Marathon long run question

It's not so much about how many 20-20+ milers. It's more about the overall consistency of the plan and the overall weekly structure. Meaning, having a solid week of training leading up to the long run and letting that determine how far you go. (a good ballpark is 25-30 percent of your weekly volume is the long run)

I believe it to be important to continually evaluate yourself and let that interpret your plan. 

Previous training has served me well -- I've basically stuck to the same plan now for two marathons and PR'd each one. The 20 & 22 milers felt solid, which is why I wondered if I could improve my time even more by adding another two or three weeks in the training to make room for some more long runs like that. 

I already do speed work, to which I credit both those PRs. 

I'm not thinking of doing anything radical (if it ain't broke, right?) -- for this marathon, I was just gonna add one more 20 mile run and up my 18 mile run to a 19 mile run. Then I saw a lot of other plans that showed something like four 20 milers and another two 18 or 19 mile runs...and wondered if that would be a better idea. 

Just curious what other people thought about it and what they've done in the past.

Hm. Interesting. Currently, my longer runs during the week are long tempo runs, usually @MP, though the longest they get are like, 10 miles I think. 

So you're saying don't up the long long runs, but instead focus on making runs during the week longer? 

YES. To keep those long, long runs remaining in the 25-30 percent range, you pretty much have to get in those mid week medium runs. Doing those significantly improved my long runs. I would venture to say they were the most important part of my marathon build and it sounds like I am not alone.

Heh, yeah, I am a bit of a disciple. But Pfitz and I are not monogamous as I dabble in some others , but the principles are generally pretty similar. 

Now we are getting into the guts of the training stuff. What I strongly suggest is to do some reading to understand the specifics of workouts. What you are doing and why.

I feel Jack Daniel's Running Formula, Pfitz's Advanced Marathoning and even the Hansons Marathon Method.

Is saying you're not going to back door brag still sort of implying that you have results worthy of bragging...thus still a back door brag? 

But I completely agree with what you and Asalzwed are saying.  Basically for marathon training (or increasing run fitness in general), your goal is to run as much as you can without getting hurt.  It's not that important if your mileage is coming from your long runs or your mid week runs...but in general, most people will have success in avoiding injury by spreading out their mileage more evenly.

You should really be asking yourself how many 3-3.5 hour runs you will be doing...

If a 20 miler takes 4-5 hours you are doing more damage than good running that far.

Peak out at 3-3.5 hours for your long run and it doesn't hurt to add one or two extra of those.

For everyone or after reaching some ability? Trying to pull info like that from elites who have likely been running 80+ miles every week for years, likely doing 100-120 or more for a marathon build, and applying that to an age grouper who may peak at 45-55 mpw is a risky proposition. A lot more info about their schedules would be much more helpful. 

I disagree.  As long as your week day miles support those long days your not at any more risk then stopping at 3 hours.  And your recovery isn't necessarily more.  But, again, that assumes you have the miles under you belt to support those efforts.

As my sig line says, it depends.  For someone hitting the bare minimums (which I prefer to see in the range of 9 hours peak weekly running time for a marathon), I like to get them up to at least two or three runs in the three hour range.  I prefer to manage training by time, not distance.  A three hour run can be as short at 13 or 14 miles for a slower runner, or over 20 miles for a faster one.  Either way, I don't care how far they run.  Instead, IMO, the total weekly running time is more important than the single weekly long run.

Yeah, my long runs were in the 3-3:30 range (my last 22 mile run before the marathon was juuuust over 3 hours long, which is probably a smidge too fast to be sensible. I think 1. I was feeling pretty solid anyway so I just ran what felt comfortable and 2. I started slower and dropped to marathon pace at the end). 

I tend to follow the Furman plan, which is three runs a week plus cross training on non-run days and it's suited me well.  Their more advanced plan calls for a couple more long runs than I've had (I think it gets closer to five 20+ milers) but there's also a more detailed plan for the tempo and interval workouts that will most likely up my mileage a bit during the week.

The midweek tempo run was super helpful, I think mostly because I was doing longer runs at marathon pace, so that helped physically and mentally to do those. Like I said, those never got above 10 miles though. I'll check out some of the books/plans you guys mentioned.

Thanks for all the advice!