Olympic Nutrition (Page 4)

Originally posted by Chillin

Because I was curious? I asked a question because I was curious. No information is meaningless, it just depends what you do with that info.

Originally posted by rjrankin83



I bet the WR holder in the marathon couldn't break 2:05 in an OLY so comparing those two times is useless. Also how does comparing times between 3 races that 3 different people raced help you decide their intensity?

What is YOUR oly time vs marathon?

Originally posted by gsmacleod



Okay; so to satisfy your curiousity, here are some numbers:

Olympic Distance Triathlon - AvgHR 162 - 2:12
1500m swim - AvgHR - 153 (not 100% sure this is accurate but the athlete wore the strap throughout) - LTHR - 162 - 23 minutes
T1 - AvgHR - 164 - 1 minute
40km bike - AvgHR - 159 - LTHR - 164 - 1:07
T2 - AvgHR - 168 - 1 minute
10km run - AvgHR - 172 - LTHR 173 - 40 minutes

Marathon - AvgHR 159 - 3:08
First 10 miles - Avg HR 157 - 71 minutes
Second 10 miles - Avg HR 159 - 70 minutes
Final 10km - Avg HR 165 - 45 minutes

Shane

Originally posted by devilfan02

Originally posted by TriMyBest

I meant that you're missing the point about why a fueling strategy you utilized for a marathon without GI issues is not relevant to successful fueling strategies for an oly.  As Shane has tried to tell you several times, it's apples and oranges.  I was trying to "normalize" the factors you're looking at by saying that even eliminating the swim and bike from the equation and just looking at the intensity of the oly run vs the marathon (since they're at least the same discipline), the oly run was a higher intensity, making it less likely that someone could absorb fuel at the same rate.

 

Originally posted by gsmacleod



First, I have a question; why do athlete run slower for the marathon than they would for the half marathon? This may seem like a simple question but depending on whether or not your understanding of this is correct, it should make it easier to see the answer to your question.

Shane

Originally posted by gsmacleod



Okay; so to satisfy your curiousity, here are some numbers:

Olympic Distance Triathlon - AvgHR 162 - 2:12
1500m swim - AvgHR - 153 (not 100% sure this is accurate but the athlete wore the strap throughout) - LTHR - 162 - 23 minutes
T1 - AvgHR - 164 - 1 minute
40km bike - AvgHR - 159 - LTHR - 164 - 1:07
T2 - AvgHR - 168 - 1 minute
10km run - AvgHR - 172 - LTHR 173 - 40 minutes

Marathon - AvgHR 159 - 3:08
First 10 miles - Avg HR 157 - 71 minutes
Second 10 miles - Avg HR 159 - 70 minutes
Final 10km - Avg HR 165 - 45 minutes

Shane

Originally posted by Chillin

I'm sure you are looking for more than this but because we could not keep up the higher intensity for that long. If we tried to go faster we would end up taking longer not shorter.

Originally posted by rjrankin83

Thank you for that. I would have thought it would have been a bigger difference. I'd venture to guess 167 AvgHR over a half in about 1:24?

Originally posted by Chillin

Comparing times Helps determine approx intensity because that is the only easily available info and endurance events that are closer in total time could reasonably be assumed to be closer in intensity than those that are farther apart in total time.

Are comparisons between sports directly comparable? No, of course not, but comparisons will always be made.

For example see this article: http://gizmodo.com/5992583/how-far-do-you-run-in-different-sportsIs that relevant in any meaningful way? No. Is it interesting (to me)? Yes.

Anyways, the post you quoted was just me questioning gsmacleod because he said a half was closer in intensity than a full.

Here are my times:

Half 1:39:03 = 56% of my Oly
Full 3:40:42
Olympic Tri: 2:56:09 = 125% of my Oly

Compare that to the ratios in the records and you can see my ratios are pretty comparable (for what that's worth)
Half: 0:56 = 53% of Oly
Oly: 1:45
Full: 2:05 = 119% of Oly

Originally posted by gsmacleod



Buy why? If I can run at 4:00/km for 10km, why not a half marathon or a marathon?

Shane

Originally posted by gsmacleod



It holds up but only because your Oly PR is very soft compared to your half and full marathons. I haven't run a marathon but I have run a half and am quite confident that I have a good idea of a solid marathon based on my training and performance in other events.

Half - 1:31 - 70% of Oly
Full - 3:25 (pure guess but I'm confident with pure marathon training I could go under 3:10 so 3:25 would be a pretty comfortable guess) - 156%
Oly - 2:11

Shane

Originally posted by gsmacleod



It holds up but only because your Oly PR is very soft compared to your half and full marathons. I haven't run a marathon but I have run a half and am quite confident that I have a good idea of a solid marathon based on my training and performance in other events.

Half - 1:31 - 70% of Oly
Full - 3:25 (pure guess but I'm confident with pure marathon training I could go under 3:10 so 3:25 would be a pretty comfortable guess) - 156%
Oly - 2:11

Shane

Originally posted by Chillin

I don't know because your muscles get tired

lactic acid build up?

Originally posted by rjrankin83



My numbers in previous races are almost identical

Half-1:32
Full-3:26
Oly-2:12

That said I've dropped 12 lbs since my full and am hoping for huge gains before Nov at my IM and by Feb I hope to be a full 30 lbs lighter than last full mary. I'm done arguing with the talking wall but Congrats to you sir on your coaching in the Canada Games this year. Clearly you know what you're talking about

Originally posted by gsmacleod



So, assuming fatigue is the reason, do swimming and cycling fatigue your leg muscles in the same way running does?

Or, put another way, if you had to run a fast 10k the following day, which workout would be the worst to attempt:

1) 4000m all out swim
2) 40km all out ride
3) 15km all out run



There is no lactic acid accumulation in the body.

Shane

Originally posted by Chillin

3.

You are really making me work for this answer aren't you?

Originally posted by gsmacleod



But why would that be? All three are roughly one hour maximal efforts so why wouldn't all three impact in a similar manner?

Shane

Originally posted by Chillin

Because they use different muscles/muscle groups.

LOL are we almost to your answer as to why you stated an Oly is closer in intensity to a half marathon than to a marathon?

Originally posted by Chillin



Did I say something to upset you? I haven't disputed anything you or anyone else has said so why do you keep making negative comments towards me?

Good luck at IM in November!

Originally posted by rjrankin83



You've done nothing but attempt to dispute everything that's been said in this thread.

Originally posted by guitarfrk75

Not to to open a massive can of worms, but there was a study that showed putting salt in the mouth reduced cramps long before the salt could be metabolized - the taste triggered a reaction. I think I read it on here or ST.

Just to add fuel to the fire, here's my Oly fueling from a couple of weeks ago:

Overhydrate before the race so you have plenty of pee to warm your wetsuit up.
Re-Hydrate with plenty of lake water.
Put three gels in tri suit pockets during T1. Forget to eat all of them.
Flat with 100 yards of T2 and have a 15 minute rest while changing the tire.
Eat cliff blocks because you fancy something strawberry. Almost crash because you're going downhill and they're impossible to remove from the packet.
Decide your bike split is a wreck because you can't change a tire and cruise through, drinking two bottles of water and having no GI distress because you're not really doing any work.
Leave gels in pocket during T2. Forget to eat them on the run.
Take water from first aid station, turns out to be HEED. Nasty - accidently spit it on yourself.
Take water from second aid station and squash cup by accident, spilling all except a teaser-drop.
Avoid the rest of the aid stations because you're incompetent and don't want to hurt any volunteers.

Finish in almost the same time as last year, despite failing to fuel and spending 15 minutes changing a tire.

Originally posted by Chillin



No not at all. If you think that you clearly just don't understand what was being said.

I was not refuting anything. I was simply saying what I was going to do. I even said that what others said was the correct way to do it. I acknowledged that what I was doing was overfueling. I did not ever recommend what I was doing to anyone else (nor did I ever ask for anyone's advice). I agreed that I didn't need to consume that much. What else do I need to do?