Desperately need fuel plan for 1st IM

Tagging this to read replies and add one question...

I went to a talk about nutrition and fueling...

The people were really firm that "most people" can only absorb 250 cal/hr no matter how much you are taking in. Any different thoughts on that?

I suggest that you try either Vitargo S2 ( http://genr8speed.com/) or UCan ( http://www.generationucan.com/home.html). I have found them provide a more "even" supply of nutrition (no spikes) for a longer period. I use the Vitargo only because I find it to be more palatable 3-4 hrs into a workout.

You are under fueled

Typically I prescribe a MINIMUM of 250 cals/hr on the bike 150 on the run. You can digest more on the bike since you are not demanding as much from your entire muscular system as you are on the run, therefore more blood can be used in your digestive system.

I recommend taking 250 per hour on the bike for you next long ride, and if you bonk again up it to 300, and so forth. If you are bonking it is most likely a under calorie issue, if you are cramping, it can be a host of other variable but not limited to: poor electrolyte intake, muscular fatigue, dehydrated, etc.

Also add more cals into your breakfast if you haven't done so already. For IM's I usually eat 500-1000 2-3 hours before the race, plenty of time to digest and be absorbed into my system.

Take a gel every 45min to an hour.
Put Perpetuem in your drink bottles.
Have a half of a bar every hour.
Put a banana in you jersey pocket and eat it before you feel hungry.

It sounds like you are expecting different results from the same fueling load.

i'm not training for an IM (yet) - but have you tried different combos of gels/carb sources etc...from reading the back of Gel packs - IIRC they say 15 min prior to exercise, then every 45 minutes during - each one of those packs is 100cal (I think) - the GU website says that bodys can digest about 350 cal an hour so if you are doing a 6 hour ride (6-500cal - rough approx = 3000 cal)...if you are only doing 3 energy gels (there is 300 cals, plus approx 120 cal per 20fl of Gatorade) - you are really undercutting your needs IMHO

theoretically, if you were just relying on GU's - then for a 6hr ride (assuming the basic consumption) - you should probably look to have at least 7-8 (45 min into 6 hours); plus the calories from your gatorade...I like the Stinger Waffles (they have about 160 cals per waffle - http://shop.honeystinger.com/products/Honey-Organic-Stinger-Waffle....

i'm sure others will chime in, who have more experience...

For those 250 cals per hour what do you reccomend? I can stand the Gu's but more than one Gu in one hour is asking a bit too much from my taste buds. Anything you recommend to mix in with the Gu's and/or to carry as drink?

Thanks for the advice. What's in Perpetuem and what kind of Bar would you recommend?

My IM bike nutrition starts in T1 with a 200 calorie dump of hammer gel mixed in a flask with water. Then, every half hour on the bike I consume 100 calories (large date and a chunk of energy bar on the :30 and a gel on the 1:00). I'm also consuming around 100-150 calories an hour in Gatorade depending on how hot it is. At the 3 hour mark (around special needs time) I eat a pop tart and a banana instead of the gel. With thirty minutes to go, I eat another banana. Anything under 300 cal/hr for me and I feel empty inside when I get to T2. I'm a male, 6'1 168 lbs. I'd say you're waaaaay under fueling for a six hour ride.

I really don't think you're under fueled. I think its the type of fuel and sugars you're taking. We're the same size and when I do my long bricks 7-9hrs. I use Hammer perpetum(solids) one at every 1/2 hr , that's 67cal per hr . I do this for the first 2 1/2 hrs, (also taking endurolyte caps, rate depending on temp, usually 1-2 per hr) On hour 3 a take 1 hammer gel(no perpetum), then hour 4 start the perpetum again. I drink only water. I am a firm believer in less is better. If you go out on a IM and try to take in 300 cals per hr I believe you will be in big trouble before you get off the bike. Also you NEVER want to mix sugars with whatever you're taking. Read the label if one in sucrose one fructose, one malodextrin, you're going to have problems with insulin spikes and some serious bonking.You definitely want to practice your nutrition before race day and know what works, then trust your plan. Everyone is different, and yes the body can assimilate 250-300 calories per hour, but the more stress you put your body under the less(calories) it can tolerate. Just food for thought.

have you tried the stinger waffles? (I found some at a local sports store); or maybe an energy bar cut up into pieces that you could easily grab and chew? there are also things like the energy beans (like jelly beans) or the gel chews - which you could try

Edited by austhokie 2013-07-30 12:45 PM

Either way you need to calculate the nutrition needed (calories). Use a gel flask if it helps, or switch to another form of nutrition, such as Heed or Infinit. My personal preference is Infinit, but everyone's digestive system responds differently and you need to try this in training to see what works best for you.

I'd been using Gu for many years but can't imagine eating that much of it for a HIM/IM. But for the run, I NEED to have at least one blueberry-pomegranate Roctane. (caffeine!) in my belt.

Redundant, but definitely take the time to see what works for you. For YEARS on long-distance rides I went with what the Internet wisdom told me: for my weight, I needed to be consuming 300 cal/hr. It worked OK, but I always felt sluggish. Now I use 200-225 cal/hr. and that's my sweet spot. It makes a huge difference for me.

I'm lucky in that my body mainly just needs the calories in that amount per hour, the format doesn't matter too much as long as it's mostly carbohydrates w/ a little protein thrown in when time in the saddle gets big (over 8 hrs. to multi day).

Experiment, experiment, experiment.

EXCELLENT advice!!!! Also, if you have trouble with gels, you should try what the other post suggested, test UCAN or Gener8. They are not simple sugars and many people can handle them better than drinks/gu that are maltodextrin based.

There are two (maybe three problems here) - CHO, Fluid and Sodium.

Race fueling basics are that you need to you to take in simple carbohydrates (CHO), fluids and sodium and limit fat, fiber, protein, artificial sweeteners and vitamins, all of which can cause GI distress. Essentially the purpose of race day fueling is to take get what you need and avoid what you don't (this isn't the time to be concerned about calories or nutritional density -- its putting things in your body that will help you go faster and make sure that nutrition is not a limiter). Research shows that your body best absorbs nutrition that has a variety of low to high glycemic carbohydrates, such as fructose, maltodextrin and dextrose.

In general (based on a 160 lb male), you need to get in at least 60 grams of CHO per hour for an iron man and, based on an averge sweat rate, 32 oz of fluid and 600 - 1200 mg of sodium (32 oz of fluid loss equals 1.5 bottles of fluid per hour).

If you are doing a WTC event they will be serving Perform. One bottle has 24 oz of fluid, 51 g of CHO and 570 mg of sodium. Perform is a really good choice for fluid, however you are going to need to supplement with gels / bars to get your CHO and sodium intake up. Onec again, if this is a WTC event there will be Bonk Breaker bars on course. While Bonk Breaker bars have 35g of CHO, they also have 2g of fiber, 8g of protein and 9 g of fat, which can make them really tough on the GI system. I like Power Bars, which have 45g of CHO, 200mg of sodium and only 3 g of fat. Its good to use bars on the bike as they can help you feel full throughout the race.

On the WTC run course is Perform and GU Gels (both regular and Roctane). Regular GU gels have 20-25 g of CHO and 40-50 mg of sodium. GU Roctane gels have 25g of CHO and 125 mg of sodium. Regular GU gels have a very poor electrolyte profile, GU Roctanes are better but not fantastic. Personally I suggest using Power Bar Gels, which have 27-28 g of CHO and 200 mg of sodium. I also like using Clif Shot Bloks or Honey Stinger Chews on the run.

Fig Newmans (the organic copy-cat or Fig Newtons) changed my life on the bike!!! 2 little squares pack 110 calories (vs 90 from the Nabisco version) and are really good to my stomach. I've been working on a combination of these, Honey Stinger gels, Perpetuem, Perform, Honey Stinger chews, salt pills, and these delicious little energy-cookies the girlie makes for me. Probably keeping around 250-ish calories an hour...

Edited by julio26pt2 2013-07-30 12:53 PM

I have to hugely disagree with a lot of this. Setting aside the number of calories, taking 1-2 endurolyte caps per hour gets you no where near the lectrolytes you need. An endurolyte capsule as 25mg of sodium (Hammer gels have no sodium, perpetum solids have no sodium but fat and protein, which cause GI distress) taking even 2 per hour gets you nowhere near the sodium you need.

Then there's the "mixing sugars" idea. I know Hammer promotes this but there is no good science on this.

The one thing you have correct is that the more stress you put on the body, the less the body can digest. The solution here is not to stop ingesting but rather to regulate heat or intensity stress so that the body can continue to process the fluid, sodium and fluids it needs for a 10+ hour day.

This user's post has been ignored.

A 24 ounce bottle of gatorade is about 150 calories. Each gel about 100 calories, so you're taking in 900 calories in 6 hours if my math is correct. What are you eating *before* you ride? It sounds like you are way underfueled.

Given a month, you don't have much time to experiment and you need to find out what works and how much works...Really, you only have 2 more long rides, so plan on doing some experimentation on your shorter rides and runs.

I would experiment, especially on some of your shorter rides with different options. You already know how you digest gatorade and gels. Try some solid fuels. Try some powerbars, larabars, clif bars, payday candy bars, fig newtons, etc. I trained and raced with granola bars and nutrigrain bars because I'm cheap and they taste a lot better than powerbars. I also do Austin crackers (cheese or peanut butter). A payday or package of Austin crackers is 200-250 calories. The nutrigrain bars are around 100-150 calories I think. I'll supplement with powerbar and some gatorade and this is what I've done for both of my ironman races. For me at least, having the option of solid food and something that isn't as sweet as gatorade/powerbar/gels is good. Avoid eating for 2-3 hours before a 2-hour ride, and then try some of these about a half hour into the ride and see how your stomach responds for the rest of the ride and the hour after.

Have you experimented with run nutriton too? Given a choice of cookies or a gel, I take the cookies. I also eat the fruit and pretzels instead of gels and gatorade.

Keep in mind that your stomach may react differently on race day than it does during a training day. What I'm suggesting here is that you determine what foods you can/cannot eat so you aren't taking chances on race day.

For me, an IM is a long, slow, sustained effort. My RPE is usually around 2-3. As a result, my body does a great job of absorbing the ~300 cal/hr. If I try to do the same 300cal/hr for an Oly, I get bloated. We all have different NEEDS, and those needs are often wrapped around a lot of personal WANTS. For instance, during an IM, I WANT something somewhat recognizable as food at special needs, hence the pop tart and banana, and again before getting off the bike. I know the run is going to be mostly gels and liquid, so getting some solids down on the bike is psychologically helpful. I also WANT something solid at run special needs so I put a few things in there to choose from, pop tart, fig newtons, a few dates, etc... Does my body NEED the solid food......no......all it needs are the calories. But the day is long, and through training and a few races I've learned hat I can stomach/absorb the solids at a lower RPE with no problem. So I eat the solids at the prescribed times. Others like to go with as little as possible, maybe due to the logistics of carrying it or they can't process solids or whatever. Lots of good advice being given so far in this thread, with only a few suspect assertions. You still have time to figure it out. I'd start by asking yourself how you feel and following your bodies cues. Take more food and calories with you. When you want some, EAT IT!

I'm about your size.

my first thought is you aren't eating enough. remember Eat Early and Eat Often!

I would eat at least 1 powerbar, 3 stinger waffles and chomps on a long ride like that.

160 x 3
250
100

= 830 CAL

vs 90 x 3 = 270 CAL

* not counting the fluid calories in Gatorade

Honestly you should be taking in 2-3 gels per hour over that ride plus whats in the sports drink (which Gatorade is a poor choice)

Looks like you're heading to Expedition Man? if so you and you're looking to change just for the sake of it might as well look at Heed rather Perpetuem because that's what is going to be on course. Hammer gel's as well, not Gu. go to Hammer's web site for the nutiriton info. good luck.

For a six-hour ride, try 4-6 Gatorades and carry two flasks with 4 gels each. Take small amounts of each regularly.

Alternatively, use a concentrated bottle of a drink like Infinit (basically you make it a 'watery' gel by concentrating it) or a homemade maltodextrin drink. For 6 hours, you likley want to be taking somewhere in the (admittedly very broad) 1200-2000cal range, mostly (or entirely) through carbohydrates. Some people may get by on a bit less. Some may be best with more. All I can tell is that you aren't taking enough at the moment, but you are sitting at about 600cal.


Edit: If they are providing Heed on the course, try using that instead of Gatorade for your sports drink. I would still carry my own gels for the ride just because I can choose the flavors and it's easier not to stop for those on the bike. On the run, I take my chances and suck down the chocolate-banana gel if that's all they have. Warning: IMO, Heed tastes like @$$ and I only ever drink it during races.

Edited by JohnnyKay 2013-07-30 3:04 PM