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2013-07-30 3:33 PM

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Subject: Enders Game Controversy

This makes me sad, because 'Enders Game' has always been one of my favourite books. I had no idea about Orson Scott Cards personal views or affiliations prior to hearing a spot on CBC radio about this the other week, and I was very much looking forward to seeing the movie this fall. The authors personal views never came out in the book and I would go so far as to say that it espouses tolerance in some ways.. (re: Ender sticking up for Bean...etc)

I am now very Torn.....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/enders-game-gay-response-_...



2013-07-30 3:57 PM
in reply to: justinfss

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Master
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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
I don't really understand why you or anyone else is torn about this, and I don't see any controversy.

Lionsgate is quoted in the article as saying, "We obviously do not agree with the personal views of Orson Scott Card...However, they (Card's views) are completely irrelevant to the discussion of Ender's Game"

I couldn't agree more. While I completely disagree with Card's views on gay marriage, his views don't change the fact that I enjoyed this book (and many others by him). It also doesn't change the fact that I would like to see this movie. It looks like it may be well done, unlike what happened to Startship Troopers (another favorite book of mine.)

So he has views that oppose yours. So what? Why would you let that ruin something that you enjoy?
2013-07-30 3:59 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
Originally posted by justinfss


This makes me sad, because 'Enders Game' has always been one of my favourite books. I had no idea about Orson Scott Cards personal views or affiliations prior to hearing a spot on CBC radio about this the other week, and I was very much looking forward to seeing the movie this fall. The authors personal views never came out in the book and I would go so far as to say that it espouses tolerance in some ways.. (re: Ender sticking up for Bean...etc)

I am now very Torn.....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/enders-game-gay-response-_...




I actually knew about his views long before the movie was made and haven't read Ender's Game as such - while i believe people have the right to express their opinions, I also have a right not to support people/organizations who beliefs do not conforn to mine - its part of the reason I no longer eat at Chik-Fil-A (although, I was never really a huge fan of it anyways)

ETA - one of my biggest issues with OSC is that he is on the board for National Organization of Marriage - which is actively campaigning against gay marriage through-out the country - so he isn't just speaking words I disagree with, he is actively supporting an organization that I disagree with - and any money from the movie that goes to him has to potential to end up in their pockets or other organizations I disagree with

There are many authors I won't read, actors who's movies I won't see etc because of it

Edited by austhokie 2013-07-30 4:12 PM
2013-07-30 4:25 PM
in reply to: austhokie

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy

By boycotting Ender's Game, the LGBT community is also boycotting "a company that is proud to have recognized same-sex unions and domestic partnerships within its employee benefits policies for many years."  Interestingly, boycotting two companies (Lionsgate and Chik-Fil-A) with polar opposite views on domestic partnerships and employee benefits.  What's more important?  Royalties to the author or supporting a LGBT friendly company?

 


2013-07-30 4:36 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
Originally posted by Hook'em

By boycotting Ender's Game, the LGBT community is also boycotting "a company that is proud to have recognized same-sex unions and domestic partnerships within its employee benefits policies for many years."  Interestingly, boycotting two companies (Lionsgate and Chik-Fil-A) with polar opposite views on domestic partnerships and employee benefits.  What's more important?  Royalties to the author or supporting a LGBT friendly company?

 





I kinda see Lionsgate's statement as talking out both sides of their mouth...they are saying yes we support the LGBT community, but at the same time optioning producing a film by an author who is vehemently anti-gay...kinda seems a bit hypocritical to me...
2013-07-30 5:22 PM
in reply to: austhokie

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
Originally posted by austhokie

Originally posted by Hook'em

By boycotting Ender's Game, the LGBT community is also boycotting "a company that is proud to have recognized same-sex unions and domestic partnerships within its employee benefits policies for many years."  Interestingly, boycotting two companies (Lionsgate and Chik-Fil-A) with polar opposite views on domestic partnerships and employee benefits.  What's more important?  Royalties to the author or supporting a LGBT friendly company?

 





I kinda see Lionsgate's statement as talking out both sides of their mouth...they are saying yes we support the LGBT community, but at the same time optioning producing a film by an author who is vehemently anti-gay...kinda seems a bit hypocritical to me...


I don't see it as hypocritical. The work itself isn't anti-gay, as far as I can tell (I'm only about 3/4 of the way through it). I think it's fine for books and movies to be viewed on their own merits as stories without regard to the author's personal views. The Narnia books are pretty blatently religious in nature, while the Golden Compass books are often viewed as being anti-Catholic. But they're both good stories that deserved to be made into movies, no matter where you fall on the religious debate. That the author may hold views that are contrary to the views of the studio shouldn't really matter, IMO, as long as the work itself isn't offensive. They're in the business of selling good stories.





2013-07-30 5:33 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by austhokie

Originally posted by Hook'em

By boycotting Ender's Game, the LGBT community is also boycotting "a company that is proud to have recognized same-sex unions and domestic partnerships within its employee benefits policies for many years."  Interestingly, boycotting two companies (Lionsgate and Chik-Fil-A) with polar opposite views on domestic partnerships and employee benefits.  What's more important?  Royalties to the author or supporting a LGBT friendly company?

 





I kinda see Lionsgate's statement as talking out both sides of their mouth...they are saying yes we support the LGBT community, but at the same time optioning producing a film by an author who is vehemently anti-gay...kinda seems a bit hypocritical to me...


I don't see it as hypocritical. The work itself isn't anti-gay, as far as I can tell (I'm only about 3/4 of the way through it). I think it's fine for books and movies to be viewed on their own merits as stories without regard to the author's personal views. The Narnia books are pretty blatently religious in nature, while the Golden Compass books are often viewed as being anti-Catholic. But they're both good stories that deserved to be made into movies, no matter where you fall on the religious debate. That the author may hold views that are contrary to the views of the studio shouldn't really matter, IMO, as long as the work itself isn't offensive. They're in the business of selling good stories.



I guess I can't just separate the work and the author...its the same with Marion Zimmer Bradley - I won't read her work anymore, after discovering that her husband was a paedophile and she knew about it/never reported it
2013-07-30 5:36 PM
in reply to: justinfss

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
If I were Lion's Gate even if this protest weren't going to happen I would publish such a piece and get a whisper campaign going in some vein like this.

Good Lord, look at all the publicity for this movie the newspapers are ginning up, not to mention you with this thread, that Lion's Gate didn't even have to pay for.

Excellent use of publicity money for a movie I didn't even know was coming out.

2013-07-30 6:01 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
Originally posted by Hook'em

By boycotting Ender's Game, the LGBT community is also boycotting "a company that is proud to have recognized same-sex unions and domestic partnerships within its employee benefits policies for many years."  Interestingly, boycotting two companies (Lionsgate and Chik-Fil-A) with polar opposite views on domestic partnerships and employee benefits.  What's more important?  Royalties to the author or supporting a LGBT friendly company?

Sounds like they cancel each other out so it should be good to go. 

I think all the boycotting to push public and individuals opinions is pretty junior high.  Last I checked in America people were allowed to have opinions.  If you don't like their opinions then don't hang out with them.

If you didn't patronize any establishments that didn't agree with your personal views on everything then you'd likely be living in the country surviving off the land.

2013-07-30 6:31 PM
in reply to: #4817102

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
Good point DanielG! Some good word of mouth and buzz coming out of this, lionsgate is probably rubbing their hands together very greedily.

As to why I am torn, I think it is pretty clear, we all think we live in democracy's still, but I think our independant voices get drowned out by the Money these days more often than not. So in essence this is truly a way to get your opinion across, by putting your money where your mouth is. Now I do believe that everyone is allowed to have an opinion and should be able to voice them. More importantly though I believe in equality , and for me this is what the LGBT marriage issues you guys are having down there to the south are, simply an equality discussion.

So I guess that I may have answered myself here, since Gay Marriage is permitted in Canada, I should be good to go see it? I don't know. It still upsets me, because even though the world is slowly changing (re: The POPE this week!) there is still so much Hate and Fear being spread and sewn across the earth.

Disclaimer- not referring to a specific group, this is a humanity problem.
2013-07-30 7:23 PM
in reply to: justinfss

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy

Originally posted by justinfss Good point DanielG! Some good word of mouth and buzz coming out of this, lionsgate is probably rubbing their hands together very greedily. As to why I am torn, I think it is pretty clear, we all think we live in democracy's still, but I think our independant voices get drowned out by the Money these days more often than not. So in essence this is truly a way to get your opinion across, by putting your money where your mouth is. Now I do believe that everyone is allowed to have an opinion and should be able to voice them. More importantly though I believe in equality , and for me this is what the LGBT marriage issues you guys are having down there to the south are, simply an equality discussion. So I guess that I may have answered myself here, since Gay Marriage is permitted in Canada, I should be good to go see it? I don't know. It still upsets me, because even though the world is slowly changing (re: The POPE this week!) there is still so much Hate and Fear being spread and sewn across the earth. Disclaimer- not referring to a specific group, this is a humanity problem.

I agree with the bolded.  It's really sad.

I also think you guys are right about the publicity piece.  I honestly have never heard of this guy, the books, or the movie.  However due to this thread which is part of the "word of mouth and buzz being stirred by the controversy" I have now heard of him and know there's a movie. 

btw, I re-read my post earlier and it sounds like I'm calling you Junior High.  To clarify, that wasn't my intent.  I was more broadly talking about the "boycott everything I don't agree with" push that seems to be going on around the world on both sides of these hot button issues.

On a little bit of a side note, social media is absolutely amazing when it comes to stuff like this.  We as individuals have so much more power today than ever in history.  If somebody gets treated bad at a restaurant today they can instantly tell hundreds, if not thousands of people of the experience and cause noticeable impact. 



2013-07-30 7:23 PM
in reply to: justinfss

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Subject: RE: Enders Game Controversy
I've encountered some of OSC's views in the past, but hadn't heard about this. It doesn't make a difference to me; I loved the books and can respect him for taking action on his beliefs even if I strongly disagree with them. If he sat on the couch and did nothing but spout views that he doesn't back-up with action, I wouldn't be able to respect him. As it is, at least I can perceive him as sincere in his beliefs, and that allows me to disagree while still regarding him decently. I agree with some of his stated views on social and political issues, and I disagree with others. Can I call him and ask that he uses the $0.50 in royalties he gets from my ticket cost to support something I agree with and not for anti-gay activities?

I'll see the movie because it interests me, and I'll still have my gay friends over for dinner and go shooting with them when we have the same days off. I'd like to think that doesn't make me a hypocrite, but maybe someone else will disagree with me.
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