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2013-08-11 7:36 PM

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Subject: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
I know that there have been a lot of discussions and comparisons between tribikes and roadies, but I would imagine that the gap is smaller with an AERO Roadie.

What do the big brains of BT think?


2013-08-11 7:41 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
TT bike is faster with the same rider and proper fit on both bikes.

if i were to own one though it would be the roadie due to versatility.
2013-08-11 8:13 PM
in reply to: Clempson

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
I own both right now.

Treks
Madone 5.2 and Speed Concept 7.2

I am thinking about selling both and getting one bad Di2 pimped out Aero Roadie.
2013-08-11 8:27 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
go for it. i would much rather have a very nice road bike than a mid grade TT and road bike.

i'd be a liar if i said i wasn't dreaming of the new scott addict with SRAM red.
2013-08-11 8:41 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Originally posted by pga_mike

I own both right now.

Treks
Madone 5.2 and Speed Concept 7.2

I am thinking about selling both and getting one bad Di2 pimped out Aero Roadie.


Confucius once say: "If getting your dream roadie motivates you to ride harder, longer, more often, and have more fun, then you've made the right decision."
2013-08-11 9:07 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

Originally posted by pga_mike I own both right now. Treks Madone 5.2 and Speed Concept 7.2 I am thinking about selling both and getting one bad Di2 pimped out Aero Roadie.

 

The benefits of a TT bike are really more about the aero position of the rider, than they are about the bike.  Sure, the bike is part of the equation - but it's the smaller part.  Getting your body out of the wind, and doing it in a way to keep your hip angle open so that you don't lose too much power is the trick of the TT bike.  Being in a roadie position on a really aero frame isn't nearly as good as being on a round tubed TT bike with a good body position.

I've got a decent carbon Orbea with full DuraAce.  I never ride it anymore since I got my Felt B10 with Di2.  Since with Di2 and dual position shifting, you can ride and shift on the hoods, or ride and shift on the aerobars.  So- your TT bike IS a road bike.

So- instead of getting one pimped out Aero Roadie, instead, get one pimped out Tri Bike.  !!!



2013-08-11 9:35 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Originally posted by morey000

Originally posted by pga_mike I own both right now. Treks Madone 5.2 and Speed Concept 7.2 I am thinking about selling both and getting one bad Di2 pimped out Aero Roadie.

 

The benefits of a TT bike are really more about the aero position of the rider, than they are about the bike.  Sure, the bike is part of the equation - but it's the smaller part.  Getting your body out of the wind, and doing it in a way to keep your hip angle open so that you don't lose too much power is the trick of the TT bike.  Being in a roadie position on a really aero frame isn't nearly as good as being on a round tubed TT bike with a good body position.

I've got a decent carbon Orbea with full DuraAce.  I never ride it anymore since I got my Felt B10 with Di2.  Since with Di2 and dual position shifting, you can ride and shift on the hoods, or ride and shift on the aerobars.  So- your TT bike IS a road bike.

So- instead of getting one pimped out Aero Roadie, instead, get one pimped out Tri Bike.  !!!

x2

An aero road bike is probably going to be 0-0.1 mph faster than a traditional road bike.  And if a properly fitted TT bike is usually about 1-1.5 mph faster than a traditional road bike...so, you can do the math for yourself.  The TT bike is all about the way it positions the rider.  It's why a properly fitted aluminum P2SL will still be faster in a TT than a S5 with normal road bars.  The difference in frame aerodynamics is very minimal, but it can make a difference.

Some of the top sprinters will use an aero road bike for stages they expect to be a bunch finish because those minor aero advantages will make a difference...especially at top end speed.  But it's not like teams who have access to aero road bikes like the S5 or the AR1 are dropping everyone else with traditional road bikes because they are so much faster.  Weight isn't even an issue for pro riders either since they generally all have their bikes weigh in at the UCI minimum.

If your goal is to consolidate to just one bike, and you don't want a tri bike anymore, then an aero road bike with Di2 is a pretty sweet option.  But if your goal is to go as fast as possible over various types of riding, including tris...then it's probably not a wise decision.

I understand that not everyone is out there for speed and we do this for enjoyment...so go with what makes you happy and want to ride.

2013-08-11 9:53 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Originally posted by pga_mike

I own both right now.

Treks
Madone 5.2 and Speed Concept 7.2

I am thinking about selling both and getting one bad Di2 pimped out Aero Roadie.


My guess is that you'll take a huge depreciation hit on reselling both bikes, and net net you might just be better off refitting DI2 to your Madone. And the best answer to "tri bike or road bike" is ALWAYS "both!!"
2013-08-12 9:58 AM
in reply to: pga_mike


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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
There was an article about this a while back. The results were somewhat surprising.

They tested wind tunnel and track (Nascar track I think).

They found that the difference between a road frame (round tube) and TT frame was the same as the difference between a road helmet and aero helmet. In other words the TT frame ridden with a road helmet was the same drag wise as a road frame with an aero helmet. Now....THE BIG KEY here is they achieved an IDENTICAL RIDER POSITION on each the TT and road frame. So rider position is key. It's not necessarily easy to get into an ideal TT position on a road frame.

So if you are going to buy a new aero road frame and get yourself into a good TT position you are in good shape. Ideal? Maybe not, but it will work and work well.
2013-08-12 11:27 AM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
wait... are we talking about having LESS bikes at the end of the day? I don't like this line of thinking...

Now if we're talking about adding another bike, I'm on board.

For a real answer... it depends a lot on you, how steep/lax you ride your Speed Concept, how aggressive you ride the madone, and what aero bike you are looking at.

If I was FORCED to have only 1 bike for road and tri duty... I'd probably take an S5 and get really good at swapping cockpits fast. Not the easiest to live with solution, but you'd be fast on the road and in a tt.

That said, if squeezing every second out of the ride isn't priority #1 (and for some unthinkable reason the n+1=n solution isn't working) then an aero roadie with some clips and a good fit is a good medium.

But really... you have a Madone and a Speed Concept...
2013-08-12 2:22 PM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

Originally posted by Leegoocrap ... But really... you have a Madone and a Speed Concept...

 

^^^  Chris makes a solid point here.

I'd go searching around the interwebs for a good deal on an ultegra Di2 setup and put in on whatever bike you ride more.  (then again, put it on whatever bike you want to ride more, as whatever has Di2 on it... you'll want to be on)



2013-08-13 3:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
So a twist on OP's question. As a preamble, I'm primarily a (recreational, occasionally competitive) roadie who dabbles in Tri. I have a crappy tri bike with a solid position (Motobecane Nemesis), and a pretty nice aero road bike with standard road geometry(Scott Foil). I've got an Oly in October that consists initially of fast rolling hills with a 9 mile/1300 foot climb at the end.

I feel like I can climb (particularly out of the saddle) far more efficiently on the Foil with a standard road fit, but if I were to try to hack a tri fit, I'd lose much of that efficiency due to the shorter reach, steeper effective SA, etc. (on a sliding scale, depending upon how aggressive I tried to go). Comparatively speaking, I'm not nearly as comfortable climbing on the tri bike - seated or standing - as I can't stretch out to the degree that I have become accustomed to.

So with the above in mind, and anticipating that I'd mount ITU style shorty aero bars on the Scott if I race it, would the aero gains of the tri bike over the rollers likely outweigh the lessened climbing efficiency (to say nothing of the 6ish pound weight difference) as compared to the road rig?

SYJ

Edited by syjenkins 2013-08-13 3:19 AM
2013-08-13 4:40 AM
in reply to: syjenkins

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
My first thought is that your position isn't so solid on the Nemesis. You can't stretch out as much as you do on a Foil?
2013-08-14 11:13 AM
in reply to: 0


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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/

I think that's the link you could be referring to. The OP would do well to read it.

Fit is key; at this point, getting a better tri or road bike isn't going to offset a variable like hydration or nutrition the day of the race. Or wind. Or tire pressure.

Or fatigue from training. Or temperature.

And for the real meat of the article;

Tarmac SL2 | road helmet | drop bars 0.310 40.10 306.6
Tarmac SL2 | road helmet | clip-on aero bars 0.267 40.27 268.6
Tarmac SL2 | TT2 helmet | clip-on aero bars 0.256 40.38 261.0
Transition | road helmet | aero bars 0.265 40.17 262.9
Transition | TT2 helmet | aero bars 0.230 40.05 229.0

1) Ave CdA
2) Speed (km/h)
3) Wattage

So from that study, MORE DRAG with a road bike, clip ons, and a TT helmet. Less by 1 gram than a TT bike with a regular road helmet.

Now you'd have to do research and calculate differences in drag from your TT bike and theirs, along with your and their helmet to see if that translates, but I would assume it should.

Also, frontal area of the rider; there are programs out there that'll do all this for you as soon as you feed it the numbers though.

Edited by FlacVest 2013-08-14 11:16 AM
2014-06-25 9:26 PM
in reply to: FlacVest

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Some beginner questions, figured id give it a shot in here instead of starting a new thread as this was what came up when searched.

#1- Many people have both road and tri bikes, my question.....why? I will be on the bike only for training and then doing the actual ride (IE no big long road races or anything like that). End of the day my budget is going to require me only picking one, but I am curious to why so many have multiple

#2- For me, I currently have a bottom of the barrel road bike (trek 1000) which is fine and getting the job done, but I would like to upgrade. So for what I do, train and then do the Tri, would I be better off looking for the next level road bike and put on aero bars or the tri bike

2014-06-25 9:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

Originally posted by ECS49#1- Many people have both road and tri bikes, my question.....why? I will be on the bike only for training and then doing the actual ride (IE no big long road races or anything like that). End of the day my budget is going to require me only picking one, but I am curious to why so many have multiple

I have a tri bike and two road bikes.  My tri bike only gets ridden once a week and for races.  My less nice road bike stays permanently on my trainer.  My nice new road bike gets used for hill riding and more fun riding.

A nice road bike just rides better than a tri bike.  Tri bikes aren't generally super comfortable to ride.

If you just plan on doing triathlons then get a tri bike.



Edited by GMAN 19030 2014-06-25 9:35 PM


2014-06-25 9:51 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by ECS49#1- Many people have both road and tri bikes, my question.....why? I will be on the bike only for training and then doing the actual ride (IE no big long road races or anything like that). End of the day my budget is going to require me only picking one, but I am curious to why so many have multiple

I have a tri bike and two road bikes.  My tri bike only gets ridden once a week and for races.  My less nice road bike stays permanently on my trainer.  My nice new road bike gets used for hill riding and more fun riding.

A nice road bike just rides better than a tri bike.  Tri bikes aren't generally super comfortable to ride.

If you just plan on doing triathlons then get a tri bike.




Lets put it like this, I ride the bike for training for triathlons, thats about it. I am doing about 75-100 miles per week in training. Hills are my weak spot, on flats or going downhill I actually ride plenty fast even on my old Trek.

Unless I was to keep my old trek once I upgrade, most likely I will only have one bike which will be used for this training and as of right now sprint and Olympic Tri's. The majority of my training is alone or with 1 other, although I do 1 group ride a week..
2014-06-26 9:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

Originally posted by ECS49 End of the day my budget is going to require me only picking one, but I am curious to why so many have multiple #2- For me, I currently have a bottom of the barrel road bike (trek 1000) which is fine and getting the job done, but I would like to upgrade. So for what I do, train and then do the Tri, would I be better off looking for the next level road bike and put on aero bars or the tri bike

For those of us without budget constraints then having both makes sense. Each type of bike is better at something, so you can use the right tool for the job.

If you can only get one bike, then unless you are purely triathlon focused then a good road bike with aerobars is a safe bet. Sure its a compromises but that's what your budget forces. You can always add  a tri bike later as budget allows, and then still keep the road bike. Buying road first, tri second is very common.

Btw I went from Trek 2000 to Trek 5200, did my first Ironman on the 5200, then added a Cervelo P3C. It wasn't budget constraints that forced the order, more a dire to avoid being a poseur - the slow middle age guy on a superbike I could afford but didn't earn. Note this was back in the day when a tri bike was step 27 of being a triathletes, not step 3.



Edited by brucemorgan 2014-06-26 9:36 AM
2014-06-26 10:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

I think the gap is nearly identical.

 

The overwhelming majority (like 90%+) of the aero gains from the TT bike are not from the sexy aero tubing, but from the lower position of the rider in the aero position. 

 

It's so overwhelming that for pure speed considerations, I would take a round-tubed TT bike over a aero-framed road bike any day. I'd even go with the round tubed TT bike compared to the aeroframed road bike with attached aerobars unless you change the fit on the roadie so that it's setup identically to a pure TT bike (which means it'll be suboptimally fit more might not fit at all if you take the aerobars off, in which case you might as well have just bought a TT bike.)

 

The aero framed tubing consistently ranks as near the bottom in terms of aerodynamic time savings, and pretty much the absolute worst in terms of dollar/aero bang for the buck in pretty much every test out there. 

 

(Admission: I ride a Cervelo TT aeroframed bike but still feel the aero tube benefits are hugely overstated. The COSMETIC effect is awesome though, and to me well worth the additional cost! )



Edited by yazmaster 2014-06-26 10:03 AM
2014-06-26 10:12 AM
in reply to: ECS49


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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

Originally posted by ECS49 Some beginner questions, figured id give it a shot in here instead of starting a new thread as this was what came up when searched. #1- Many people have both road and tri bikes, my question.....why? I will be on the bike only for training and then doing the actual ride (IE no big long road races or anything like that). End of the day my budget is going to require me only picking one, but I am curious to why so many have multiple #2- For me, I currently have a bottom of the barrel road bike (trek 1000) which is fine and getting the job done, but I would like to upgrade. So for what I do, train and then do the Tri, would I be better off looking for the next level road bike and put on aero bars or the tri bike

 

Again, it does depend on which you do more or value more. If you rarely race triathlons, but LOVE road cycling in all its forms, it wouldn't make as much sense if you had limited money for bike expenditures to spend it on a whole 2nd tribike that you might ride a few times a year. 

 

However, if you do expect to take triathlon at least semi seriously (you're not a one and doner, and hope to improve over time), the TT bike is the logical next purchase. You WILL use it and benefit from it if you keep at triathlon for more than a few months.

 

I do not think you should look at your trek 1000 as a limiter whatsoever. That bike, as well as the rest of the entry level bikes today, perform 98% as well in terms of speed as a $15k bike. You will NOT get significantly faster by just buying a new roadie, unfortuantely. (You wouldl if you were going from a mtn bike or non drop-bar bike to a road bike, but the Trek 1000 is already a drop-bar bike.)

2014-06-26 10:29 AM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

We currently own

Speed Concept 7.5 (ultegra)

Cervelo P-2 (ultegra)

Madone 5.2 (ultegra)

Madone 5.9 (aero road bike, Ultegra Di2)

Scattante Race (carbon frame, ultegra)

 

There is no way anyone rides faster on the Aero roadie than they do on the TT bikes (my son and I ride same bikes)......position won't allow it....ok, he can beat me on the roadie when I'm on a TT bike....but I digress.  Likewise, the aero roadie is faster than the Scattante in crit races and draft legal triathlon because Di2 is badarse and when alot of shifting is involved for quick jumps, lots of corners, etc.....it's easier to get through the gears.  Maybe that's not the case for VERY experienced riders, but for us the electronic shifting is da bomb.

A TT bike is still a TT bike and a road bike, aero or not, is still a road bike.  An aero road bike is not, and will never be, a TT bike.



2014-06-26 10:45 AM
in reply to: FlacVest

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Originally posted by FlacVest

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/

Tarmac SL2 | road helmet | drop bars 0.310 40.10 306.6
Tarmac SL2 | road helmet | clip-on aero bars 0.267 40.27 268.6
Tarmac SL2 | TT2 helmet | clip-on aero bars 0.256 40.38 261.0
Transition | road helmet | aero bars 0.265 40.17 262.9
Transition | TT2 helmet | aero bars 0.230 40.05 229.0


Very likely much more instructive to look at the wind tunnel numbers as there is much better control of variables in the wind tunnel:

Setup Wind Tunnel 0 CdA (m^2) Speed (km/h) at 278W Power req'd at 40km/h (W)*

Tarmac SL2 | road helmet | drop bars 0.3019 40.00 278.3
Tarmac SL2 | road helmet | clip-on aero bars 0.2662 41.65 248.9
Tarmac SL2 | TT2 helmet | clip-on aero bars 0.2547 42.25 239.5
Transition | road helmet | aero bars 0.2427 42.90 229.6
Transition | TT2 helmet | aero bars 0.2323 43.50 221.0

So road bike (aerobars) to tribike is worth about 20W whether with aerohelmet or regular helmet - so about 2s/km at race speeds.

Shane
2014-06-26 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

Originally posted by morey000

Originally posted by pga_mike I own both right now. Treks Madone 5.2 and Speed Concept 7.2 I am thinking about selling both and getting one bad Di2 pimped out Aero Roadie.

 

The benefits of a TT bike are really more about the aero position of the rider, than they are about the bike.  Sure, the bike is part of the equation - but it's the smaller part.  Getting your body out of the wind, and doing it in a way to keep your hip angle open so that you don't lose too much power is the trick of the TT bike.  Being in a roadie position on a really aero frame isn't nearly as good as being on a round tubed TT bike with a good body position.

I've got a decent carbon Orbea with full DuraAce.  I never ride it anymore since I got my Felt B10 with Di2.  Since with Di2 and dual position shifting, you can ride and shift on the hoods, or ride and shift on the aerobars.  So- your TT bike IS a road bike.

So- instead of getting one pimped out Aero Roadie, instead, get one pimped out Tri Bike.  !!!

Just a word of caution that even with electronic shifting, a TT bike is NOT a road bike when you're on the horns. 

 

http://blog.rappstar.com/2014/04/why-triathletes-need-road-bike.html

 

Here's my two cents, if you can only have one and you like to ride a bike for things other than racing (commuting, groups, etc) then go with the aero road bike. TT bikes absolutely suck for commuting and blow for group rides. Now if commuting is every once in a while and you train predominantly solo (or with one or two other peeps) then go TT all the way. 

I watched a guy take an OA win in a HIM this past weekend with a Bianchi with clip ons, FWIW



Edited by thebigb 2014-06-26 10:55 AM
2014-06-26 1:06 PM
in reply to: thebigb

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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!
Wow lots of good info, thanks guys and gals.

Here are some of my concerns:

A- I really dislike have to take my hands off the bar to shift

B- Hills are killers, which I assume is MOSTLY me, but having more than 12 gears might help, or possibly keeping my hands on as I drop gears or something for the love of god please be something!

C- The good news is on flat ground and/or downhills I am fine, sure I am not burning up the course at 25+ but fast enough I think all is good.


So, what I am looking for is a good CL bargin, obviously the bike has to fit which cuts down my chance's but im hoping to find someone that has been stuck with the bike for a month plus after posting and looking to get rid of it. I think I have one in mind, waiting on measurements for fit sake though.

But- its a Kuota Tri Bike, Cobb and Adamo saddles, ultegra parts, Cobra tri bars, vuelta wheels.....I think I can get it for $750-800.......good deal, great deal, ok deal, not so great?

Tried comparing them on ebay but its tough to find the whole set up.
2014-06-26 1:23 PM
in reply to: thebigb


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Subject: RE: Aero road bike vs Tri Bike, Need your WISDOM!

On similar lines, Chrissie Wellington dominated her early tris with clipons on a roadie as well.

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