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2013-08-14 10:43 AM
in reply to: rick4657

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Master
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Subject: RE: Garmin Vector

Originally posted by rick4657 Several years ago there was talk about the Vector being under $1000. At $1699 it is way out of my price range, if they drop the price to under $1000 I would look more seriously at buying it.

 

X2



2013-08-14 12:09 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Master
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Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
I don't get who are they trying to compete against? SRM? PT, Stages and Quarq all have them beat price wise. You can get a system + computer for well under the price of the Garmin. You can almost buy two of each (PT & Stages) for the price of the Vector. I just had a PT built into a race wheel for 50.00. I am just shaking my head.  Maybe the brim brothers system will help bring the price of the Vector down.
2013-08-14 12:44 PM
in reply to: jhouse4

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector

Originally posted by jhouse4 I don't get who are they trying to compete against? SRM? PT, Stages and Quarq all have them beat price wise. You can get a system + computer for well under the price of the Garmin. You can almost buy two of each (PT & Stages) for the price of the Vector. I just had a PT built into a race wheel for 50.00. I am just shaking my head.  Maybe the brim brothers system will help bring the price of the Vector down.

For someone with a lot of bikes and potentially different crank lengths or simply don't want to move them from bike to bike it could be appealing.  If I was able to ignore cost I'd go the Vector route in a heartbeat.  But yeah, that cost sure is hard to swallow. 

2013-08-14 1:22 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Elite
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Hattiesburg, Mississippi
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by velocomp

Originally posted by rick4657 Several years ago there was talk about the Vector being under $1000. At $1699 it is way out of my price range, if they drop the price to under $1000 I would look more seriously at buying it.

 

X2




I don't know if I every expected them to come in under $1000. And maybe if you take out the price of a cleat and pedal, the price isn't horrible. But would be nicer if it could just be installed in any pedal. If I was to purchase this I would have to purchase an additional pair of cleats because I have 2 pairs of cycling shoes. I wear one primarily, but if they get wet I will switch over.
2013-08-14 1:25 PM
in reply to: jlruhnke

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Elite
2993
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Hattiesburg, Mississippi
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by jlruhnke

Originally posted by parrj

Not sure if he updated his firmware. i did see that update come out last week. I'll have to ask him.

The DC Rainmaker review was great. But still not much out there on use with the 910xt. I've been waiting and waiting for the Vector, but the price is kind of high. I have found a place to get a 20% discount on the Vector. Just need to make sure they company honors the discount code on the Vector.


Most of those 20% discount codes have exemptions for Garmin products. At least they have had them when I tried at places like REI. Hopefully you have better luck.


Not holding my breath, but being a coach we get a 20% discount from Garmin. Contacted them and the Vector doesn't qualify. No surprise. But they do have the 810 and 510 on the qualifying list.

Have another discount code from an online retailer and it worked all the way to checkout, but wondering if I submitted, if it would correct afterwards. I need to contact the company directly before I'd consider pulling the trigger. Maybe I can negotiation with the local bike shop for a price match.
2013-08-14 3:26 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Garmin Vector

Originally posted by jhouse4 I don't get who are they trying to compete against? 

Power meters that are more expensive - SRM, Quarq Elsa, Look Power pedals
Power meters that can't measure L/R power
Power meters that are heavier - Vectors are basically the lightest
Power meters that can't be used on any bike including mountain, CX, cruiser, touring, etc
Power meters that can't be easily traveled with and used on a rental bike
Power meters that can't accomodate a riders preference for different crank arm lengths on different bikes - SRM, Quarq, P2M, Stages
Power meters that can't be used in conjunction with race wheels and training wheels - PT
Power meters that won't work with bikes that have different wheel sizes - PT
Power meters that only measure power from one leg - Stages

I'm sure there are a few other advantages that help them justify their price point.  Does that mean I will buy them...no.  I'm happy with my Quarq.  But there are some people where the above advantages mean more to them, and it will justify the price for them.



Edited by Jason N 2013-08-14 3:36 PM


2013-08-14 6:50 PM
in reply to: parrj

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Master
2406
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Bellevue, WA
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by parrj

Has anybody on BT actually bought these suckers yet? I can't believe there isn't one person who doesn't have them yet.


YES YES YES YES YES YES ME ME ME ME

Purchased Monday at an LBS in Seattle, installed Tuesday morning, ridden yesterday and today. Flawless. Everything they said the Vector would be 3.5 years ago, it is today, except affordable. You know the old adage about bike gear: light, strong, or affordable - pick any two. This is like that.

Installation was easy and took me about 15 minutes. I also bought an Edge 810 to go with it (in for $1700, in for $2200) and after updating the Edge to v2.70 of the software, they paired flawlessly. Calibration was trivial, exactly per the YouTube videos and DCRainMaker's site. The Edge 810 has up to 10 fields and 5 screens, so it's far more data than the 910.

I've previously owned a wired SRM power meter, and this is night and day easier.

As for 910XT compatibility, I'll let you know. I have some stuff to do tonight but soon I'll be updating the 910XT firmware, although I'm not sure if it's available yet though, DC said it was 2 weeks away.

2013-08-14 9:46 PM
in reply to: Jason N


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Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by jhouse4 I don't get who are they trying to compete against? 

Power meters that are more expensive - SRM, Quarq Elsa, Look Power pedals
Power meters that can't measure L/R power
Power meters that are heavier - Vectors are basically the lightest
Power meters that can't be used on any bike including mountain, CX, cruiser, touring, etc
Power meters that can't be easily traveled with and used on a rental bike
Power meters that can't accomodate a riders preference for different crank arm lengths on different bikes - SRM, Quarq, P2M, Stages
Power meters that can't be used in conjunction with race wheels and training wheels - PT
Power meters that won't work with bikes that have different wheel sizes - PT
Power meters that only measure power from one leg - Stages

I'm sure there are a few other advantages that help them justify their price point.  Does that mean I will buy them...no.  I'm happy with my Quarq.  But there are some people where the above advantages mean more to them, and it will justify the price for them.




Wait a minute, my quarq does provide left/right power data. At 80 grams it is lighter than and cheaper n the Vector.
2013-08-14 11:00 PM
in reply to: Billyk

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Regular
103
100
Alameda, CA
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
I don't own a PM and am a huge Garmin fan. But that price point seems crazy. I think next year I will probably get a PM but so far the stages seem to be the lead dog for me. Affordable, consistent, and accurate. Especially when compared to the other brands. It's really odd to me why people would spend $300-1200 more for another PM that gives you 2 more minor advantages.

But to each their own, whatever gets you out there to ride more.
2013-08-15 11:53 AM
in reply to: Billyk

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Master
2406
2000100100100100
Bellevue, WA
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by Billyk

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by jhouse4 I don't get who are they trying to compete against? 

Power meters that are more expensive - SRM, Quarq Elsa, Look Power pedals
Power meters that can't measure L/R power
Power meters that are heavier - Vectors are basically the lightest
Power meters that can't be used on any bike including mountain, CX, cruiser, touring, etc
Power meters that can't be easily traveled with and used on a rental bike
Power meters that can't accomodate a riders preference for different crank arm lengths on different bikes - SRM, Quarq, P2M, Stages
Power meters that can't be used in conjunction with race wheels and training wheels - PT
Power meters that won't work with bikes that have different wheel sizes - PT
Power meters that only measure power from one leg - Stages

I'm sure there are a few other advantages that help them justify their price point.  Does that mean I will buy them...no.  I'm happy with my Quarq.  But there are some people where the above advantages mean more to them, and it will justify the price for them.




Wait a minute, my quarq does provide left/right power data. At 80 grams it is lighter than and cheaper n the Vector.


A Quarg does provide left/right power, but not via individual measurement like the Vector. Instead, it's similar to a CompuTrainer in the Quarg "Uses crankset torque to display the ratio of power generated in the right drive stroke (first half) versus the left drive stroke (second half) for each crank revolution" (copied from http://www.quarq.com/sram-red-quarq-power-meter).

I am the guy Jason N is talking about in his post above. I bought a Vector because I want to be able to easily swap between all existing bikes as well as future-proof myself against compatibility problems with any bike I buy in the future. These pedals are guaranteed to fit on any road or tri bike I could ever buy now or in the future. I have different crank arm lengths between road and tri. I have race and training wheels for my tri bike. I can put them on my daughter's road bike and let her give it a go. And I have a well known power imbalance between my left and right legs (my left leg is stronger, and I'm working on it) so a left leg system doesn't meet my needs plus fails for me due to different crank arm length.

This is why I waited all this time for Vector. It meets all my needs.
2013-08-15 12:07 PM
in reply to: brucemorgan

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Veteran
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Vicksburg
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Is there an online "Dummies Guide to PMs"? I've read various articles, but I would like a summary that says "here's what you will want a PM to do, here are your options". Maybe that's asking for oversimplification.


2013-08-15 12:13 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by velocomp

Originally posted by rick4657 Several years ago there was talk about the Vector being under $1000. At $1699 it is way out of my price range, if they drop the price to under $1000 I would look more seriously at buying it.

 

X2




Agreed!!! I mean I have lived this long without using any form of power meters, so whats a few more years until the price is right...haha
2013-08-15 12:46 PM
in reply to: brucemorgan

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Master
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2000
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector

Funny thing is I can do the same thing with 2 powertaps. I can make them single speed 8/9/10/11 speed compatible. Switch Between Shimano/Sram or Campy all under 10 mins. I guess it is up to the person that is using it to decide which is the right for them.

But in response to Jason's statements

Power meters that are more expensive - SRM, Quarq Elsa, Look Power pedals. I disagree. This is dependent on how well you are "in" with your lbs. I have been given prices on the  both the Quarq and Look lower that are well below the  the price of the Vector. Also the Look system includes a head unit whereas the Vector does not. Unless you already have a Garmin then you are just playing with math at that point.


Power meters that can't measure L/R power - But who is to say that this is the best? You are also testing the power right off of the motor. Car companies do this all the time for marketing purposes with engines but in reality the H.P. of a car is a lot lower once you get all the additional moving pieces moving forward. 

Why cant you use it on a CX bike? I know a lot of people who run PT, SRM & Quarq on CX bikes. None that have used Stages though and I don't think I would ever put a power meter on a cruiser. If I am out cruising I am not training and there is no need for that data.


Power meters that are heavier - Vectors are basically the lightest. Different type of weight and you are actually expending more energy to rotate the additional weight than you would if it were more centrally located. i.e. the center of the crank. (I thought long and hard about bring this up because it is almost the splitting of hairs difference but there is a difference)

Power meters that can't be used in conjunction with race wheels and training wheels - I do own several PT's and an SRM so I have race wheels with PT and training wheels. I see your point although I would say its 6 in 1 and 1/2 dozen in the other. If people saw what a shops price for a PT is now. That would be without a doubt a game change.


Power meters that only measure power from one leg - I agree however my point is this, for the money according to Rainmakers blog, the stages and vector were almost identical wattage wise. Sure there are a million other factors at play but from the mile high view you are paying a thousand dollars more for both legs data when one leg gives you almost identical information.

2013-08-15 6:57 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by jhouse4

Funny thing is I can do the same thing with 2 powertaps. I can make them single speed 8/9/10/11 speed compatible. Switch Between Shimano/Sram or Campy all under 10 mins. I guess it is up to the person that is using it to decide which is the right for them.

But in response to Jason's statements

Power meters that are more expensive - SRM, Quarq Elsa, Look Power pedals. I disagree. This is dependent on how well you are "in" with your lbs. I have been given prices on the  both the Quarq and Look lower that are well below the  the price of the Vector. Also the Look system includes a head unit whereas the Vector does not. Unless you already have a Garmin then you are just playing with math at that point.


Power meters that can't measure L/R power - But who is to say that this is the best? You are also testing the power right off of the motor. Car companies do this all the time for marketing purposes with engines but in reality the H.P. of a car is a lot lower once you get all the additional moving pieces moving forward. 

Why cant you use it on a CX bike? I know a lot of people who run PT, SRM & Quarq on CX bikes. None that have used Stages though and I don't think I would ever put a power meter on a cruiser. If I am out cruising I am not training and there is no need for that data.


Power meters that are heavier - Vectors are basically the lightest. Different type of weight and you are actually expending more energy to rotate the additional weight than you would if it were more centrally located. i.e. the center of the crank. (I thought long and hard about bring this up because it is almost the splitting of hairs difference but there is a difference)

Power meters that can't be used in conjunction with race wheels and training wheels - I do own several PT's and an SRM so I have race wheels with PT and training wheels. I see your point although I would say its 6 in 1 and 1/2 dozen in the other. If people saw what a shops price for a PT is now. That would be without a doubt a game change.


Power meters that only measure power from one leg - I agree however my point is this, for the money according to Rainmakers blog, the stages and vector were almost identical wattage wise. Sure there are a million other factors at play but from the mile high view you are paying a thousand dollars more for both legs data when one leg gives you almost identical information.

So you would at least agree that at the current price point, the Vectors have a place in the market and can compete against other power meters?  That's the only point I was trying to make...not that I think the Vectors are superior overall.  They have strengths, and some weaknesses.  Price is high.  Durability may be an issue.

The vectors are NOT for me.  No different than a Garmin 810 is not for me.  Or a Cervelo P5 with Di2.  But just because I wouldn't buy it, or it doesn't fit my specific needs, it doesn't mean it's a silly product to purchase at the advertised price.

There are lots of power meters on the market now.  That's a great thing for consumers.  The best choice isn't going to be the same for everyone. 



Edited by Jason N 2013-08-15 7:00 PM
2013-08-15 7:20 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Master
2406
2000100100100100
Bellevue, WA
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by Jason N

So you would at least agree that at the current price point, the Vectors have a place in the market and can compete against other power meters?  That's the only point I was trying to make...not that I think the Vectors are superior overall.  They have strengths, and some weaknesses.  Price is high.  Durability may be an issue.

The vectors are NOT for me.  No different than a Garmin 810 is not for me.  Or a Cervelo P5 with Di2.  But just because I wouldn't buy it, or it doesn't fit my specific needs, it doesn't mean it's a silly product to purchase at the advertised price.

There are lots of power meters on the market now.  That's a great thing for consumers.  The best choice isn't going to be the same for everyone. 




Your comment isn't directed at me, but I for one agree with you. Each of the current solutions is valid for a certain set of customers, and there is no one best choice for everyone.

Also I think Garmin is going to drop the price as soon as they make some extra profit off people like me who are willing to pay the $1700 for the Vector. On the other hand, there are plenty of deep pocketed people willing to pay more for not necessarily the better solution (cue the Mac vs. PC argument here...) and so the price may not drop much at all. Markets that race to the bottom (PC market, again) often make little to no profit for anyone.

BTW, when Garmin announced the Vector back when I did sell my wired SRM and recouped $800, so for me the replacement power meter (the Vector) was really only $900 more than what I had at the time. Looking today on eBay I totally agree with an earlier poster - the bottom has completely fallen out of the wired power meter market. I'm glad I sold it when I did.
2013-08-15 8:32 PM
in reply to: DanielG

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Master
2372
20001001001002525
Subject: RE: Garmin Vector
Originally posted by DanielG

Originally posted by Left Brain

Look dammit....somebody start buying them up and giving them rave reviews.....I need the bottom to fall out of the PT so I can buy 3. Laughing



http://www.power2max.ca/

Especially if you already have a crank that it works with.




Love mine. Really custom made, it seems, if you buy a Cervelo these days.


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