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2013-08-04 8:39 AM

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Subject: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
OK, I've committed to doing this race. I'm looking forward to the many challenges of the event. Since there are a dozen people signed up for this race and I'm a rookie to the venue, how about some insight?

I've watched several videos about the 'Wall' and think conserving energy prior to the attempt is going to be key. It is a 'race' however, and I don't want to dog it too much.
It seems that taking a line on the right during the final ascent over the cobblestones offers the least bad road. I will likely try to power up that section (at 3mph-ha). I would imagine there is some luck involved, as anyone can stall in front of you and take you out.

Looking at the climbs is daunting...

I already have a compact crank on both my bikes but I'm trying to decide on 12/25 or 11/28 for gearing. I have pretty much decided on the road bike (Masi), not the tribike (P2). My bike handling skills are likely not up to the descents and I was even on the brakes a bit at IMLP in '12 going down Keene. I used the 11/28 for Placid and never felt like I ran out of gears but these look to be much steeper and I think I'm talking myself into the 11/28.

Let's get this started!


2013-08-04 3:05 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread

I think you are right about the gears.  The hills are longer and steeper than IMLP.  There are several that will make you wince, but the main ones to prepare for mentally are the first climb out of Westernport all the way to the top of Savage Mountain.  There are several "sections" and the last one features a dancing gorilla at the top where they take your time split...it is probably in the 20 percent range.  Then, there is Killer Miller 3/4 of the way through the course.  It is long and everyone comes out of the saddle.  Nearly everyone cries out for their momma, or deity of choice.

Dale, so glad you made the plunge.  This is a race worth remembering!

2013-08-05 12:00 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread

Not this year for me, but the day is coming soon for this course.

Use the 28. I would. No one ever has not used gears they brought with. I didn't use a couple bottom gears at Quassy, but this thing has me thinking about shrinking the small ring in addition to using the 11-28.

Should be pretty well rested for the ascent with The Wall as it's in the first half of the race and much of what comes before is downhill. But, The Wall is only part of a much bigger climb. You'll be working well before you get to it. And long after that as the top of The Wall is not nearly the top of the hill. Work on attacking in the middle and later parts of your bigger intervals. Learn to recover from going really hard while still going hard. Also do some high Z4 and VO2 (Z5) intervals to get used to working that hard for more extended periods.

Placid and Quassy aren't that great for comparison. Quassy hills were a fairly simple task of using the right gear and motoring right up. These ones will be changing grades all over the place and be substantially steeper. Quite seriously think about gearing that you can use at 3-4 mph, not just for The Wall, but the other hills as well as you're really just getting going with them at that point. Some Wisconsin back roads rides have put me down under 5 mph at times, and I passed a LOT of people then. By all accounts, this course sounds like that. Quassy was relatively tame by comparison after training on these.

2013-08-05 12:43 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Originally posted by brigby1

Not this year for me, but the day is coming soon for this course.

Use the 28. I would. No one ever has not used gears they brought with. I didn't use a couple bottom gears at Quassy, but this thing has me thinking about shrinking the small ring in addition to using the 11-28.

Should be pretty well rested for the ascent with The Wall as it's in the first half of the race and much of what comes before is downhill. But, The Wall is only part of a much bigger climb. You'll be working well before you get to it. And long after that as the top of The Wall is not nearly the top of the hill. Work on attacking in the middle and later parts of your bigger intervals. Learn to recover from going really hard while still going hard. Also do some high Z4 and VO2 (Z5) intervals to get used to working that hard for more extended periods.

Placid and Quassy aren't that great for comparison. Quassy hills were a fairly simple task of using the right gear and motoring right up. These ones will be changing grades all over the place and be substantially steeper. Quite seriously think about gearing that you can use at 3-4 mph, not just for The Wall, but the other hills as well as you're really just getting going with them at that point. Some Wisconsin back roads rides have put me down under 5 mph at times, and I passed a LOT of people then. By all accounts, this course sounds like that. Quassy was relatively tame by comparison after training on these.




appreciate the comments, Ben...I need all the help I can get. I, not you, am 'the brick with a parachute' and that won't help in the hills of MD.
(nice Oly BTW, very cool trophy)

I will do some Z4 stuff on a regular basis and have added a 1/2 mile hill at 15% (ranges from 10-25%) that I'll also do weekly-multiple times. And I am going with the 11/28 cassette.
Wish you were going so I could buy you that beer, perhaps another venue...
Dale
2013-08-08 8:08 AM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Thanks Dale. One of these times we'll be out on the same race.
2013-08-11 7:43 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Tried the 70.0 ride on Sat and the 30.0 ride today. I added the climb up Wisp today at an average on 12% grade for "fun".

Took the roadbike. Blew my tire out on Sat at mile 50.

That is "oh for two" to finish the 55 brutal miles. First time was at Savagecamp where I broke a spoke on the steepest portion of McAndrews Hill.

I'm heading out once more before the race. Need to finish the 55 miles.

(I also found out that THE WALL is a bad idea with old tires and pouring rain).


2013-08-16 2:14 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Origin
That is "oh for two" to finish the 55 brutal miles. First time was at Savagecamp where I broke a spoke on the steepest portion of McAndrews Hill.

I'm heading out once more before the race. Need to finish the 55 miles.



third time lucky,Mike!

You will finish the 55 miles on race day, without a doubt...keep at it and I hope to see you there. It's getting closer...

I will be doing a steady diet of hills for the next month, yum!
Dale
2013-08-24 2:54 PM
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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
I did my hilly 20M loop today with my tri-bike and am thinking that if I can improve my bike handling skills weaving
up the road with a bit more dexterity, I may bring that bike. It already has an 11/28 cassette on it and my carbon race
wheels.

Interesting that MANY people bring the lighter carbon wheels but the race site STRONGLY discourages the use of them due to
the possibility of melting them. Wow...

What skills would be most useful to practice for this course. I'm told there are some sharp bends that occur during the descents.
It seems that being able to hold the bike upright while spinning and swerving up a small street would be useful. Not very good
kicking a tire and going down just because you can't balance and turn the bike at the same time. Ha-that'll be me...


Does anyone with experience want to comment on the carbon wheel situation?

Edited by dtoce 2013-08-24 2:56 PM
2013-08-24 3:47 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Wanted to jump in here and join you guys - I had been waffling on doing Savageman for the 2nd time most of this season, then a business trip came up the week before back in DC, so the flight was covered, and after two mediocre 70.3 efforts I decided I'd try to salvage my season with a solid 6-week training block leading up to a weekend at Deep Creek Lake. Then when registering, I decided screw it, why not go all-in on the 100 while I'm there. So I am now totally focused on being in my best shape of the year for three weekends from now.

On the carbon wheel issue, it sounds like there are some off-brands that overheat under extensive braking at speed - if you have name-brand wheels with good pads (the latest from Zipp or SwissStop) you should be fine. I'm planning on riding Firecrests with the latest Zipp Pads on my road bike, and will test it all out on some descents here in Colorado before heading out. I used the road bike my first time there and will be doing so for the same reason this time - I'm not going to win the race, and I enjoy riding my road bike much more than my tri bike, and the Savageman courses are so awesome that I want to enjoy the experience as much as possible.

Based on my first experience, I think the most important training to have for the 70 is the ability to put out big watts for a few minutes to get up the really steep pitches, early, in the middle, and late in the ride. Being a confident descender is next, but I don't recall a large number of sharp turns, other than a couple coming back down Old Savage Mt - if you can get comfortable holding a fast line through long, sweeping curves, you'll mostly be OK.

Have fun wrapping up training these last three weeks.
2013-08-26 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Originally posted by coxma22, why not go all-in on the 100 while I'm there. ...

Have fun wrapping up training these last three weeks.


Matt
Very nice. Doing the 100-I salute you!

Are you going to go easy Saturday and race Sunday or just try to survive the weekend?
I ask, because I did my first Oly this year at Quassy and raced it-following with the 1/2IM the next day to
earn my 'full revolution'medal and I had the best experience during the 1/2. It was never a rush and I enjoyed
the heck out of the hilly bike (nothing like the hills of Savageman, though...).

Just understand that even doing a long training day/easy race day Saturday will put some fatigue in your legs, so
adjust accordingly.

And best of luck!
Dale

Edited by dtoce 2013-08-26 5:47 PM
2013-08-31 5:37 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
I have watched this video 20 times...after all, who knows the 'wall' better than Kyle Yost?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqPJ7WmPfi4

I intend to make an effort to meet this man and shake his hand. It may be my last chance with
the change of ownership...He has done a fantastic job with this race and there is already
a legacy built.

The event is certainly known here in CT, but people are a bit intimidated, I think...

I CANNOT WAIT!!


2013-09-01 6:10 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread

I didn't realize there was an official thread.

I've done about all I can do to make myself ready. I've worked all our local climbs here in Boulder (Superjames, Lickskillet, Lee Hill, etc), setup my roadie with good gearing, and have done a lot of short intervals and long climbs. I would really love to pre-ride the course, but I'll have to settle for some Westernport practice a few days before the race.

This race is gonna be a hoot!
2013-09-04 9:09 AM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Even though I have ascended the Wall once successfully, it makes my palms sweat to watch the videos. Kyle makes it look so easy.

I just hammered out my last weekend of climbing, or at least what we have here in Loudoun County.

In the last 8 weeks, I have done more hilly rides and sought out every hill that I could find. I hope that I am ready, although I am 8 lbs heavier than I wanted.

This past long weekend's rides
Friday - 30 m - 1500'
Sat - 66 m - 5700' climbing (Both sides of Mt Weather)
Mon - 50 m - 3000' climbing (Stumptown & Taylorstown Twice)

Now, I just need to focus and relax. The last time that I was this excited about a race was right before IM CDA.




2013-09-04 9:23 AM
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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Even though I have ascended the Wall once successfully, it makes my palms sweat to watch the videos. Kyle makes it look so easy.

I just hammered out my last weekend of climbing, or at least what we have here in Loudoun County.

In the last 8 weeks, I have done more hilly rides and sought out every hill that I could find. I hope that I am ready, although I am 8 lbs heavier than I wanted.

This past long weekend's rides
Friday - 30 m - 1500'
Sat - 66 m - 5700' climbing (Both sides of Mt Weather)
Mon - 50 m - 3000' climbing (Stumptown & Taylorstown Twice)

Now, I just need to focus and relax. The last time that I was this excited about a race was right before IM CDA. (So excited, it is worth posting twice!)






Edited by pga_mike 2013-09-04 9:23 AM
2013-09-06 10:00 AM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
This is my first time for Savageman, looking forward to it. Did Eagleman earlier this summer, so this will be the other extreme for vertical gains.

We've been riding around the Philly area for preparation, with a few rides specifically looking for hills. It doesn't take much to find hills where we are, though they are nowhere near the length of what we'll see next week.

Going with the road bike, which may not descend as fast, but I figure it climbs better, and is a bit lighter. Tried a Wheelbuilder disc-cover, but the clearance wasn't there, even though I measured and it looked good.

I've heard that you don't have much time to be in aero position anyway, so given the choice, the majority seem to go with road bikes.


2013-09-08 4:59 PM
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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
edited to delete double post


Edited by dtoce 2013-09-08 5:05 PM


2013-09-08 5:04 PM
in reply to: tcj103

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
getting excited now

practiced Hatch Hill here again, and set a PR. Here's the strava comparisons

http://www.strava.com/segments/hatch-hill-674875

I like the comment on strava 'this segment has been flagged as hazardous'

http://app.strava.com/segments/savageman-westernport-wall-763032

I have practiced enough with the tribike, so I'm bringing the P2 with my carbon race wheels-
did a lot of stopping and pushing descents and feel more comfortable with the front brake,
which hold the majority of the stopping power

-weather at this point says: low of 48, high 68-brrrrrrr, but no rain...yet
planning on various situations and clothing options...decisions, decisions

anyone know if you can bring a bucket to sit on in the transition area?

probably going with the full wetsuit rather than the sleeveless, but I'm bringing them both
most importantly, I'm in the right frame of mind and plan to make it up that 4 block segment 'Wall' segment
and then on to the 7 mile 'Big Savage' climb.

Bring it on!


2013-09-10 7:40 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread

The bike is about to go into the airline box...

Anyone up for a get-together for dinner, maybe Fri evening after registration? I have never been to Deep Creek Lake, so I can't suggest a venue.
2013-09-10 8:18 PM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
I have patients to see all day and won't get to Philly until late, late Friday...and MD on Saturday...

see you in transition??
Dale
2013-09-11 11:06 AM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread

Originally posted by dtoce getting excited now practiced Hatch Hill here again, and set a PR. Here's the strava comparisons http://www.strava.com/segments/hatch-hill-674875I like the comment on strava 'this segment has been flagged as hazardous' http://app.strava.com/segments/savageman-westernport-wall-763032I have practiced enough with the tribike, so I'm bringing the P2 with my carbon race wheels- did a lot of stopping and pushing descents and feel more comfortable with the front brake, which hold the majority of the stopping power -weather at this point says: low of 48, high 68-brrrrrrr, but no rain...yet planning on various situations and clothing options...decisions, decisions anyone know if you can bring a bucket to sit on in the transition area? probably going with the full wetsuit rather than the sleeveless, but I'm bringing them both most importantly, I'm in the right frame of mind and plan to make it up that 4 block segment 'Wall' segment and then on to the 7 mile 'Big Savage' climb. Bring it on!

 

You can bring a bucket to transition...the bikes are racked in a parking lot so you'll be on asphalt when you change shoes etc.  It is a short run up from the lake and up a few steps -- maybe 30-45 seconds -- to the bike racks but remember to pack a towel to clear the sand off your feet.  Also, you may want to opt to ride with shoe covers or socks.  The water is not ever too cold, but toes are an extremity and the first segment of the ride is a pretty long, shaded descent -- feet can get sore/cold.  By the time the climbing starts, I find that it doesn't matter much what the air temperature is on the day, I warm right up.

2013-09-11 11:16 AM
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Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
Originally posted by klassman
You can bring a bucket to transition...the bikes are racked in a parking lot so you'll be on asphalt when you change shoes etc.  It is a short run up from the lake and up a few steps -- maybe 30-45 seconds -- to the bike racks but remember to pack a towel to clear the sand off your feet.  Also, you may want to opt to ride with shoe covers or socks.  The water is not ever too cold, but toes are an extremity and the first segment of the ride is a pretty long, shaded descent -- feet can get sore/cold.  By the time the climbing starts, I find that it doesn't matter much what the air temperature is on the day, I warm right up.




Inside information!! Nice...thanks, Kent.

I'm bringing shoe covers definitely. Still unsure about what additionally to wear on my top. LS bike jacket, sweat jacket (decision, decisions)
  • ..my toes/legs will be cold and I'm definitely wearing long socks too along with a second pair of shorts that are a bit longer.

  • Any thoughts about gloves? And how hard is it to dispense with the clothes at the top of the wall and will I lose my brick (if I make it) by stopping to shed clothes?

    I'm in the first wave and you are in the second, so you will pass me in the swim. Be kind and don't drown me as you pass.



    Edited by dtoce 2013-09-11 11:16 AM


    2013-09-11 3:45 PM
    in reply to: dtoce

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    Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread

    Originally posted by dtoce
    Originally posted by klassman You can bring a bucket to transition...the bikes are racked in a parking lot so you'll be on asphalt when you change shoes etc.  It is a short run up from the lake and up a few steps -- maybe 30-45 seconds -- to the bike racks but remember to pack a towel to clear the sand off your feet.  Also, you may want to opt to ride with shoe covers or socks.  The water is not ever too cold, but toes are an extremity and the first segment of the ride is a pretty long, shaded descent -- feet can get sore/cold.  By the time the climbing starts, I find that it doesn't matter much what the air temperature is on the day, I warm right up.
    Inside information!! Nice...thanks, Kent. I'm bringing shoe covers definitely. Still unsure about what additionally to wear on my top. LS bike jacket, sweat jacket (decision, decisions) ...my toes/legs will be cold and I'm definitely wearing long socks too along with a second pair of shorts that are a bit longer. Any thoughts about gloves? And how hard is it to dispense with the clothes at the top of the wall and will I lose my brick (if I make it) by stopping to shed clothes? I'm in the first wave and you are in the second, so you will pass me in the swim. Be kind and don't drown me as you pass.

    No doubt Kyle Yost will remind us all of the year that people had to scrape frost off their windshields before driving to the race start.  Note I didn't say it doesn't get cold...only, that the water temp should be fine.  I ride without gloves all the time and will probably put them on in T1.  I'd stick with something you can stash in your jersey if it gets super hot.  Regarding the clothes drop/pick up, my understanding is that this comes up every year and the answer is always that it is okay to stop at the race sanctioned clothing drop without fear of losing the brick status.  I've never used the clothing drop and instead have relied on stupidity and inner savagery to try to fend off any shivers so I cannot speak to how well organized it is.  However, since the overwhelming majority of folks at this event are not actually racing for a podium and no one is racing for a PR, even if it is a bit disorganized I wouldn't think that an extra :45 seconds would matter.  I just don't bother with it because it is one more thing to keep track of on the day.

    I plan to ride with a standard summer tri kit plus sleeves and fingerless gloves.  I'll ride sockless but probably either tape over the vents in my shoes or slip on some toe-cap style shoe covers.

    RE: Passing on the swim.  I don't think I've ever actually dunked anyone let alone drown them...not that I've not been tempted by breastrokers.

    2013-09-11 9:11 PM
    in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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    Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
    I'm up for dinner Friday - I flew out from Colorado on Monday for a week of work in DC, driving out the race Friday, probably swinging through Westernport for a test run. There is an UNOs in Deep Creek Lake, any time 6:30 or later would work for me, let me know.

    Matt Cox
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    2013-09-12 8:23 AM
    in reply to: coxma22

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    Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
    Originally posted by coxma22

    I'm up for dinner Friday - I flew out from Colorado on Monday for a week of work in DC, driving out the race Friday, probably swinging through Westernport for a test run. There is an UNOs in Deep Creek Lake, any time 6:30 or later would work for me, let me know.

    Matt Cox
    Parker, CO


    pm sent
    2013-09-13 11:55 AM
    in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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    Subject: RE: SavageMan Triathlon 70.0 : Official Thread
    Safe travels to all!
    I am getting close to finishing the business of the day and will get ready for the 10 hr drive-some tonight, some tomorrow...

    See you in transition. I'm #120

    If you see me, with a glazed look on my face, come over and say 'hi'....I'd love to meet any BT'ers.

    Dale
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