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2013-08-19 8:45 AM

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Subject: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
I know this is a VERY vague question but I only ask because I just completed my 2nd tri ever and it was also my second sprint tri. During my first race I passed 1 person on the run. There were only 400 people in that race, so it was a smaller race and since I had not been training long I avg'd 9:15 per mile and everybody seemed to pass me that I had passed on the bike course. No big deal, it was my first tri and I was happy with my performance. Fast forward to last weekend and I did another local tri. This one was much bigger with 1,000 athletes. It had combined sprint and olympic people in it with staggered start times. I did great on the swim and bike and get to the run and I even ran faster this time avg'ing 9:00 per mile and still only passed ONE person. Am I really that slow of a runner or is everybody else that fast? If I had to guess, I would say that no less than 60-70 people passed me on the run last week. It was very tough mentally on me. Everybody from kids to adults, men and women passed me. I know every race differs but as a person in the Male 40-44 age group, am I really a back of the pack runner when I am averaging 9:00 per mile? I was 23 out of 28 people in my age group. I am just curious about peoples thoughts.


2013-08-19 8:52 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile

you would have blown past me.

in all seriousness - winners at sprint/oly level in my area are putting down sub-7 minute miles. 

2013-08-19 8:52 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Whatever your pace is, that's perfect!

Maybe you passed 28 people in the swim and passed 28 more on the bike.

Don't forget it's a pacing thing for the ENTIRE race, not just the run. I wouldn't get hung up on pace for only the run. I think you did a great job lowering your pace in your race versus your training.
2013-08-19 8:55 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile

It really is too vague to answer.

Average pace for what? Run leg of a sprint tri? Marathon? Marathon during an IM?
Average pace for whom? High school runner? AG podium athlete? 40 yo getting off the couch for the first time? 70 yo woman?

 

Male 40-44 is a pretty competitive AG. I don't compete it in so I have no idea what an "average" pace is. Look at the results and see what everyone did on the run leg. Also remember that for tris, people start at different times so it's hard to know "where" everyone is during the race.

Also realize taht you said "everyone I passed on the bike" ---- I'm an okay swimmer, slow cyclist, and decent runner, so I get passed A LOT on the bike and then catch up to those people on the run.

2013-08-19 8:59 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
guys that win in my local sprints usually put down low 6min/mi to high 5's (yes, for real)
I consider myself avg. / competitive usually run high 6's depending on how much I blew up the bike...

In your AG 8min/mi's in a sprint is probably close to average... there are some really fast dudes in M40-44.

It's tough to say what's avg. from race to race and area to area though.
Keep up the run training and you'll be smoking the lot of them.
2013-08-19 9:17 AM
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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Thanks for all the replies. I realized it was a very vague question but I think I got what I was looking for. Also, I am very happy with how my run has progressed in training so far. I have to keep telling myself that I have really only been training for for tri's for about 6 months now. Heck, I didn't even know how to swim until January of this year and in my first OWS race this past weekend I think my swim finish was in the 170's out of 500+ people. There are always bright spots to look back on for my race. It was just a bit frustrating to be passed by so many people on the run. I feed off the adrenaline of passing others. When I swim and bike I do a pretty good job and seem to consistently pass people and that fuels me, but its hard to get pumped up on the run when you pass just one person. O well, I was still happy with my results and I realize the 40-44 age group is very competitive. I think I'll have to really work on the swim and bike, because i just don't see any way that I can ever get down into the 6's per mile running. Even during my self lactate test run that I did I only averaged low 8's and that was balls to the wall feeling near death pace with no swim or bike prior. Its nice for something like this to light a fire under my butt though. Going to go train even harder now

Edited by spiderjunior 2013-08-19 9:17 AM


2013-08-19 9:19 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Don't let it get to you too much, man. Unfortunately, a lot of triathletes come from a running background. They tend to do okay on the bike, and a lot are fairly weak in the swim (maybe I'm generalizing a little too much here). I was an average high school swimmer, and 20 years later that still gives me an advantage on most of the swim pack. I'm a decent biker, but not great. I end up having the same situation as you do, but I usually don't pass ANYONE in the run, *unless* I am catching up to someone in a wave that started ahead of me.

For instance, this weekend in a small triathlon, I won my AG in the swim and in the bike, but I was 11th out of 19 in the run. The waves were broken down such that they started F35+, F34-under, and M40+, and then M39-under with 5 minute gaps in between. I was in the M40+ wave. I passed *maybe* 3 or 4 females on the run, and actually had a couple females pass me that I must've passed on the swim or bike. My run time was 25:11, which is about an 8:07/mile. I ended up 2nd in my AG, about 2 minutes behind the winner. He actually ran a 19 minute 5K! He beat me by 6 minutes in the 5K.

Then I scanned the results. I finished 22nd overall out of 133, and if you look at the run times, I was the only person in the top 35 to be even over a 24:00 5K. Looking at the top 50 finishers, I only beat 2 people in the run. I ended up being 81 out of 133 on the run.

The point of this is that you can't feel too bad about your running times. I started out a little slower than where you are with the run, and I was gaining speed until I got injured early this summer. I'm now picking back up at it, but I'm not where I should be yet. I've improved significantly over time, and I'm *still* in the lower half of the running group, but if you think about it, I did pretty well yesterday! Fortunately for you and me, there are 3 disciplines (4 if you want to count the transitions) in the race, and it isn't *ALL* about being a good runner.

Note: not trying for any backwards brags there, no matter who calls me out on it. Just pointing out that you're not alone in this. I know I'm going to have to drop well in to the 23:XX range to be competitive. It's something to work on in the offseason!
2013-08-19 9:23 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile

Originally posted by Leegoocrap guys that win in my local sprints usually put down low 6min/mi to high 5's (yes, for real) I consider myself avg. / competitive usually run high 6's depending on how much I blew up the bike... In your AG 8min/mi's in a sprint is probably close to average... there are some really fast dudes in M40-44. It's tough to say what's avg. from race to race and area to area though. Keep up the run training and you'll be smoking the lot of them.

Yep, and at the regional level it's 5:15 -5:30.....at the national level it can easily be sub 5 depending on the course.

2013-08-19 9:26 AM
in reply to: MSU_Brad

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Originally posted by MSU_Brad

Don't let it get to you too much, man. Unfortunately, a lot of triathletes come from a running background. They tend to do okay on the bike, and a lot are fairly weak in the swim (maybe I'm generalizing a little too much here). I was an average high school swimmer, and 20 years later that still gives me an advantage on most of the swim pack. I'm a decent biker, but not great. I end up having the same situation as you do, but I usually don't pass ANYONE in the run, *unless* I am catching up to someone in a wave that started ahead of me.

For instance, this weekend in a small triathlon, I won my AG in the swim and in the bike, but I was 11th out of 19 in the run. The waves were broken down such that they started F35+, F34-under, and M40+, and then M39-under with 5 minute gaps in between. I was in the M40+ wave. I passed *maybe* 3 or 4 females on the run, and actually had a couple females pass me that I must've passed on the swim or bike. My run time was 25:11, which is about an 8:07/mile. I ended up 2nd in my AG, about 2 minutes behind the winner. He actually ran a 19 minute 5K! He beat me by 6 minutes in the 5K.

Then I scanned the results. I finished 22nd overall out of 133, and if you look at the run times, I was the only person in the top 35 to be even over a 24:00 5K. Looking at the top 50 finishers, I only beat 2 people in the run. I ended up being 81 out of 133 on the run.

The point of this is that you can't feel too bad about your running times. I started out a little slower than where you are with the run, and I was gaining speed until I got injured early this summer. I'm now picking back up at it, but I'm not where I should be yet. I've improved significantly over time, and I'm *still* in the lower half of the running group, but if you think about it, I did pretty well yesterday! Fortunately for you and me, there are 3 disciplines (4 if you want to count the transitions) in the race, and it isn't *ALL* about being a good runner.

Note: not trying for any backwards brags there, no matter who calls me out on it. Just pointing out that you're not alone in this. I know I'm going to have to drop well in to the 23:XX range to be competitive. It's something to work on in the offseason!


Awesome post. Thanks. This really hit home. appreciate you taking the time to write all that stuff out in detail.
2013-08-19 9:26 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
I'll be in the 40-45 AG next year (35-45 are some of the fastest guys), but I consider my run slower than average at 8:30 min/mi. To be semi-competitive I need to get down to around 7 min/mi.

Since I compete in duathlons I really need to work on my running, and that is what I will focus on this winter. I realize I don't run nearly enough and haven't attempted any speed work yet. Everyone has issues to work on and weak areas, that's what training is all about.
2013-08-19 9:59 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile

I completely get where you're coming from.  I did my first tri in July (sprint).  I did fairly well in both the swim and the run but finished 44/62 in the bike.  After that, I added another day of bike training and worked harder (and bought a new bike Laughing ).  I have upped my avg speed by about 2-2.5mph.  Keep at it.  You'll improve.  I think it's great you dropped your pace by 15sec/mile.  That shows that what you are doing is working.  Keep it up and good luck!



2013-08-19 10:20 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile

Originally posted by spiderjunior I know this is a VERY vague question but I only ask because I just completed my 2nd tri ever and it was also my second sprint tri. During my first race I passed 1 person on the run. There were only 400 people in that race, so it was a smaller race and since I had not been training long I avg'd 9:15 per mile and everybody seemed to pass me that I had passed on the bike course. No big deal, it was my first tri and I was happy with my performance. Fast forward to last weekend and I did another local tri. This one was much bigger with 1,000 athletes. It had combined sprint and olympic people in it with staggered start times. I did great on the swim and bike and get to the run and I even ran faster this time avg'ing 9:00 per mile and still only passed ONE person. Am I really that slow of a runner or is everybody else that fast? If I had to guess, I would say that no less than 60-70 people passed me on the run last week. It was very tough mentally on me. Everybody from kids to adults, men and women passed me. I know every race differs but as a person in the Male 40-44 age group, am I really a back of the pack runner when I am averaging 9:00 per mile? I was 23 out of 28 people in my age group. I am just curious about peoples thoughts.
AG wise afraid so.  Overall race wise maybe not. 

We have a local race with about 600 participants that that brings in some of the best racers in Central FL to a lot of first timers.  For Male 40-45 AG with 48 racers 9:15 would have been 33rd, 50% was 8:15, top 25% was 7:27 (winner was 6:25).

Overall for the race out of 590 finishers 9:15 would have been just inside the top 50% at 280th (295th was 9:25), 8:15 was top 25%.

The good news is you can increase your running speed over the winter with some focused run training (e.g. 6x per week [BarryP plan]). Perhaps find a Spring 10k to HM run race to train for to give you focus.

2013-08-19 10:21 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Being uneven in the 3 sports is pretty normal, so don't sweat it, just enjoy the journey of getting better or getting to where you want to be. Some people start with their strongest event, and then get chased down, some are the other way around. If you're better in the swim and/or bike, then you'll be starting the run with some of the stronger competitors, so that will amplify the feeling of being chased down on the run. I'm the opposite of you: I'm a horrible swimmer and middling biker, but run fairly well for a triathlete, so I pass hordes of people on the run, because other runners with similar speeds started long before me.

If you're finding that you're struggling on the run compared to the swim and bike, there are a couple of main reasons why you might be doing worse. If you're competitive on flatter bike sections, but get passed on the uphills, then you don't have a run-specific limiter, rather it's your weight that is holding you back. Running and uphill biking both depend on being light more than do swimming or biking on flats. If you're competitive when climbing on the bike, then your limiter is run-specific. There's no magic pill for getting fast at running. But the good news is that consistent, frequent, steady running will pay huge dividends over time. As you get more miles in your legs, paces that used to feel really fast will start to feel easy. Just be patient, especially as you're no spring chicken.
2013-08-19 10:32 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
I'm about where you are based on my race results in the run, but still in smaller, local races I can still win or place in my AG (F45-49) once in a while.

That's what I love about triathlon, it's not just a running race where I know I have NO shot EVER at a medal! That said, right now I am running the fastest I have ever run in my life, and this is only my 2nd summer of triathlon racing and I missed a pretty good chunk of training Feb-May with cancer surgeries/treatments.

Keep the faith, you will get better and better. I also now have the hint of muscles in my arms and quads from training for triathlons that I never had from just running and so I am a better all around athlete and you are too.

The speed will come to you and always take advantage of where you can excel, regardless of what discipline that is - I have won my AG by having killer transitions when I only rode in running shoes (and which I am strongly considering going back to some days! LOL!!!!)

Patti
2013-08-19 10:40 AM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Take a few local races in your area, export the race results to a spreadsheet file, then average the times.
2013-08-19 11:11 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile

The faster you swim and bike, the harder it is to pass anyone on the run. 

Ask Chris Lieto how many people he's passed on the run in his entire career.  Wouldn't be surprised if he could count them on one hand.



2013-08-19 11:19 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Yes 9 min miles in our age group (40-44) is slow.

The 40-44 age group is one of the most competitive in most events. If you want to be a MOP runner in that age group you need to run 7:00 min miles in a sprint.

Similar to you I swim well, bike well, but my run is not so good. I am in the top 5% for swimming, top 15% on the bike and running at 8:30 min/miles in a sprint I do not get on the podium.

Learn to run fast, or except the fact you will not place.
2013-08-19 11:44 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Originally posted by Jason N

The faster you swim and bike, the harder it is to pass anyone on the run. 

Ask Chris Lieto how many people he's passed on the run in his entire career.  Wouldn't be surprised if he could count them on one hand.




This.

I'm a lousy runner, but I'm an average swimmer and a good cyclist (by tri standards). I never pass anyone on the run unless they are injured or walking for some other reason. As the hoards are running past me, I laugh inwardly that clearly I'm a better swimmer and cyclist than all of them.
2013-08-19 12:11 PM
in reply to: spiderjunior


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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Avg is for an Oly is about 9min/mile for 50% of the field.

Your ability to pass depends much more on how good (or bad) you are at biking/swimming than your actual run ability.

When I started tris, I was a pure runner, but I didn't even need to run faster than 8min/mile to pass hordes - because I was so slow on the swim and not great on the bike.
2013-08-19 12:41 PM
in reply to: GLC1968

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Fortunately as others have pointed out, it's not about how fast you run, it's about how fast you swim bike and run.
You're in a very tough age group. A lot of people your age have kids that are old enough to be left alone while Dad or Mom goes out to train, and a lot of long dormant high school\collegiate athletes come out to wreak havoc again. If you're out there to win, that makes it hard. If you're out there for your own reasons, then none of those dudes should matter, other than to keep that fire lit under your butt that keeps you training harder!
2013-08-19 1:03 PM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Originally posted by spiderjunior

I know this is a VERY vague question but I only ask because I just completed my 2nd tri ever and it was also my second sprint tri. During my first race I passed 1 person on the run. There were only 400 people in that race, so it was a smaller race and since I had not been training long I avg'd 9:15 per mile and everybody seemed to pass me that I had passed on the bike course. No big deal, it was my first tri and I was happy with my performance. Fast forward to last weekend and I did another local tri. This one was much bigger with 1,000 athletes. It had combined sprint and olympic people in it with staggered start times. I did great on the swim and bike and get to the run and I even ran faster this time avg'ing 9:00 per mile and still only passed ONE person. Am I really that slow of a runner or is everybody else that fast? If I had to guess, I would say that no less than 60-70 people passed me on the run last week. It was very tough mentally on me. Everybody from kids to adults, men and women passed me. I know every race differs but as a person in the Male 40-44 age group, am I really a back of the pack runner when I am averaging 9:00 per mile? I was 23 out of 28 people in my age group. I am just curious about peoples thoughts.


Yes, 9:00/mile is BOP pace. I hate how fast everyone is on the run, even in local sprints! I'm in the 45-49 AG and my last tri I was happy to average 8:19/mile pace, which is decent for me in a tri-5k, but still put me close to last in my AG (9 out of 11). I'll have to get around 7:00-7:15/mile to break into even the top 50% of my AG, even in local rinky dink sprints.


2013-08-19 1:06 PM
in reply to: fisherman76

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
I did not read all the replies so sorry if I cover some of the same ground.

Your 9 minute miles are 'slow' by running standards.

That is 55 minutes over 10k. Which is often about the average time, including all the fun runners and run/walk bods.

Some of the good runners coming to a triathlon would be looking to run 6 to 6:30 minute miles. To put in a 10k time of about 36 minutes. And if the sprint tri is over 5k distance some would be going even quicker.

Great news that you are getting quicker!

Maybe look at something like this:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/site/calculator

Which help you to plan/estimate your time over different distances.
2013-08-19 1:22 PM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
I feel your pain. I'm in the same AG and it's competitive. The only thing I can say is with work it will get better. I went from 10:00 down to under 9:00 and still am working hard to get lower. Last race I did I was leading my AG going into the run and watched the first three to pass me all with low 40's on their calves and finished 5th so I know the sting. After laughing I just kept at the run trying to improve my time even though it was a bit deflating. Plus I do this for fun(at least that's what I keep telling myself). It can be mentally draining if you let it but try to use it as motivation when training.

Were you 23 of 28 overall AG or just in the run? What was your overall position?
2013-08-19 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
Originally posted by MLPFS


Were you 23 of 28 overall AG or just in the run? What was your overall position?


I was 23 out of 28 in my AG for the run and 18 out of 28 in my AG for the overall time

My stats for the overall were this:

Swim - 197 / 538
Bike - 220 / 538
Run - 330 / 538
Overall - 208 / 538

This was my 2nd tri ever and first OWS tri. I have been training for roughly 6 months, so I can't really be too upset with the numbers. I do this for fun and to be healthy but I have a competitive side to me that really wants to improve.


I wanted to thank everybody that replied so far. I am feeling much better about my results now. There was a ton of great info relayed back here and that was exactly what I was looking for.

Edited by spiderjunior 2013-08-19 1:40 PM
2013-08-19 1:52 PM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: What is considered an avg run pace per mile
To me...the 9 minute run is fast considering I'm at a 10:15 run/walk method.

I'm a solid swimmer and a decent cyclist but watch everyone that I didn't see all morning, literally blow by me on the run.

It's ok though, I will continue to improve on my running and get into the 9's and love it!

Great job on your race.

junr
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