Intervals question

I would do 800s and 1000s next. Keep the rest the same and do far fewer -- maybe 6 or 7 reps to start.

Also, I think adding tempo runs is really helpful -- run steady for 20 minutes at your threshold pace -- should be less hard than your intervals, so you're not building up any lactic acid in your legs.

I agree with Bear.  You should be doing your intervals at a pace that is faster than your 10K pace.  By doing them at your goal 10K pace it's just like running a 10K but with breaks.  By doing faster paced intervals you are training your body to run at higher speeds, which will result in a faster 10K time.

I agree increase the pace as you become more fit. A little at a time. You want to do the last one as fast as the first one.

I agree with Bear. I think you would need to run faster than your desired 10K pace during intervals to eventually maintain that 10K pace.

What are you training for? What’s your training background? Do you want to improve your 10K pace while running a Tri or for a stand alone 10K?

Jumping in again --

I agree that if you're going to continue with 400s, you need to do them faster than race pace; however, I think you can do the longer intervals at goal race pace.

You do need to do quite a bit of milage to support a 10k pr. What is a typical week like for you?

Thanks for the inputs. I have two sprint tri's behind me this year. I have a Oly coming up in 4 weeks. My run sucks! (sloooow), but remember I am no spring chicken. The sprint races were 5 mile runs and very hilly plus trails. My pace for the first one was 12 min/mile, but I was just taking it easy to finish. For the second tri I pushed a little and did a 11:30 pace. My goal for the 10K Oly is an 11:00 pace, that is why I am doing the intervals at a 10:00 pace. Some of us are just slow runners no matter what we do, but I am trying to improve. The 10:00 440's are done at an avg HR of 85% ( I reach 90% at the end of the lap). I train about 12 hours per week, with 6 on the bike, 3 on the run, 2 on the swim and 2 on strength. I can run all day at a 12 min/mile pace, but as soon as I start increasing that my endurance really suffers. I figure these 440 intervals are a good start. I can now do 24 at a 10:00 pace with a 60 second interval rest. I started at 4 miles and worked up from there over a two week pweriod. I now want to increase the distance I run at that pace by either shortening the rest or lengthening the lap; that is the question. Right now it is my leg muscles fatigueing as I am running the final laps. Allthough I maintain the splits constant, it becomes harder and harder (lactic acid discomfort, mainly) to do so as I approach the end of the session. Whether I shorten the rest or lengthen the lap length, I will probably have to start out at about 5K, as I did when I started this, and work my way back up to 10K. Hope this explains things better. I may never be able to get faster, but I am sure going to give it a try.

I agree with bear too, but with one caveat... You shouldn't be basing your intervals on your goal pace, you should base your intervals on your current pace. If you try to force the intervals, you may be working at too hard of an effort. I'm not saying that you should run faster than your current 10K pace to achieve your goals, but if you pick a target pace, then base intervals on that, you are not training your body according to your current abilities, and you may be overdoing it.

There was a recent discussion about this topic, but I don't remember what thread or how I would even search to find it.

Maybe someone like rocket man or Mike Ricci could chip in on this?

Here's a good one:

http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

That uses Dr. Daniel's VDOT method. It will tell you what speed to run your intervals at based on CURRENT PACE. Don't enter your goal pace.

Unfortunately, it only calculates out to a 10 minute / mile pace. Look around for a VDOT calculator, you might find another one.

Yes, exactly...current pace. Maybe this is the site that had a good explanation of why not to use your goal pace. I have the same problem (i'm slower than 10 minute miles), but the equation is linear, so his methods apply to slower paces as well, I'm just too lazy to figure it out.

Thanks again for the inputs, but .....
There is no way I am going to train based on some mathematical formula applied across the board to all runners. This is ridiculous just like the formula for max HR. By the 220 - AGE formula my max heart rate should be 155; guess what, it is 165! And, that is as actually measured several times this season. I routinely hit 155 during tempo runs. I would guess the VDot formula is as useless. How about this approach to intervals:
For any type training session, if you are fully recovered in 24 hours then you aren't training too hard. So, even if I run 24 x 440 intervals with 60 second rest, and I can do it every day for 4 days, then am I training to hard? Too me, you should run intervals as hard as you can and still meet your volume goal. Like, today I am going to run 220yd intervals for 3 miles using a 30 second rest period. How fast should I run the intervals? Well, as fast as I can and still make the 3 miles. Now if I don't feel like doing it again tomorrow, then I need to back off. I wish Mike would jump in on this.

http://www.simpsonassociatesinc.com/runningmath1.htm

Site explains the math behind the VDOT formula, and why it works better than a generalization.
Also, you say you're running 220 yd intervals for 3 miles, with 30 seconds in between. How fast are those intervals? What's your goal time? As fast as I can and still make the 3 miles, could mean that you do the first 3 blazingly fast, then do the remainder at barely aboveyour regular pace. This is why you have goal times during those intervals. This is also why you should have an idea as to what your capable of doing.

My guess is that he would tell you the VDOT formula isn't useless as I believe he is fan of Jack Daniels and if use properly it might be a very effective way of training. 2^nd I think he would tell you to work on your base a lot more and ditch those short intervals for the moment and "maybe" suggest you to incorporate "some" intensity in the form or tempo or LT runs.

I have been working on my base a lot and probably done less than 10-15 intervals/tempo workouts in the last 8 months and my 10K dropped from 36:20 to 33:20. I don’t know if that tells you something or not but it seems that you already made your choice in terms of how to approach your training. If you think you have to flog yourself with weekly intervals sessions and that you can do those more than a few times a week, go ahead, try it at your own risk..