 56% effective at best. (depends on where you look). So he is not off base. The reason I've heard that healthcare personnel have to get vaccinated is because they don't want others to get sick. It's not for the employee's health persay.

I think this is a good thing. Everyone is "well, you should have known" and I say what keeps them from continually adding more things that are not working in the name of perceived safety?

Latest flu effectiveness map: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/22/health/flu-update


That's what I was looking for - not just a vague statement based off of his own personal opinion.
2013-05-20 3:23 PM
in reply to: 1stTimeTri

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement

I work for one of the companies mentioned in the original article and have taken care of >400 influenza patients over the last 2 years. I fully support mandated vaccinations for those working in health care. 

The manditory vaccine program is not about keeping the employee healthly (although this is a + side effect), it's about not spreading influenza to other patients.

Of the 400 patients with + influenza tests, 300 or so had not been vaccinated.

If you've every actually had Influenza (which is a respiratory viruse that makes you sick as heck and wishing you were dead), you would never question getting a flu shot,) thats why I'm always the first in line

 

The last 2 versions of influenza spread throuth the community like wild fire- litterly doubling our clinic volume in less than  a week. However, these strains were virulent and most patients recovered within a week.

The thought of a truly virulent strain migrating through the community keeps me awake at night- it's that scarry,

 

2013-05-20 3:23 PM
in reply to: Meljoypip

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement

 

I was trying to read up on this topic and ran across this statement HERE:

“Medical ethicist Art Caplan says health care workers' ethical obligation to protect patients trumps their individual rights.”

 Oh really? Well if that is true, then next lets start requiring all of the 'immune system run down, crap eating, non exercising, sickly patients' to give up their cokes and pop-tarts and make them a log at least one 30 minute workout a day, because after all if the health care workers are giving up their rights for them...

What are You willing to give up for your health care workers? What FREEDOMS are you willing to be forced to give up?

Actually, why require this flu shot? Instead, why don't hospitals force healthcare workers to live a healthy lifestyle and build up their immune system?

____

I think THIS comment made a lot of sense:

"You know who’s really losing out by these employees not getting the shots? The drug companies, who produce them and then lobby for forcing people to have them, and the employers who have to pay sick-pay to sick people. You have to admit that this is all a brilliant scheme.

Scare people into flu vaccines every year. Now, it doesn’t work as well anymore, because they’ve used up all the scare-ability on the years that the SARS, Swine-Flu and Bird-Flu’s never hit like they predicted. In the following years after those “pandemics”, when the people didn’t get the vaccines, these drug companies were left with hundreds of millions of dollars in unsold vaccines.

What’s a good way to ensure that doesn’t happen again? Lobby to make it a fire-able offense if an employer requires flu-shots and employees opt out."

____

 

2013-05-20 5:06 PM
in reply to: firstnet911

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by firstnet911

I work for one of the companies mentioned in the original article and have taken care of >400 influenza patients over the last 2 years. I fully support mandated vaccinations for those working in health care. 

The manditory vaccine program is not about keeping the employee healthly (although this is a + side effect), it's about not spreading influenza to other patients.

Of the 400 patients with + influenza tests, 300 or so had not been vaccinated.

If you've every actually had Influenza (which is a respiratory viruse that makes you sick as heck and wishing you were dead), you would never question getting a flu shot,) thats why I'm always the first in line

 

The last 2 versions of influenza spread throuth the community like wild fire- litterly doubling our clinic volume in less than  a week. However, these strains were virulent and most patients recovered within a week.

The thought of a truly virulent strain migrating through the community keeps me awake at night- it's that scarry,

 




This makes sense.


2013-05-20 5:08 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by Meljoypip

 

I was trying to read up on this topic and ran across this statement HERE:

“Medical ethicist Art Caplan says health care workers' ethical obligation to protect patients trumps their individual rights.”

 Oh really? Well if that is true, then next lets start requiring all of the 'immune system run down, crap eating, non exercising, sickly patients' to give up their cokes and pop-tarts and make them a log at least one 30 minute workout a day, because after all if the health care workers are giving up their rights for them...

What are You willing to give up for your health care workers? What FREEDOMS are you willing to be forced to give up?

Actually, why require this flu shot? Instead, why don't hospitals force healthcare workers to live a healthy lifestyle and build up their immune system?

____

I think THIS comment made a lot of sense:

"You know who’s really losing out by these employees not getting the shots? The drug companies, who produce them and then lobby for forcing people to have them, and the employers who have to pay sick-pay to sick people. You have to admit that this is all a brilliant scheme.

Scare people into flu vaccines every year. Now, it doesn’t work as well anymore, because they’ve used up all the scare-ability on the years that the SARS, Swine-Flu and Bird-Flu’s never hit like they predicted. In the following years after those “pandemics”, when the people didn’t get the vaccines, these drug companies were left with hundreds of millions of dollars in unsold vaccines.

What’s a good way to ensure that doesn’t happen again? Lobby to make it a fire-able offense if an employer requires flu-shots and employees opt out."

____

 




I'd agree we could all be more healthy, but that doesn't really negate the case for vaccinating healthcare workers.

Edited by KateTri1 2013-05-20 5:27 PM
2013-05-20 8:34 PM
in reply to: Meljoypip

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by Meljoypip

 

I was trying to read up on this topic and ran across this statement HERE:

“Medical ethicist Art Caplan says health care workers' ethical obligation to protect patients trumps their individual rights.”

 Oh really? Well if that is true, then next lets start requiring all of the 'immune system run down, crap eating, non exercising, sickly patients' to give up their cokes and pop-tarts and make them a log at least one 30 minute workout a day, because after all if the health care workers are giving up their rights for them...

What are You willing to give up for your health care workers? What FREEDOMS are you willing to be forced to give up?

Actually, why require this flu shot? Instead, why don't hospitals force healthcare workers to live a healthy lifestyle and build up their immune system?

____

I think THIS comment made a lot of sense:

"You know who’s really losing out by these employees not getting the shots? The drug companies, who produce them and then lobby for forcing people to have them, and the employers who have to pay sick-pay to sick people. You have to admit that this is all a brilliant scheme.

Scare people into flu vaccines every year. Now, it doesn’t work as well anymore, because they’ve used up all the scare-ability on the years that the SARS, Swine-Flu and Bird-Flu’s never hit like they predicted. In the following years after those “pandemics”, when the people didn’t get the vaccines, these drug companies were left with hundreds of millions of dollars in unsold vaccines.

What’s a good way to ensure that doesn’t happen again? Lobby to make it a fire-able offense if an employer requires flu-shots and employees opt out."

____

 




Because, Immunity doesn't work that way. If you're exposed to the virus, you may or may not get internalization, replication and illness. Sorry, but the best ways to avoid the flu are hand washing followed by immunization. The immunization is the best passive way to avoid the flu.

And, as for being 50% effective; I know most of you bought powerball tickets this week with FAR less assurance that your risk FAR exceeded your benefit. The flu shot carries infinitesimally small risk and a 50% reward. I'll go to the casino with those odds every day.
2013-05-21 5:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Ok - My point was a lot of these people are sick in the first place because they do not take care of their health. WAY less would get the flu or sick if they ate whole food. They would not like us to pass a law taking away their cokes & pop tarts. How does it make sense to FORCE the flu shot on others? But don't get me wrong, I don't want a ban on pop-tarts. It is the taking away of someone's rights, freedoms, I am concerned with, not the actual flu shot.

Edited by Meljoypip 2013-05-21 5:34 AM
2013-05-21 7:03 AM
in reply to: Meljoypip

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Subject: RE: Wisconsin bill would eliminate workplace flu-shot requirement
Originally posted by Meljoypip

Wow.

My employer (or our insurance co) gives free flu shots in the office every year. I am the only one in my office who does not take the Flu shot. I am also the only one in my office that never gets the flu.

I personally think forcing someone to take a flu shot goes against their rights as an American citizen. I would quit my job before I would do it.

And not just because I don't care for the flu shot. Because I think it is wrong.

 




I'm kinda torn on this one:

The employer is saying it's an almost requirement

BUT

It's not a cut and dried requirement. If someone doesn't want to take the shot for whatever reason, why require a note from the Rabbi/Pastor/Witch Doctor/Shaman to avoid it. Isn't the fact that the person doesn't want the shot good enough?

If they didn't have any exceptions, I would be a lot more able to see the "thou shalt in order to work here" as something worth saving.

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