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2013-08-16 12:06 PM

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Oakville
Subject: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Is there a rule against passing a cyclist who is in the middle of a pass themselves?

This happened during a recent Sprint race where another cyclist was trying to make a pass but was not making any forward progress. I wouldn't say they were "blocking", but it was close as they were riding side by side for well over 15 seconds.

I felt that there was enough room for me to pass and so I called out "on your left" and made my pass - and so at one point in time there would have been 3 cyclists abroad in one lane of the road.

I can't recall how close they were to the cyclist on the far right, but there was at least 3 feet between myself and the middle cyclist.

Anyway, the middle cyclist was pissed off and made a comment that I should have waited.

The USAT rule is vague and states that you must not attempt to pass another cyclist unless adequate space is available and you are confident of your ability to pass the other cyclist.

In my view, there was plenty of room and I completed the pass in well under 10 seconds, probably closer to 5 seconds.

I don't consider myself to be a reckless cyclist, but was I in the wrong here?


2013-08-16 12:09 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
I don't think you were in the wrong... Some races get backed up and if you are faster, you have to pass or you draft (which you don't want to do). I've done it too so if you're in the wrong, so am I.
2013-08-16 12:14 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
I am curious what the more experienced people have to say. To me, it seems that as long as you aren't crossing the center line, you should be fine. If someone tries to pass but doesn't have the legs, that is on them. Just call out your presence so they don't swerve in front of you.

On a related question, what do you do if people are riding three abreast and won't let you pass? This came up during my last race, and the solution might not have been the most civilized. There were three people on mountain bikes (I am a slow swimmer) taking the entire lane on an out and back course. To cross the line would have moved me into oncoming bikes. Twice, I called out in my loudest voice "on your left". Then I yelled "please move over!". Then I resorted to "get the expletive out of the way!" That worked. With no marshall around to tell people like that not to block the lane, what is the best course of action?

Edited by happyscientist 2013-08-16 12:14 PM
2013-08-16 12:18 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
the middle cyclist was an idiot, and would have been penalized for blocking if he was caught. i woulda yelled at him to stop blocking and finish the pass, and certainly woulda went by with a loud on your left and let him know he was blocking. It's a race, not a coffee ride.

if he had an issue with that, i woulda told him to go ask a referee walking around transition if he had a problem with it. where he woulda been told he shoulda got a penalty and would have promptly been shut up.

You were 100% in the right as long as you did not cross the yellow.

2013-08-16 12:21 PM
in reply to: happyscientist

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Originally posted by happyscientist

I am curious what the more experienced people have to say. To me, it seems that as long as you aren't crossing the center line, you should be fine. If someone tries to pass but doesn't have the legs, that is on them. Just call out your presence so they don't swerve in front of you.

On a related question, what do you do if people are riding three abreast and won't let you pass? This came up during my last race, and the solution might not have been the most civilized. There were three people on mountain bikes (I am a slow swimmer) taking the entire lane on an out and back course. To cross the line would have moved me into oncoming bikes. Twice, I called out in my loudest voice "on your left". Then I yelled "please move over!". Then I resorted to "get the expletive out of the way!" That worked. With no marshall around to tell people like that not to block the lane, what is the best course of action?


i woulda yelled on your left twice, then "stop blocking and move over or finish your pass", i would not have been nice about it, as what they are doing is illegal and dangerous to other riders.
2013-08-16 12:45 PM
in reply to: Rudedog55

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Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
You definitely weren't in the wrong, in my opinion.

The middle cyclist has 20 seconds to complete his pass, so depending on how long he had been executing his pass (you mentioned they'd been side-by-side for 15 seconds), he could potentially have been within his right to be where he was. If the inside cyclist was adjusting his speed to prevent the pass...well, that's just a dick move.

Either way, his verbal opposition to your maneuver seems inappropriate.


2013-08-16 12:54 PM
in reply to: pmtaylor621

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg

I was passed by a pro while passing someone else so I imagine it is not against the rules.

If you had crossed the yellow lines or something then you would have broken the rules.

2013-08-16 1:11 PM
in reply to: Scott71


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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
I consider it fair game to pass multiple passers-in-progress. I'm a much stronger cyclist than swimmer, so this happens to me a lot in wave-start races, where I'm stuck passing hordes of people of all speeds for nearly the entire race. Just make the pass as fast as possible, and be careful if there are 3 (or 4) abreast that you're not crossing the yellow line.

And definitely be ready for evasive maneuvers since you will be the unexpected passer, especially on hills where people are struggling and often all over the road.
2013-08-16 1:12 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
i pass whenever i can. i've passed in situations like you had, in situations where there is a draft pack, others where there is a cluster of 20 people riding 5 or 6 wide all huddled together for some reason, and i've even passed cars sitting driving behind people moving slower up ahead.

you should have retorted that he should be riding faster. its a race, as long as you don't endanger anyone but yourself between points A and B and ride within the position rules on the road its all fair game.
2013-08-16 1:28 PM
in reply to: Clempson

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg

Originally posted by Clempson i pass whenever i can. i've passed in situations like you had, in situations where there is a draft pack, others where there is a cluster of 20 people riding 5 or 6 wide all huddled together for some reason, and i've even passed cars sitting driving behind people moving slower up ahead. you should have retorted that he should be riding faster. its a race, as long as you don't endanger anyone but yourself between points A and B and ride within the position rules on the road its all fair game.

Same here, I have been the one doing the passing and have also been the one who has been passed...either way there is nothing wrong with it at all as long as there was adequate room for all riders...I hate seeing packs of people riding together in a race like that...

2013-08-16 1:28 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Originally posted by Scott71

I can't recall how close they were to the cyclist on the far right, but there was at least 3 feet between myself and the middle cyclist.

Anyway, the middle cyclist was pissed off and made a comment that I should have waited.

The USAT rule is vague and states that you must not attempt to pass another cyclist unless adequate space is available and you are confident of your ability to pass the other cyclist.

In my view, there was plenty of room and I completed the pass in well under 10 seconds, probably closer to 5 seconds.

I don't consider myself to be a reckless cyclist, but was I in the wrong here?



IIRC, at the rules briefing last weekend in Milwaukee there was a mention of basically this exact situation. I think it was in the context of why it's so important to stay to the right, so that if rider B is passing rider A, and rider C comes along they would have enough room to pass B without leaving the lane. The exact situation happened to me during the race (I was rider A, of course!). I think it's perfectly legal, you were totally in the right, and if there were a rules official there the middle rider would have received a penalty.


2013-08-16 1:41 PM
in reply to: paxsarah

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
It's a friggin' race so if it's a SAFE place to pass where you're not interfering with any traffic in the opposite direction (runners or cyclists), then just do it. I do it all the time. When I'm coming up behind them I speak loudly with a "on your left" with enough advance to give them time to react accordingly. This is one of those moments of common courtesy, communication and common sense. If it's a safe manuever and the middle cyclist is pissed, that's just a matter of them being upset they got passed. Either that or they're one of those follow procedure to the book types. because they have a hard time deploying common sense. And of course, their version of "the book" is often misinterpreted.

Now if there's a rule somewhere that says you have to wait and can only go two wide, that's another story. A local race can have their own set of rules that go beyond USAT etc.
2013-08-16 2:03 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Take the USAT rule for what it says. If the RD wants to prohibit you from passing 3-wide, he/she has the authority to do so by amending the rules for his/her race *before* the race and making sure all know about it. But there is nothing preventing you from this normally.

2013-08-16 2:28 PM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Originally posted by reecealan

It's a friggin' race so if it's a SAFE place to pass where you're not interfering with any traffic in the opposite direction (runners or cyclists), then just do it. I do it all the time. When I'm coming up behind them I speak loudly with a "on your left" with enough advance to give them time to react accordingly. This is one of those moments of common courtesy, communication and common sense. If it's a safe manuever and the middle cyclist is pissed, that's just a matter of them being upset they got passed. Either that or they're one of those follow procedure to the book types. because they have a hard time deploying common sense. And of course, their version of "the book" is often misinterpreted.

Now if there's a rule somewhere that says you have to wait and can only go two wide, that's another story. A local race can have their own set of rules that go beyond USAT etc.


Yeah I haven't seen a rule to this at all. Just be sure when you're going three wide you aren't leaving the lane otherwise you'll get DQ'd. Unfortunately it seems a lot of times I have needed to go three wide it's with people that are so far over to the left to begin with it simply isn't possible without crossing the center line. So you're left to wait in line and try and make your presence known.
2013-08-16 3:31 PM
in reply to: thebigb

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Last race witnessed this, the left rider had plenty of room to pass but the center cyclist swerved left just as the left cyclist was even with his rear wheel, forcing him to cross the center line slightly to keep from colliding. There was no race official to see this so no penalties were incurred. If there had been, what penalties would likely have been imposed?
2013-08-16 4:24 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
At the StL 5150 i was coming up on 3 people riding abreast, not even attempting to pass. Right as I pulled within passing distance. The MC with the USAT Ref pulled up. I passed the 3 of them as he was pulling out his note pad.

Checking the results that night. 3 people had 2 min penalties. I was not among them.

I would say it is okay to pass more than one as once. As long as you can do it in the prescribed amount of time.


2013-08-16 5:55 PM
in reply to: halfmarathondon

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
At IMCDA this year going south down off of Mica there were 3 wide and they were going like that for well over a couple hundred yards. I kept yelling on your left. Actually sat up out of aero to hit the brakes. I finally said screw it and went into the other lane and passed them. No race official anywhere either but they were definately not making any attempt to pass as they should have.

Not sure on the specific rules for this either myself.

Although going uphill on Mica grade there were at times 2-3 wide passing but everyone was going so slow that you didn't really need to cross the "line" separating the lane of travel. I know race officials passed people at that point and didn't see anything being written down there.

But I do try to let people know I'm passing to avoid scaring them and causing them to swerve or something
2013-08-16 7:40 PM
in reply to: spie34

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
It's a race not a politeness contest. I'll pass as many people as I need to as long as I don't cross the mid line
2013-08-16 8:18 PM
in reply to: JZig


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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
I would have done the same but I thought it was determined that there is no etiquette among racing. Probably should have rode over them
2013-08-16 11:07 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
pass when you can.... pass when it is safe... pass often.. pass fast...
2013-08-17 10:18 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
The rules are perfectly clear on this point. They do not mention passing a rider who is passing because it is not against the rules. If you are passing legally (passing on the left, not drafting, not blocking, not leaving the boundaries of the course, whatever they may be, etc.) then all is good.

Don't yell at the idiots who complain at you for stupid reasons (not saying you did). Waste of energy. Just make the pass and get on with it.

My only caveat is that sometimes (this is especially noticeable to me in multi-loop courses) you'll come across a cyclist who is doing what you described and also not 100% in control of the bike. If a cyclist looks sketchy, just be careful and wary. Sometimes people swerve for the silliest reasons (or no reason).


2013-08-18 12:10 AM
in reply to: Clempson

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Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
Originally posted by Clempson

  • .. i've even passed cars sitting driving behind people moving slower up ahead...



  • I think this part will result in penalty.
    2013-08-18 6:33 AM
    in reply to: pmtaylor621

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    Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
    Originally posted by pmtaylor621You definitely weren't in the wrong, in my opinion.The middle cyclist has 20 seconds to complete his pass, so depending on how long he had been executing his pass (you mentioned they'd been side-by-side for 15 seconds), he could potentially have been within his right to be where he was. If the inside cyclist was adjusting his speed to prevent the pass...well, that's just a dick move.Either way, his verbal opposition to your maneuver seems inappropriate.
    USAT rules allow 15 seconds to complete a pass once you've entered the rear of draft zone of another rider, not 20 seconds. Once you enter another rider's zone, you must exit the front of their zone (get your front wheel ahead of their front wheel) in that 15 seconds. Anything else earns you a penalty. It doesn't matter if the person being passed accelerates. The rules state that once the passing rider completes the pass, the rider who they passed must immediately drop back out of the passing rider's draft zone. "Immediately" is normally interpreted by officials to allow 15 seconds for this to occur. This means that from the time one rider begins a pass by entering the draft zone of another rider to the time the rider who was passed exits the draft zone of the rider who passed them, it could be as long as 30 seconds and they're both legal. Also, as long as the course is wide enough, passing can be occurring multiple riders wide at the same time.
    2013-08-18 6:48 AM
    in reply to: wbattaile

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    Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg

    Originally posted by wbattaile
    Originally posted by Clempson ... i've even passed cars sitting driving behind people moving slower up ahead...
    I think this part will result in penalty.

    Based on what rule?

    2013-08-18 8:18 AM
    in reply to: 0

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    Subject: RE: Passing Etiquette in Bike Leg
    Originally posted by the bear

    Originally posted by wbattaile
    Originally posted by Clempson ... i've even passed cars sitting driving behind people moving slower up ahead...
    I think this part will result in penalty.

    Based on what rule?




    bear, what's your take on this? I've experienced this once or twice and slowed and did not pass the cars. Not really based on any known triathlon rule, but more that it felt unsafe. You never know when a car is going to turn in either direction, or swerve unpredictably.

    Outside of a race, couldn't a cyclist be ticketed for passing a moving car in the same lane - unsafe conditions or such? Assuming it could violate a traffic law, could an official issue a penalty for failing to follow the rules of the road? Thanks.




    Edited by Goosedog 2013-08-18 8:19 AM
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